Is it ethical to write a tutorial?

[Ric5]

Secrets, tips, tutorials videos.... Ahhhhhh now I will master the world! Me and my pens are going take over the planet!

Please! There are tens of thousands of pen turners, for most of us we just would like to make enough to pay for the hobby. The FEW Stella artists that actually make a living I have found are kind and willing to share their methods. Sharing what we have learned is what I love about fellow pen turners!

 

[maxwell_smart007]

If you want to look at the true 'ethics', here's where it sits...

You made a pen - it's yours
you have a process - it's yours
your inspiration was from someone else, however...

Mind you, all library articles come from people who were inspired by other pens and showed their ideas....

Thus, the pen and process is yours, but the idea is not.

It comes down to your own judgement, not the opinions of those of us who'd like to see your methods!

 

[beck3906]

There are no new ideas...just recycled ones that we havent been shown yet...carry on and teach!

No new ideas? Really?

 

[switch62]

And for the comments that those selling these style pens won't be affected.....

I wouldn't doubt that they originators wouldn't be affected. The problem is that tutorials make I easy for someone to copy ideas and then sell them heir selves. Suddenly, the market is flooded with copycats. And often at lessor prices.

Once a pen has been seen then there is the potential that someone will copy the design. Every time I see a new design I think "how would I make that?" and I would figure out a way. A tutorial would make it easier, but I would try and do it better. (better = my way ) But then again,
Do I have the skill?
Do I have the equipment?
Do I have the time?
Will the quality be as good?
Will I make money from it?
Do I really want to make it?

Many pen makers will have designs never shared on IAP for this very concern. You can think this as being wrong. This is being realistic in having a unique product customers will come back to you for.

That's their choice. But once it's out of the workshop and into the real world someone may reverse engineer it and then make their own. It is a commercial reality. If you can't protect it with patents, copyright, etc. and it makes money, some one will copy it.

TonyO

 

[maxwell_smart007]

There are no new ideas...just recycled ones that we havent been shown yet...carry on and teach!

No new ideas? Really?

Since we're in a philosophy thread, that's just begging for a discussion of epistemology and Plato's theory of the Forms.

To Plato (way back in ancient Athens), there were no new ideas, just recollections of the perfect Idea (Form) of what we were experiencing, which was innately held within our own minds from birth...

I.E. - a circle reminded us of the true Form of our circle, which we had in our minds from birth (argument for souls) - and a beautiful pen is reflective of the form of Beauty.

So to the ancient Platonic thinkers, there were no new ideas - just things we already knew at some point, waiting to be rediscovered!

Now we're 2000 years later - and there are still no new ideas!

Mind you, this is before coffee and my having driven home until the wee hours last night, so perhaps I'm not making any sense at all. (just like most philosophy classes!)

Andrew

 

[alphageek]

Mind you, this is before coffee and my having driven home until the wee hours last night, so perhaps I'm not making any sense at all. (just like most philosophy classes!)

Andrew

Dude... You just reminded me why I was an engineering major and math minor. I think i took ONE philosophy class in college! And that may have been one to many for me! :biggrin:

 

[arioux]

This is one of the question in the daily bash . What is IAP mission:

Mission Statement:
The International Association of Penturners (IAP) is an organization that recognizes pen making as a craft with unique and distinctive character. Pen making encompasses a vast array of techniques, materials, technical knowledge, and novel approaches to produce a functional, aesthetically appealing writing instrument. The goal of the IAP is to give pen makers a place to enhance their skills, share experiences, and promote the art of pen making.

I specially like the part that says " share experience".

May the site mission be with you !

 

[beck3906]

My final thoughts, I promise. :wink:

My whole purpose is to raise awareness that folks earn some amount of income from their pen sales. Sharing thoughts raise question as to taking sales away from those folks.

Some turners have tried copyrighting their designs. The legal battles they face protecting their copyrights can be costly. And yes, we can only protect our designs until someone sees it in public and another pen turner looks at the design.

