When should contest entry photos be posted? Please read and vote.

[mbroberg]

Edit in:

A new poll on this issue has been posted here.​

Please read this post prior to voting​

The highlight of the annual Birthday Bash is the competitions that allow our creative members to showcase their abilities. Whether the contest is about pen making, casting, segmenting, photography or any other artistic endeavor the members love to show off their stuff for prizes and bragging rights. Those who do not enter the contests love to look at, and be inspired by, the entries.

There are two schools of thought about how the contest entries should be displayed. There is some correlation between how the photos of the entries are displayed and how the contests are judged. Please note that the subject of this poll is how, or more specifically when, the photos are displayed. How entries are judged (Judges or open vote) will be explored in a different poll.

There are those who believe that the photos of the entries should be hidden until the voting begins or the winners are announced. They believe that posting photos of the entries can either discourage participation of others or give someone an unfair advantage. On the one hand if a picture of a drop-dead gorgeous pen is posted early in the contest members who were intending to enter may figure there is no way they could do better and decide not to enter. On the other hand if photos are posted as soon as they are received others will know what they are competing against and have an unfair advantage. Additionally, photos of entries that are entered into the contest early in the month receive more time in the public eye than those that are entered later.

The other side of the issue believes the photos of the entries should be displayed as soon as they are received. IAP members like to look at pens and they don't want to wait until the Bash is half way over to be shown something. They figure that by displaying the photos members might be challenged and inspired to create an entry as good as, or better than those already shown. Having the photos visible encourages interaction (banter) between members.

This poll will remain open indefinitely. Future IAP contests will be influenced by the results of this poll.

 

[Ed McDonnell]

I voted for showing as soon as received, but I would shorten the window for submission. Contest rules officially released Feb 1 (or earlier). Pens submissions begin on Feb 15 and end on Feb 17. Pens displayed as submitted. Judging / voting begins on Feb 18.

Maybe stagger the contests so that some new pens are being displayed each day. The contests that focus on pens that only take an hour or so to make could have their submission / view period early in the month. More complicated pens could go later.

One thing I didn't like about holding the pens was that we went weeks with very few pens being shown on the site. Then it was like the dam burst.


Ed

 

[David M]

being impatient , i likee to see them and interact.

 

[walshjp17]

If you display the photos as they are received it may discourage others from entering IF they deem their entry as not as well made as those already submitted. I would rather see lots of entries and hear the stories behind the entries at one time than have folks deterred by early submitters.

 

[Haynie]

I agree with John. Post them all together. This way people are competing with themselves to make the best pen they can make, not the pen they feel can beat the pics already posted. It will also keep from discouraging others.

it is the due date that is the issue for me.

 

[Haynie]

Double post

 

[Spiderman]

I like seeing all the pens at the same time for each competition but agree it is like standing in front of a fire hose when they all come out at the same time. Maybe stagger the competitions, Beginners the 2nd week of the month, Intermediate the 3rd week and advanced the last week. The rules for each competition could be posted exactly one month prior to the due date.

This has the added advantage of the Beginners being able to hassle the Masters into raising their game.

Mike

 

[Buzzzz4]

I feel it should be up to the person running the event. It can be a lot of work to put up the large post of pens and it may not come out as nicely as putting up a pen with its description as they come in. It should be stated in the opening of how the pens will be displayed by the contest chair.

 

[Ed McDonnell]

I feel it should be up to the person running the event. It can be a lot of work to put up the large post of pens and it may not come out as nicely as putting up a pen with its description as they come in. It should be stated in the opening of how the pens will be displayed by the contest chair.

I have to agree with this. People who don't like how it was done this year can volunteer to put in all the hours to do it their way next year.

I'm responding to all these polls and offering opinions because I just can't help myself. But at the end of the day I respect the opinions of those who make the effort to make it all happen. Whatever they decide is fine with me.

Ed

 

[76winger]

Voted and pm sent

 

[Sylvanite]

My preference is to see the pen photos when they are entered. It's more exciting for me to see new pictures every day.

