Question for Label Casters

[NewLondon88]

I saw a pen the other day that really started my gears turning. Someone had
cast a label and put a name on the lower barrel of a pen. (I think engraving
ruins the pen, but that's just me)

So I read up on it, made up some labels on Avery 8354 (that's all they had)
figured out the size (lets' see .. 10mm tube .. pi times the radius squared..)
used silver tubes, white text and logo on black label. Tubes looked good.

Stopped at 3 Wal-Marts and none of them had popsicle ice cube trays.
Best I could do was some Jumbo plastic knitting needles. Cut them down to
size and put balloons on the bottoms. Mixed the resin, poured and put in
the tubes.

I forgot to get cork, so I took some dowels and cut tapers on them instead. Worked fine.
I put a Band-Aid across the top of the tube to hold down the floating tube
and put a sewing needle through the Band-Aid and into the top of the
dowel to stop any lateral movement.

But how do you stop the BOTTOM tube from moving??

The casting actually looks good! I popped them out after a couple of hours
and they look just fine except they're canted out to the edge on the
bottom, so I can't use them.

What obvious thing did I miss?

 

[rherrell]

I glue thin pieces of wood to the corks, dowels in your case, to keep everything centered. I use rectangular silicone molds and cut the little wood pieces just a tad larger than the mold so they're a pressure fit. This keeps them from floating up.

 

[NewLondon88]

Yeah . when I get my rectangle molds I'll probably do something like that too.
These are vertical cylinders so I'll need to figure something.
I'm itching to turn one!:tongue:

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

I believe you are referring to the pen I posted:

My process:

- Powder coated the tubes black.
- Made a templete to cut out the label (

.

:wink
- Using Word I printed the label on Avery 8xxx (I'll fill in the xxx when I get home) labels.
- Used Needle point protectors purchased at Walmart as reusable end plugs:

- Used BBs in the tubes to help hold them down
- Used center-drilled pennies and toothpicks to hold the tube in one of Gadgets silicone 3/4" x ??? molds
- Used 3 drops/oz of mekp in clear resin.
- Cast in a pressure pot under 20 pounds of pressure.

Alternatively you could use the round ice tube trays found at Walmar and cast the tubes in a standing positon using the center drilled pennies and toothpicks. I can shoot pics of both and post them if you are interested. Let me know.

 

[rcflyer23]

Is there a tutuorial on casting labels anywhere? I have looked here and just can't find anything specific to it. I am probably just not looking in the right place. I want to do something similar but with Cigar Bands for my brother but want to make sure I do things correctly.

 

[thewishman]

Yes, Scott, please post pictures!

 

[NewLondon88]

Is there a tutuorial on casting labels anywhere? I have looked here and just can't find anything specific to it. I am probably just not looking in the right place. I want to do something similar but with Cigar Bands for my brother but want to make sure I do things correctly.

There's even a thread (with pics) of someone casting cigar bands .. and
even the whole cigar. I think if you search on it, it will come up. I know I
found it when searching for label casting.

 

[pentex]

Scott, please show how you use the pennies and toothpicks. Thanks.

 

[NewLondon88]

I believe you are referring to the pen I posted:

Yep.

My process:

- Powder coated the tubes black.
- Made a templete to cut out the label (

.

:wink

Yeah yeah.... :tongue: pi x diameter, not radius squared. I'm surprised anyone
caught it. I didn't think of it till after I posted it. But I got it right anyway..
I primed some tubes and sprayed them white for my next set. The white
tends to dull down and darken after casting.

- Using Word I printed the label on Avery 8xxx (I'll fill in the xxx when I get home) labels.
- Used Needle point protectors purchased at Walmart as reusable end plugs:

- Used BBs in the tubes to help hold them down
- Used center-drilled pennies and toothpicks to hold the tube in one of Gadgets silicone 3/4" x ??? molds
- Used 3 drops/oz of mekp in clear resin.
- Cast in a pressure pot under 20 pounds of pressure.

Good idea on the BB's and the needle protectors. I only tried it once last
night and I did a quick turn and sand this morning on a blank that wasn't
usable .. just to see how it turned. The Castin Craft turns just fine.

I used 5 drops per 2.5 oz .. seemed to work OK. I didn't cast under
pressure because it was only a test, and bubbles weren't my concern..
but the label and color bleed were.

I found the 8254 labels stuck well to an unsanded tube, and rolling the
tube with the label on a mouse pad worked well. Couldn't cut away the
overlap though .. it peels the label in layers.

Alternatively you could use the round ice tube trays found at Walmar and
cast the tubes in a standing positon using the center drilled pennies and
toothpicks. I can shoot pics of both and post them if you are interested.
Let me know.

I appreciate it. I couldn't find those trays anywhere. I hit about 10 stores
over the weekend, including 3 WalMarts. Perhaps it is a seasonal thing.

The plastic knitting needles work fine, though. In addition to being more
straight (not tapered) the added advantage is that you can push the
blank from the bottom end.