Those who eagerly seek the release of a tutorial further the speed of a design becoming public. It's not too bad if someone works on the reverse engineering and makes it their own as we gain from that person's attempts at making it better.

There was another thread recently where the OP was asked to provide a tutorial on their work. I've watched that thread and haven't seen the tutorial. What I did see was the concept become commercially released. Will the OP of that thread be willing to release a tutorial and cut into commercial sales?

Enough said from me. I know my voice will be weaker than the dozens wanting the tutorial. Again, I wanted to raise the opposing voice as this subject will again be raised when someone wants to protect their design.

 

[ironman123]

My final thought as well.

Rick, I do understand your reasoning on this and I thought about that when I voiced my personal opinion but in thinking more of this as a hobby and a craft to be carried on in future generations outweighing thoughts of loss of personal gain of a few, I had to make my choice like I did.

Ray

 

[CabinetMaker]

I am fascinated by how the ash is made for a cigar pen and I would love to learn how to do it. Odds are, I'll never make one. But like with other tutorials, I may learn something that helps me realize one of my own ideas. I think that is the value of tutorials. We can learn techniques that help us and inspire us with our own ideas.

The flip side of that coin is, of course, that your techniques and ideas can be flat out stolen.

 

[jttheclockman]

Rick

Just like everyone here you are entitled to your opinion. I read your arguments but do not agree with them. First and foremost it is not out of line to ask for a tutorial. It is up to the person who created the pen if they want to give one. It is also not right at all to badger someone with PM messages and call them names because they did not want to do a tutorial. That person should be reported and dismissed from this site with no warnings. This has caused several members to leave the site and I must say they are sorely missed.

Anything that hits the market is subject to be copied. It is fact so face it. We as a society need guidance and we get it from various sources. What we do with this guidance is up to each individual. You make it sound like tutorials on this site is going to put pen makers in the dumps and sales will fall drastically. I don't sell to the same clients that Roy sells to or anyone else does. I do not visit the same shows that he does or anyone else. ( Roy just an example, nothing meaning there) My point is what makes you say that??? Blanks are copied here all the time and sold.

Again it is up to the individual to decide if they want to do a tutorial and it is nobody's business to tell them not to or to do one.

I think we all got away from the OP main question and I refer back to my answer as it is up to him and not us so don't ask us.

 

[beck3906]

Wow, too many thoughts for me to let this go.

The one who made the cigar pens popular has a strong Internet presence. I've looked at other sites and have seen folks who have copied them and now offer cigar pens. The internet makes me a competitor to everyone with a website. I don't have to attend the same shows for us to compete.

In looking at various sites, I see folks who have copied blanks that are commercially available. That includes resin, laser, wood/resin combos and others. And when we say copied, it may not be an exact replica, but it takes the thought.

Where I see a tutorial written is when someone has an original thought, although it's been stated there are no original thoughts. There have been threads where it was described how to make the ash. The next tutorial should not say how to make the ash, but how their idea improves on making the ash. Don't give instructions again on making the ash but pick up on "After making the ash, then......" .

BTW...
I'm waiting for the day Berea decides to protect their trademarked kit names. We could see some excitement then.

Finally, I would offer this to the moderators and IAP staff who've joined this thread. Use caution in offering thoughts as you could be seen as loosing your objectivity. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong...just that your position requires you to stay an arm's length away from discussions or we'll need to call the big guys in.,

 

[alphageek]

Rick,

Just a point on your last statement. Remember that the mods are members and turners too. Our position does not mean that we are not allowed to weigh in with our personal thoughts.

 

[NewLondon88]

My final thoughts, I promise. :wink:

My whole purpose is to raise awareness that folks earn some amount of income from their pen sales. Sharing thoughts raise question as to taking sales away from those folks.

Some turners have tried copyrighting their designs. The legal battles they face protecting their copyrights can be costly. And yes, we can only protect our designs until someone sees it in public and another pen turner looks at the design.