As I see it there are three potential problems with that:

1. An early post of an outstanding entry may discourage others from participating. To those, I say please come play anyway. The real prize is in stretching your skills to produce something better than you could before. That's a win no matter where your submission places. To paraphrase: "'tis better to have entered and lost, than never to have entered at all".
2. Early entries get more exposure than late ones, and the extra buzz may mean more votes (a fairness concern). If you feel this way, then get your entries in quick.
3. Early entries give others a chance to see your submission and an opportunity to one-up it (a different fairness concern). If you feel that way, then hold off your submission until near the end.

Let's examine a case in point. The color casting competion this year posted entries as they were submitted. It turned out that the first photo posted was the winner. Here are some questions:

1. Did anybody see that picture, get discouraged, and decide not to compete?
2. Do you think that the entry may have received an advantage from having been displayed longer than the others?
3. Did anybody see the photo, and then set out to make a blank to best it?

Regards,
Eric

 

[mbroberg]

I'm responding to all these polls and offering opinions because I just can't help myself.
Ed

Geeze...............I think it takes an awful lot of nerve to so blatantly vote in polls and offer opinions in threads in which I have posted a poll, encouraged people to vote in the poll, and asked for opinions. Just who do you think you are anyway???:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Ed McDonnell]

I'm just glad you aren't doing any of that rank ordered polling on any of these. It's tough enough deciding how to vote as it is.

Ed

 

[mredburn]

One thing posting pictures as they come in will do is increase the visibility of the contest though out the bash. Both from posting the picture and from the resulting comments from the members. Posting slightly larger teaser pictures than were posted might do the same thing but how do you figure out how much to reveal?

 

[Ed McDonnell]

<snip...>

[/list]Let's examine a case in point. The color casting competion this year posted entries as they were submitted. It turned out that the first photo posted was the winner. Here are some questions:

1. Did anybody see that picture, get discouraged, and decide not to compete?
2. Do you think that the entry may have received an advantage from having been displayed longer than the others?
3. Did anybody see the photo, and then set out to make a blank to best it?

Regards,
Eric

Hi Eric - I entered, so no to question 1. I don't think time displayed had anything to do with the outcome.

Question 3 is tougher to answer. I had to abandon my original plan for the casting contests. Before coming up with my plan B late in the competition, I did review all the entries that had been posted. I wanted to do something different than what had already been submitted. So I did. While I gave it my best and hoped to win, I didn't have any particular prior submission in mind as I worked.

I think question 1 is the only relevant one. Will potential competitors be scared off by early posting of great competitors? Personally, I don't understand how anybody could be, but one thing I'm not lacking in is self confidence.

For what it's worth.

Ed

 

[mredburn]

Ed it has been said in the past by others that they saw a pen entered in a contest and knew they couldnt beat it so they didnt bother to try. (Im paraphrasing) So does it discourage a few or just offer them the excuse not to enter a contest? Probably.

 

[darrin1200]

I think it would be more interactive and fun to watch as the entries unfold. Post them as they are received.

Along with that, I also think that the contest guidelines should be published well (6 months) in advance. This would let people work on and achieve their best efforts, as well as being able to enter multiple competitions.

With that much lead time, there should be no entry discouragement, because most people will already have the work done before the entry date. You could set a submission period for each competition and stagger the competitions throughout the bash. This way we should have new photos all the time.

 

[mredburn]

publishing the rules that far in advance can be tricky. We did publish the rules a couple of weeks before the Bash started, Those we knew about. Some contests were last minute go to's. However, If you have been around longer than a year you know the bash is coming. You can plan a pen years in advance if you want to . Its only the new contests that you cant preplan for. And longer build period times were given this year to aid in participation. Contests were ended after or at the end of a weekend to add time to work within. Thats a different subject though than the release and posting of pictures

 

[Brooks803]

I think they should be posted right away. Sure there could be an entry that could discourage someone from entering. What would a contest be if it weren't for competition? The way I see it is by not showing pictures of entries there's absolutely nothing to keep someone interested until the very end. If that's the case then just start the bash contests the last week of Feb. Give everyone 1 day to enter and then the next day start with voting/judging. Where's the fun in that??? The contests aren't only for the people entering but also for the majority of the members that want to watch and guess at who could win.