I think I'll use duct tape on the bottom and stick the cork or dowel to that
to hold it in place. Then once I secure the top, there's no reason for the
bottom to move. Plus, the BB's will help..:biggrin:

Now, I just gotta see if I still have that Alps printer in storage.. that one
will use metallic ribbons so I can get the gold lettering I need...

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

Is there a tutuorial on casting labels anywhere? I have looked here and just can't find anything specific to it. I am probably just not looking in the right place. I want to do something similar but with Cigar Bands for my brother but want to make sure I do things correctly.

I had one in the works, but due to copy right infringment considerations on the graphic I was using I took the article down. I will take new pics using a non-copyrighted graphic and post a tutorial soon.

Jeff, would it be alright to use the IAP logo in my tutorial?

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

As Promised:

Labels: Avery 8253

Pictures of the Pennies:

Pennies with center holes drilled in them and toothpicks:

A tube with Needle protectors as plugs and pennies as an offset for use in a silicone tray:

Tube with penny offsets in a silicone mold:

Tube with penny/toothpick offsets for ice cube tray:

Take the top penny off. Place the bottom penny, tube, plugs and top toothpick into the ice cube tray. Pour the resin around the tube:

Slide the top penny over the protruding toothpick to keep the tube centered in the ice cube tray:

The needle protectors already have holes in the center of them and if you are careful in the removal, reusable.

Hope this helps and starts you down the path. Once you get the process down the possibilities are limitless:

In additon to labels you can cast colored resin directly to the tube and come up with things like this:

 

[el_d]

pretty sweet Scott, Do you have to drill new pennies for every cast?

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

pretty sweet Scott, Do you have to drill new pennies for every cast?

No. If the pennies get too much PR on them I soak them in acetone.

 

[jason_r]

As Promised:

Labels: Avery 8253

You use a white label? Since you'd said you powdercoated them I expected
you would use a clear label.

 

[wood-of-1kind]

But how do you stop the BOTTOM tube from moving??

I use delrin casting pots and by inserting a dowel through a wooden circle manage to "centre" the label casting as it sets in my pressure pot. Using these pots is very cost effective since very little of the resin goes to waste. The round casting shape makes it easier to turn as opposed to a "square" casting.

 

[NewLondon88]

I would post pics to show how I got the bottom tube not to move..

.. except I forgot the BB's. They DID move. And the duct tape didn't work
so well to seal the bottom, either. I gotta find those ice cube trays..
And I have to figure out how to get the can of resin open after the first use.
And I have to figure out how to get my printer not to resize things for me.
Only a little, but just enough to muck it up. I'd rather not have to much
overlap on the seam.

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

You use a white label? Since you'd said you powdercoated them I expected
you would use a clear label.

I started out with the white labels before I had my powder coating rig. Once I run out of these labels I may look into clear.

As a side note on powder coating, the HF powder coat system I have works, but if I were to buy another one I would buy it from Eastwood.

.. except I forgot the BB's. They DID move. And the duct tape didn't work
so well to seal the bottom, either. I gotta find those ice cube trays..

That is what I like about using pennies; they are part of the solution and not part of the problem. The pennies help act as weights, not bobbers like the cork and wood set-ups. For label casting I normally go with the silicone mould that I got from Gadget. I find it easier to pour the resin without introducing bubbles.

I will swing by my WalMart today after work and see if they still have some of the trays. If they do I will pick some up and get your address...

...I I'd rather not have to much
overlap on the seam.

Not too much, but I have found that I need some overlap. If I cut the label so the edges just touch and don't overlap, the label lifts off the tube when I am casting it. :frown:

 

[PaulDoug]

Scott, thanks for the great pictures and instructions. Questions, do you put that in a pressure pot? I mean do you use pressure when you cast in the ice cube tray?

 

[jason_r]

I started out with the white labels before I had my powder coating rig. Once I run out of these labels I may look into clear.

So do you:
1) completely wrap the tube with the label?
or
2) cut out the design and keep the powder coat color for background?

if (1), why do you powdercoat?

The pens are beautiful, I'm just trying to understand the process.

Thanks

 

[Jim15]

Thanks for the pictures Scott.

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

Scott, thanks for the great pictures and instructions. Questions, do you put that in a pressure pot? I mean do you use pressure when you cast in the ice cube tray?

From my post above:

- Cast in a pressure pot under 20 pounds of pressure.

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

So do you:
1) completely wrap the tube with the label?

Yes.

if (1), why do you powdercoat?

The labels will turn translucent. You will see the brass under them.

I use powdercoating because I found paint would react with PR and the labels would come loose after being cast (The tubes slipped out, leaving the label and the PR casting behind).

The pens are beautiful, I'm just trying to understand the process.

Thaks

Thanks for the compliment and you're welcome!

 

[gwilki]

Scott: Thanks for all your information. I had the same problem with the labels and tubes coming out of the resin. Since I don't have a powder coating set up, I just put a thin coating of CA over the label and the paint. Then, I cast. I've not had any problems since using the CA as a barrier between the cast material and the paint. Just a FYI.

 

[NewLondon88]

Scott: Thanks for all your information. I had the same problem with the labels and tubes coming out of the resin. Since I don't have a powder coating set up, I just put a thin coating of CA over the label and the paint. Then, I cast. I've not had any problems since using the CA as a barrier between the cast material and the paint. Just a FYI.