Those who eagerly seek the release of a tutorial further the speed of a design becoming public. It's not too bad if someone works on the reverse engineering and makes it their own as we gain from that person's attempts at making it better.

There was another thread recently where the OP was asked to provide a tutorial on their work. I've watched that thread and haven't seen the tutorial. What I did see was the concept become commercially released. Will the OP of that thread be willing to release a tutorial and cut into commercial sales?

Enough said from me. I know my voice will be weaker than the dozens wanting the tutorial. Again, I wanted to raise the opposing voice as this subject will again be raised when someone wants to protect their design.

I see exactly what you're saying. I'm of a similar mind.
"Sharing experiences" is not the same as being bullied or cajoled into
releasing information that you'd like to keep to yourself.. information
someone may have come by at great cost in time, labor, materials,
research and development etc. Mandatory sharing is communism.

I can't even tell you how many things you will never see on IAP because
of the casual attitude about intellectual property. Many times on the
phone, in email or even in person.. I've said to someone "You should
post that!" and the answer I get is "What are you, nuts?"
So many names you don't see here anymore.. so many innovations that
need to be kept quiet. You can't keep peeing in the pool and then
complain about the quality of the water.

How many designs have you seen here first, only to find copies in a
catalog 6 months later? (with no compensation or even acknowledgement
to the originator?) Eventually, people just stop showing their stuff.

You can say 'It happens .. deal with it" .. but I'll just say to you
"then don't bitch about it when nobody wants to share with you anymore"

There is no question that someone's hard work and worth are
diluted by copies. Some people don't mind that. Some do. The hard
part for the group is respecting both viewpoints.

 

[NewLondon88]

The flip side of that coin is, of course, that your techniques and ideas can be flat out stolen.

True .. but should they be stolen by a group of people you consider friends?

(pardon me, I got a new pot stirrer for my birthday!)

 

[NewLondon88]

Sharing ones knowledge is something that has to be freely given and should be. Not all people feel this way because they think they are owed something for what time they put into a specific process or method and if they make a living doing whatever it is then by all means keep their secrets but do not deny someone else from sharing what looks like what they do if that person wants too share.

Feel free to share.

Sharing your knowledge is great. Sharing someone else's techniques is not.

Has nobody paid attention to China for the last 75 years?

 

[beck3906]

Rick,

Just a point on your last statement. Remember that the mods are members and turners too. Our position does not mean that we are not allowed to weigh in with our personal thoughts.

I do understand, but this could develop into a sensitive subject.

It's difficult to punish the kids for throwing sand when you're playing in the sandbox with them.

 

[BRobbins629]

The real secrets of profits have nothing to do with how to make a pen. Many have shown us it more about how you sell them than how you make them if all you are interested in is making money. In this case, not only does the elephant in the room cigar illusion maker make them well, he also has established a very good marketing campaign. I have no idea what his sales are, but if I wanted to copy him, I would copy his sales methods rather than his technique. How to make them, I can figure out by myself along with many others. For those like me who rarely sell a pen and get more enjoyment form making them, the tutorials are more like voyeurism. I like demos and tutorials and usually learn from them whether or not I attempt to replicate them. Teach on...

 

[alphageek]

I do understand, but this could develop into a sensitive subject.

It's difficult to punish the kids for throwing sand when you're playing in the sandbox with them.

Except in this case, if we aren't allowed to play in the sandbox, we wouldn't be here at all. All of the mods and managers are members first.

( and we are pretty good about separating our playing from our other duties - so I wouldn't be too concerned)

 

[Ed McDonnell]

I find myself wondering how many people, who complain about their ideas being stolen, have been inspired by or borrowed other peoples ideas to get to the point where they have developed an "original" (at least to them) idea that others might find worthy of borrowing or using as an inspiration. Those who were happy to take, but were not willing to give back were probably not going to hang around once they had taken all that was available anyway. Whether somebody copied them or not.

There have been some very talented and very generous (with their knowledge) people on this site. I still see them posting. I'm not sure who has gone missing. Guess I haven't been around long enough.