I've run the casting contests for the past 2 years now. I have not seen any difference from showing an entry the first day or the last. Most entries come in the final day...and even the final minute! Whether that's bc of personal obligations (work, school, family, etc.) or they want their work freshest in the public eye I have yet to see one way trump the other. This year in the color casting contest the very first entry was the 1st place winner. 2nd place came a couple days later. Similar events happened this year in the tube on and embedded object contests.

 

[skiprat]

I can't understand why anyone would be discouraged from entering having seen an earlier entry???

Surely there would be an equal amount of folks that would be ENcouraged by having seen what was already there??

I remember one particular Bash where my good buddy Jeff P entered Sponge Bob and after some great public banter, I entered a pen and called it Bob Slayer and used one of his blanks to do so!! I may not have entered any pen otherwise.
We took the mickey out of each other relentlessly and it really didn't matter who won. That was a great fun Bash.

Lets bring back the fun. We are mostly adults. Stop with the hidden poll results and post pics when the maker sends them.

Making the poll results visible only makes me look again and see what I may have missed. Why is this poll hidden for example? Do you really think we are not capable of making up our own mind? :wink::biggrin:

We don't need all these enquiries and post mortems of the Bash to find out what will work, just look at some of the great ones we've already had.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it:tongue:

 

[Smitty37]

Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I didn't look at a lot of the photos because I wasn't especially watching the competition so a couple of the contests I saw only the finalists.

IMNSHO anyone who decides to back out after seeing another entry was looking for an excuse. There isn't much that is more satisfying than beating someone who's better than you are.

I am reminded of my working days when a bunch of people played ping-pong during lunch hour. One of the players was head and shoulders above the rest of us. I played him hundreds of games and I can count on my two hands the number of games I beat him - but boy did it feel good when I did.

 

[mbroberg]

Making the poll results visible only makes me look again and see what I may have missed. Why is this poll hidden for example?

Maybe when it is all said and done I will have a "Guess the Results of the Polls Contest". The person who comes the closest to correctly predicting the outcome of all the polls gets to host next years Bash!:biggrin::biggrin:

I would have lost already. In two out of the three polls posted so far the results have been way off what I thought they would be. But they will remain open for quite awhle so that may change.

 

[Sylvanite]

The person who comes the closest to correctly predicting the outcome of all the polls gets to host next years Bash!:biggrin::biggrin:

I hear crickets :biggrin:

 

[firewhatfire]

After last year and my pen being the 1st posted in the Intermediate contest I voted to not show them.

I think seeing my pen may have discouraged others from entering.

Phil

 

[mbroberg]

Received by PM:


On the question of posting photos as the come in or not for the contest, I think keeping the entries hidden until time for the voting to begin is a good process. However it might be a good idea to post the prior years entries as "inspiration" for everyone considering an entry.

On another note, as a participant in the mug photo contest, I find myself wishing for a split in the contest where there's a category for what I'll call "straight" photos of the cup where the photo is a posed picture of it and whatever surroundings, and some photo editing done to enhance the photo, or not at the submitters discretion.

The second category would be all the obvious cut and paste photos where the cup is pasted into comical or celebrity surroundings.

Drawing the line between would be the hard part. My own entry and some others would easily be in the first category, yet this years winner could be placed in either, although with cutting & pasting necessary for that effect of fire inside would lean it towards the second category.

 

[BSea]

Received by PM:


On the question of posting photos as the come in or not for the contest, I think keeping the entries hidden until time for the voting to begin is a good process. However it might be a good idea to post the prior years entries as "inspiration" for everyone considering an entry.

I think this is an excellent idea. I also think that showing every entry at the same time is a good idea provided that the rules are made public sooner, and the 1st round starts sooner.