I, too found a problem with the tubes coming out, but even without the
paint. So that particular one wasn't a reaction between the resin and paint,
it seems to be a reaction between the resin and the adhesive in the label.
BUT that was only on the steel tubes, not the brass.
However, the color of the steel tubes is much better on white, no yellow
cast like you get with the brass.

I'm not set up to powder coat. (hell, I'm not even set up to do casting..)

So far I've been doing everything on a black background, so even the brass
color isn't that noticeable (yet).

Here's a couple of rejects I was testing things on. (copyright violations :tongue

ps, thanks for taking the time to explain some of this, Squirrel.
I really do appreciate it.

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

As promised:

My Walmart has the ice cube trays. You can find them at: http://www.icetubes.com/new/buy.asp

 

[NewLondon88]

As promised:

My Walmart has the ice cube trays. You can find them at: http://www.icetubes.com/new/buy.asp

I appreciate it .. the only ones on the list near me are the Walgreens and
WalMart. I even went back to two of the WalMarts today to see if I just
didn't see them, but no luck. Same with Walgreens.

I must have hit 20 or so stores in the last three days looking for these.

Ah well .. $1.99 for a pair of 25mm plastic knitting needles and 30 seconds
with a hack saw ..:biggrin:

ps, if anyone wants to go the knitting needle route to make molds, Joanne
fabrics had them for $10 a pair. The dollar store had them for under $2

 

[PaulDoug]

I The dollar store had them for under $2

Is this result of inflation? No longer really a dollar store!

 

[NewLondon88]

Is this result of inflation? No longer really a dollar store!

They just didn't say WHICH dollar :wink:

 

[NewLondon88]

Tonights work in progress

forgot to bring the dowels that I tapered to fit into the tops of the tubes
Remembered that just as I started to pour. (I cut larger ones for the tops
of the Jr Gents)

We'll see ..

Someone reading this thread is picking up some Ice Tubes for me :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Many thanks, Dennis.

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

From the REI online source: http://www.rei.com/product/664266

 

[PaulDoug]

I got some from WallyWorld, because someday when, the recession is over, I want to try casting. I decided to try one for ice-cubes for my water jug. It tain't easy to get ice out of just one or two of those tubes at a time! Than they melt real fast! Maybe good for casting but a bummer for ice!

 

[dennisg]

I found the ice cube trays at Walley World and I've got the pennies and tooth picks. Where are the needle protectors. Walley World didn't have any that I could find. I may have missed that part of this thread. thanks, dennis

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

I found the ice cube trays at Walley World and I've got the pennies and tooth picks. Where are the needle protectors. Walley World didn't have any that I could find. I may have missed that part of this thread. thanks, dennis

In the craft section. Look for knitting yarn. They will be close.

 

[its_virgil]

I don't powdercoat the tubes...but I could. I use white spray paint and have had no problem. Painting is much faster and easier than powdercoating. Until paint gives me a problem I'll not powdercoat. Labels, resin, and tubes stay put.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[NewLondon88]

I don't powdercoat the tubes...but I could. I use white spray paint and have had no problem. Painting is much faster and easier than powdercoating. Until paint gives me a problem I'll not powdercoat. Labels, resin, and tubes stay put.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

I've found that primer works well, too. No reaction so far. The color may
not be as good as the white, but not as bad as the brass. (my primer is
gray) I wonder if they have white primer?
I can't powder coat here.. no space, no time, no inclination, no equipment.

On a good note, I dug out the Alps printer. It will print white ink, gold,
silver and those are waterproof. On a bad note, they stopped making the
ink ribbons last year and I'm having some trouble finding them. The people
who (might) still have them are doubling the price..

 

[TBone]

Great pics Scott, thanks. This one is saved for my to try list. I'm assuming in the picture that thetube is powdercoated red? Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something/

 

[NewLondon88]

In the craft section. Look for knitting yarn. They will be close.

I must not have decent WalMarts here, they didn't have them either.
I did find them at Joann Fabrics though. I got a few different sizes for the
different kits. The big green ones in the back are a good base for all tubes
and the resin didn't leak inside. :biggrin:

The medium ones (purple) are good for the tops of gents & barons. If you
spray them with release, you can just pour the resin over the top of them
and not worry about it. The bright green ones are good for cigars and the
bottoms of the gents and barons, sierras etc.

Wallys would definitely be cheaper ..

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

Great pics Scott, thanks. This one is saved for my to try list. I'm assuming in the picture that thetube is powdercoated red? Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something/

Yes, that is a red PC tube. I used it for contrast.

Tommy if you want/need some PC tubes let me know. I currently have flat black, mirror black, green, red, light blue, appliance white, and chrome. It would give me an excuse to get over to Gaston to drop them off and check on the lake house.

 

[Dagwood]

Awesome information and techniques Scott.

Thanks.

 

[TBone]

Scott,

I have not cast any blanks yet, but planning for the future. But I'm always up for a visit. I'll be tied up possibly the next 2 weekends moving the furniture out of my mom's house, but should be around in November.