If an idea is easy to copy and cheap to make, then it is naive to think somebody won't eventually copy it and offer it cheaper than your original pricing. Whether you show it here or not. The fiercest competitors are the ones who constantly innovate and stay ahead of their competition with new ideas.

Ed

 

[beck3906]

Hmmmm.......

Doc doesn't post as frequently as he was. It could be he's just been busy and having fun making things.

What happened to Timebandit? A talent that hasn't been seen lately.

And yes, there were several before your time joining.

And we've been fortunate to haven a couple rejoin but it took a lot of work to convince them things had changed.

Toni doesn't show her work as frequently as she did.

And how many remember Gary Max? Another talent that probably won't return.

 

[Ed McDonnell]

Hi Rick - I wonder if some of the ones you mention don't show as much anymore because they aren't doing anything new these days? Some may have built a customer base that buys as much as they can produce of their current creations and they don't need the free advertising anymore. Once they come up with a new product that needs promoting to develop a customer base they might be back and posting again.

Then there is always the possibility that some have moved beyond making pens and are pursuing other interests. Or they've achieved so much commercial success with their pens that they don't have time for socializing on the forums anymore.

I have a lot of different interests and participate in a lot of different forums.
By my observation, they best forums are dynamic. In most of them there is a small handful of members who have been there from the beginning. Most of the members are transient. They come and they go. Recognized talent is periodically lost, but new talent is frequently gained. The most vibrant and interesting forums are the ones where ideas are freely and frequently shared. The forums where making money becomes the primary focus of the members seem to wither and die in short order.

Ed

 

[NewLondon88]

The most vibrant and interesting forums are the ones where ideas are freely and frequently shared. The forums where making money becomes the primary focus of the members seem to wither and die in short order.

Ed

You present those two ideas as if they are diametrically opposed. Are
you saying that we either share all of our ideas and the forum flourishes
or we are all money grubbing capitalist pigs?

Or are you saying that if anyone is looking to profit by their hard work,
they don't belong in a related forum?

 

[NewLondon88]

Rick .. I wasn't trying to get people to figure out a puzzle.
In fact, some still post here, they just hold their cards a
little closer to the vest.

 

[beck3906]

Some of the thoughts about why a tutorial is needed is for those members yet to join, say those in the 2-5 year out timeframe. We can save them a lot of time by documenting what we've done.

So, if there are no new ideas, just recycled ones, let's get it all documented and close things down. There won't be anything for folks 5 years from now to do. :biggrin:

 

[NewLondon88]

So, if there are no new ideas, just recycled ones, let's get it all documented and close things down. There won't be anything for folks 5 years from now to do. :biggrin:

LOL .. the IAP could be reduced to a series of PDF's.

Look, I'm not telling anyone to do anything, or not to do anything..
.. except perhaps think beyond "this is what I want"
This happens everywhere. Can I change it? No. Doesn't mean I
have to like it, or have to keep quiet when I feel it isn't right.
But it surprises me when I see these threads. It surprises me because
for the most part people here show concern when this happens on a
larger scale. Again, look at China. For the last several decades they have
made it a national practice to take other's ideas and monetize them.
Tens of millions of jobs have gone overseas, never to come back.
How did they do this? They copied what they saw and sold it cheaper
and diluted the value of the products and changed the market.
This is the same thing, only on a different scale.

Those that want to share their own work should be free to do so, and
will get a lot of thanks. But I think that sharing someone else's ideas
or techniques (even justifying it by calling it your own method of
doing the same thing) is grossly unfair and it does hurt the innovators.
They don't often make that mistake again.. and we all suffer for that.