For example, make the rules know at the 1st of the year with the entries due Feb 5th. Start the 1st poll (if it's a polled vote) a week later, and give it 2 weeks to run. During that time the prizes could be shown a few days apart with 1st being the shown latest. This should build interest during the initial poll. The final poll could be the last week of the month. If you wanted to stagger the finals for different contest, then it could have a winner or 2 each day for a week to 10 days.

Just my 2¢. Hey, you get what you pay for.:biggrin:

 

[hunter-27]

I feel it should be up to the person running the event. It can be a lot of work to put up the large post of pens and it may not come out as nicely as putting up a pen with its description as they come in. It should be stated in the opening of how the pens will be displayed by the contest chair.

Where is the DOUBLE LIKE button when you need it. :biggrin:

 

[jttheclockman]

I voted for showing all at once. I keep hearing this banter thing. What banter??? Do you think there will be more banter if you show each pen as they come in??? Why??? you won't have a name to go with it unless that rule is changed.

Skip brought up the Jeff pen and yes people refer back to that one because of the banter of alot of people in that one who are not here any more. Again different crowd here.

I do believe people will be scared away from entering. Human nature.

 

[markgum]

Keeping the photos hid until the end allows ALL to enter. If I see something that is a clear winner posted in a couple of days.. my personal feeling is.. o'well,, maybe next year and I set the project aside. I know.. self confidence issue there but... just my 2 cents worth.

 

[mbroberg]

This poll was posted on 3/6/13. As of 3/10/13 @ 7:30pm EST 85 people have voted in this poll. I want everyone to have the opportunity to provide a vote in this poll. If you have not done so yet, why not take a second and cast a vote?

 

[mbroberg]

94 members voted in this poll. By an impressive margin, "photos should be hidden from public view until all entries can be displayed at the same time" won. So that is how we will do it. :wink:

 

[skiprat]

Wow, I was shocked and amazed by that result....:redface:


:biggrin:....but then I had another look and it seems you misread the vote Mike :tongue:

 

[mbroberg]

Wow, I was shocked and amazed by that result....:redface:


:biggrin:....but then I had another look and it seems you misread the vote Mike :tongue:

Are you sure you aren't really from Chicago?

I was surprised by the margin.

 

[Buzzzz4]

I still think it should be up to the person running the contest and clearly stated in the contest how photos will work.

 

[Brooks803]

94 members voted in this poll. By an impressive margin, "photos should be hidden from public view until all entries can be displayed at the same time" won. So that is how we will do it. :wink:

So is this how all contests are going to run from now on?

 

[mbroberg]

94 members voted in this poll. By an impressive margin, "photos should be hidden from public view until all entries can be displayed at the same time" won. So that is how we will do it. :wink:

So is this how all contests are going to run from now on?

This is how all contests will be run in the foreseeable future. At some point member sentiment may change. As of right now this is what they want so this is what they will get.

 

[skiprat]

Mike, please give me the names and addresses of those ......s that voted this in.
My 'friend' Vinnie -two fingers-Scarletti would like to pay them a visit





Ps: Smilies not available on a Kindle

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I would be willing to bet that after next years bash people will change their minds.

 

[hunter-27]

94 members voted in this poll. By an impressive margin, "photos should be hidden from public view until all entries can be displayed at the same time" won. So that is how we will do it. :wink:

So is this how all contests are going to run from now on?

This is how all contests will be run in the foreseeable future. At some point member sentiment may change. As of right now this is what they want so this is what they will get.

Unfortunately too many "rules" about how a contest chair must run their contest may lead to a further shortage of those willing to chair the contest. :frown:

 

[Buzzzz4]

94 members voted in this poll. By an impressive margin, "photos should be hidden from public view until all entries can be displayed at the same time" won. So that is how we will do it. :wink:

So is this how all contests are going to run from now on?

This is how all contests will be run in the foreseeable future. At some point member sentiment may change. As of right now this is what they want so this is what they will get.

Unfortunately too many "rules" about how a contest chair must run their contest may lead to a further shortage of those willing to chair the contest. :frown:

You took the words right out of my mouth.