 

[CharlesJohnson]

To those who are down on sharing. I have never seen anyone say "Make a tutorial or we will.... I don't think you have either. I have only seen your mannerly declining or just not answering being accepted in kind. Even just excepted, other wise. I don't remember anyone saying "you must'. Even if,or with out , I see a request for a tutorial as stated appreciation of your accomplishment. Please concider this." Thank you for the complement." And leave it there. Sharply responding only comes across to me as expression of your feelings of guilt in you response. I know. This will probaly be seen as cause for more of the same by many. But I care enough for you to take that for your sake. I would never say "You must" with out adding some thing like LOL.Because some would not take it as the complement intended.
These things said, it is obvious how I feel on this subject. I definitely support those who have ideas they don't want to share. Legally theirs or not. I don't care. If not legally, don't complain when we figure out our own way. Even if we share it . It is our own way. As for those who have angryly left because of being given given the complement of being asked for help so we can do as well,I' m sorry we lost them. I would like to know and aprecciate them as well as I feel I do of so many here. I have had many ideas that others have made a lot of money on. I know!!! I have seen a lot of them make big. But I had the same right to the same patent. Doesn't matter I couldn't afford the pattent, or backing it up. Thank you Any And "ALL" whither adivce, hints or other wise. And for making our special topic 'so' much fun to learn more of. All the funny postings, interesting ones , and especially making a caring cummunity where members feel at ease speaking of their hardships. Knowing you care. I beleive peaple we appreciate should hear it accasionally. Forgive me if I say these things to often. I don't mean to.

 

[plantman]

Rick; From reading this thread and your conserns, I have come up with these conclusion. You think the majority of this sites members are thieves because they use other people's ideas that are posted for all to see. We are all lazy because we use tutorals to gain knowledge. Knowledge should not be shared because it may cost one or two people a pen sale or two. Moderators should not be able to express their personal ideas because of their positions. Than you go as far as to threaten them with reprimand from Big Brother. Now you go on to say " My final thoughts, I PROMISE ", yet I see at lest four more tweats from you on the subject. Your answers, along with New London 88's, are getting farther and farther away from the original question. You had the right to express your opinion, but when you call other people names and threaten our moderators, you don't belong on this site !!! I think it's time to shut this puppy down !!! Jim S

 

[CabinetMaker]

The flip side of that coin is, of course, that your techniques and ideas can be flat out stolen.

True .. but should they be stolen by a group of people you consider friends?

(pardon me, I got a new pot stirrer for my birthday!)

Friends, no. Lurkers, maybe.

 

[CharlesJohnson]

As for our staff, they are first and for most, valued and appreciated members. And they are really good to us. Both as members "and" staff!!!

 

[Dwayne Gettleman]

Write and teach away

I am fairly new to the hobby. Any new information or lessons I can learn is great. I say write and teach away, Thanks

 

[eliasbboy]

I would welcome a tutorial. Even if I never attempt the EXACT pen shown, I always learn SOMETHING from tutorials.

As far as the ethics involved, it's not as if the answers to many questions regarding these pens haven't been given already. I've seen a ton of info given freely by many different creators of these pens. Your tutorial would be a great gift in putting many of those facts together in one spot.

Just my two cents.

 

[beck3906]

Okay, time to chill a bit. Let's break this down further.

Rick; From reading this thread and your conserns, I have come up with these conclusion. You think the majority of this sites members are thieves because they use other people's ideas that are posted for all to see.

Don't know where you came up with that conclusion. There have been ideas stolen and used by others, both commercially and privately. I often think of Curtis having posted his tutorial on Worthless Wood and think of how far that has been taken. And Curtis isn't even recognized for the contribution or the name.

We are all lazy because we use tutorals to gain knowledge.

Many people are like water or electricity in that they follow the path of least resistance. If a tutorial can make their life easier in getting to the result, so be it. There's no advancement of knowledge until someone goes beyond the original idea.

Knowledge should not be shared because it may cost one or two people a pen sale or two.

How many sales has copying cost Curtis? Or John U? And the list goes on.

Moderators should not be able to express their personal ideas because of their positions.

I didn't say that. Moderators and IAP staff should be cautious in what they say in threads as the thread sometimes requires moderation. If they've participated, it may take someone else to moderate the thread.

Than you go as far as to threaten them with reprimand from Big Brother.

Oh, that was a book I remember reading.

Now you go on to say " My final thoughts, I PROMISE ", yet I see at lest four more tweats from you on the subject.

Missed the winky face, huh.

Your answers, along with New London 88's, are getting farther and farther away from the original question.

No they're not, I'm just voicing an opinion that's bothered me for quite some time. I finally feel it's time for me to air the laundry.
For me, it gets really old to regularly hear people ask for tutorials. The voices asking can sometimes drive our membership away rather than deal with the harassment of being asked how to do something.


You had the right to express your opinion, but when you call other people names and threaten our moderators, you don't belong on this site !!!

I reread my posts and don't see where I called anyone names or threatened the moderators. I did see you Liking most all posts that agreed with your view point.

I think it's time to shut this puppy down !!!

Yep, it's about bedtime. :biggrin:

Jim S

Oh, and I missed one.

It was suggested that I've copied something. Hmmmm......
Don't know that I have. I use wood, acrylics, and blanks I buy. If making a Texas flag laser pen from a kit is copying, then mark me quilty. I cannot recall seeing some else's work and duplicating that.

But I'm about to. I saw someone had a Jr Gent pen that had a black cap and a white lower body. Sharp!!!! I want to make one.

The closest I've come to making my own segmented blanks is putting ooppps bands on problem pens. Bought all segmented blanks I sell.

Never cast my own blanks. Brooks and El Mostro do that too well for me to start anytime soon. But I may try later this year to see what al the hub-bub is all about.

And casting blanks with stuff in them? CaptG and Seamus do that very well for me. So, I don't know what I'll do with the baggies of watch parts I bought.

I can only paint the walls of the house, so I bought painted blanks from Classic.

I thought about getting the local nail salon to paint me a few tubes and trying to cast them. I could knock out a couple of firsts that way. :biggrin:

 

[eliasbboy]

Rick,

Just a point on your last statement. Remember that the mods are members and turners too. Our position does not mean that we are not allowed to weigh in with our personal thoughts.

I do understand, but this could develop into a sensitive subject.

It's difficult to punish the kids for throwing sand when you're playing in the sandbox with them.

I'm relatively new here, so forgive my two cents.

I'm a moderator on a different site and most moderators start off as members. The rules of a forum do not change once a moderator posts in a thread.

Your concern would only be valid if the moderators were breaking rules they are meant to enforce. Stating opinions or discussing the topic at hand is pretty much in the job description.

 

[eliasbboy]

The process we're talking about here is amazing, and artistic, and completely over my head at this point in time, but just from the few threads I've read about them I know the basics.

I'm confident that I could spend time and learn myself. If anyone wants to attempt one, I would find it hard to believe the existence or non existence of a tutorial would be the deciding factor.

 

[jtdesigns]

I could always do that tutorial on watch part pens:biggrin:...just kidding couldnt resist after i have been gone from this site for so long. Good to catch up on things.

 

[plantman]

Okay, time to chill a bit. Let's break this down further.

Rick; From reading this thread and your conserns, I have come up with these conclusion. You think the majority of this sites members are thieves because they use other people's ideas that are posted for all to see.

Don't know where you came up with that conclusion. There have been ideas stolen and used by others, both commercially and privately. I often think of Curtis having posted his tutorial on Worthless Wood and think of how far that has been taken. And Curtis isn't even recognized for the contribution or the name.

We are all lazy because we use tutorals to gain knowledge.

Many people are like water or electricity in that they follow the path of least resistance. If a tutorial can make their life easier in getting to the result, so be it. There's no advancement of knowledge until someone goes beyond the original idea.

Knowledge should not be shared because it may cost one or two people a pen sale or two.

How many sales has copying cost Curtis? Or John U? And the list goes on.

Moderators should not be able to express their personal ideas because of their positions.

I didn't say that. Moderators and IAP staff should be cautious in what they say in threads as the thread sometimes requires moderation. If they've participated, it may take someone else to moderate the thread.

Than you go as far as to threaten them with reprimand from Big Brother.

Oh, that was a book I remember reading.

Now you go on to say " My final thoughts, I PROMISE ", yet I see at lest four more tweats from you on the subject.

Missed the winky face, huh.

Your answers, along with New London 88's, are getting farther and farther away from the original question.

No they're not, I'm just voicing an opinion that's bothered me for quite some time. I finally feel it's time for me to air the laundry.
For me, it gets really old to regularly hear people ask for tutorials. The voices asking can sometimes drive our membership away rather than deal with the harassment of being asked how to do something.


You had the right to express your opinion, but when you call other people names and threaten our moderators, you don't belong on this site !!!

I reread my posts and don't see where I called anyone names or threatened the moderators. I did see you Liking most all posts that agreed with your view point.

I think it's time to shut this puppy down !!!

Yep, it's about bedtime. :biggrin:

Jim S

Oh, and I missed one.

It was suggested that I've copied something. Hmmmm......
Don't know that I have. I use wood, acrylics, and blanks I buy. If making a Texas flag laser pen from a kit is copying, then mark me quilty. I cannot recall seeing some else's work and duplicating that.

But I'm about to. I saw someone had a Jr Gent pen that had a black cap and a white lower body. Sharp!!!! I want to make one.

The closest I've come to making my own segmented blanks is putting ooppps bands on problem pens. Bought all segmented blanks I sell.

Never cast my own blanks. Brooks and El Mostro do that too well for me to start anytime soon. But I may try later this year to see what al the hub-bub is all about.

And casting blanks with stuff in them? CaptG and Seamus do that very well for me. So, I don't know what I'll do with the baggies of watch parts I bought.

I can only paint the walls of the house, so I bought painted blanks from Classic.

I thought about getting the local nail salon to paint me a few tubes and trying to cast them. I could knock out a couple of firsts that way. :biggrin:

Sounds to me like everyone else does all the hard work for you and you just turn it round and make the profit. Where are you progressing on that path???
I did not quote anyone's elses thread, only yours.
After I left the site earlier, I went down in the shop to see how hard it would be to make the cigar pen you are so excited about. No tutorials, no photos, just the image of a cigar in my head. I have never made a cigar pen before, nor have I wanted to. It seems the big deal is making the ash look realistic. It took me about 5 minutes to figure out what I needed, and another 15 to make it. And I bet the method I used is one you have never seen or thought of, and even the most novice penturner can do it. Now if I can figure out how to do this in that short of time, anybody can, and it's a whole new method of doing it !!! Your red answers aren't worth answering as you don't seem to understand what you typed in the first place !!
Oh and I forgot one. I didn't say you copyed anything. I don't even know what your turnings look like since you have ZERO in the photo section. Best keep your work safe !! Jim S
P.S. I also looked up the word promise in the dictionary, and there was no smiley face folowing it. Even if there was, I don't think it would change the meaning.

 

[eliasbboy]

Sounds to me like everyone else does all the hard work for you and you just turn it round and make the profit. Where are you progressing on that path???
I did not quote anyone's elses thread, only yours.
After I left the site earlier, I went down in the shop to see how hard it would be to make the cigar pen you are so excited about. No tutorials, no photos, just the image of a cigar in my head. I have never made a cigar pen before, nor have I wanted to. It seems the big deal is making the ash look realistic. It took me about 5 minutes to figure out what I needed, and another 15 to make it. And I bet the method I used is one you have never seen or thought of, and even the most novice penturner can do it. Now if I can figure out how to do this in that short of time, anybody can, and it's a whole new method of doing it !!!
Oh and I forgot one. I didn't say you copyed anything. I don't even know what your turnings look like since you have nothing in the photo section. Jim S

Can you post a tutorial of that please?

Thanks in advance.

...sorry. I couldn't resist.:biggrin:

 

[plantman]

Yes I could !! Jim S

 

[MesquiteMan]

OK guys, head moderator here...it is far time to cool the embers a little. Let's please lay off the snappy, rude comments to each other. It is not fitting for IAP and has no place here. Thank you.