greenchicken
Member
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DIPPING VIDEO
- Thread starter greenchicken
- Start date
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dbledsoe
Member
Cool - I like it!
triw51
Member
That is an awsome plan.
SteveRussell
Member
Great Video
Hello,
Thanks for making the video... A few questions arise after watching your video.
1.) The pen barrels you finished (2 of the 3 anyway) did not have any surface elements like beads, deep grooves or more pronounced curves. One of the barrels looked like it had two small groves cut into the barrel near one end. Does the finish tend to build up in grooves or beads? Is the rubber flexible enough to handle these types of surface decorations and still leave a smooth finish, or is this process limited to primarily smooth barreled pens?
2.) What did you use to cut the hole in your rubber inner tube, a hole punch (like the kind for cutting holes in tarps for grommets) perhaps? It seems like this hole would need to be very clean (no jagged edges) so the "wipe" would be even around the circumference of the barrel. Just thinking out loud here...
3.) How did you determine how large to make the hole in the rubber inner tube? You demonstrated three barrels of varying width, from a slimline to a cigar... How large was the hole you punched in the inner tube you use? Is there a formula to observe when making the hole to ensure that the hole is small enough to efficiently wipe the barrel in one pass?
Thanks in advance and take care!
Hello,
Thanks for making the video... A few questions arise after watching your video.
1.) The pen barrels you finished (2 of the 3 anyway) did not have any surface elements like beads, deep grooves or more pronounced curves. One of the barrels looked like it had two small groves cut into the barrel near one end. Does the finish tend to build up in grooves or beads? Is the rubber flexible enough to handle these types of surface decorations and still leave a smooth finish, or is this process limited to primarily smooth barreled pens?
2.) What did you use to cut the hole in your rubber inner tube, a hole punch (like the kind for cutting holes in tarps for grommets) perhaps? It seems like this hole would need to be very clean (no jagged edges) so the "wipe" would be even around the circumference of the barrel. Just thinking out loud here...
3.) How did you determine how large to make the hole in the rubber inner tube? You demonstrated three barrels of varying width, from a slimline to a cigar... How large was the hole you punched in the inner tube you use? Is there a formula to observe when making the hole to ensure that the hole is small enough to efficiently wipe the barrel in one pass?
Thanks in advance and take care!
greenchicken
Member
I used the largest size in my rotating leather punch tool, sorry not sure exactly how big that is. Since this the inner tube is so thin appears to be stretching just fine from the tinny slimline to the large cigar.
I don't think it matter too much as long as it so small that it rips or too big that it does not contact all sides at once. The most important thing is just a single, smooth movement. Any pause, even a slow down) will create a ring in the finish that will have to be sanded off.
Good question about the bead & coves. The answer is: I don't know? I suspect that if they are not too dramatic it should be fine. The one that have two small groove did take more finish, but after three coat they were still fine (fine being visually it look good and physically you could still feel the groove). Personally I do not do a lot of that work on pens.
Hoep that helped.
I don't think it matter too much as long as it so small that it rips or too big that it does not contact all sides at once. The most important thing is just a single, smooth movement. Any pause, even a slow down) will create a ring in the finish that will have to be sanded off.
Good question about the bead & coves. The answer is: I don't know? I suspect that if they are not too dramatic it should be fine. The one that have two small groove did take more finish, but after three coat they were still fine (fine being visually it look good and physically you could still feel the groove). Personally I do not do a lot of that work on pens.
Hoep that helped.
Great video and technique for an alternative to Ca finishes. You used a product from PSI. Are there other sources or will a standard lacquer from Lowes, Home Depot, Ace work or is it a special viscosity? thanks for sharing
greenchicken
Member
I do not know if there are particular properties to the PSI product that separates it from other lacquers. Gasket Lacquer is the stuff we use for arrow.
Haynie
Member
Cool. Thanks
greenchicken
Member
I will add that the PSI dipping lacquer smells completely different to any other lacquer I have smelled (that sounds a tad odd, it's not like I am addicted to smelling lacquer, I could quit anytime I wanted, mean it's no big deal, everyone does it......)
Jim15
Member
Nice video Phil. Thanks for sharing.
Dustygoose
Member
Very nice Phil. Thanks for another idea to try. Now, where did I put the tubes for the kid's bikes...lol
Carl Fisher
Member
Great video. Thank you for sharing this technique. Will have to try this at some point as a CA alternative.
glycerine
Member
Very cool! I think I will try this whenever I get my lazy bum back in the shop!
Wildman
Member
Great video, outstanding explanation, of your technique. Have no doubt technique will work with other clear finishing products too.
When dipping in Lacquer/Shellac like to wait longer between dipping. Has to do with drying time and re-dissolving finish of previous coat. With old set of kit bushings on bottom of pen blank do get a heavier coating of finish. Any excess finish that does not drip back into container collects on kit bushings not the blank. I am okay with that. Get a better depth to sheen faster.
If dipping in poly or varnish, may or may not sand between coats. Those finishes do not dissolve into previous coat. Each coat is separate and may build faster depending upon product selected.
I use s separate container for dipping to prevent finish contamination, and allows for thinning finish a bit.
When dipping in Lacquer/Shellac like to wait longer between dipping. Has to do with drying time and re-dissolving finish of previous coat. With old set of kit bushings on bottom of pen blank do get a heavier coating of finish. Any excess finish that does not drip back into container collects on kit bushings not the blank. I am okay with that. Get a better depth to sheen faster.
If dipping in poly or varnish, may or may not sand between coats. Those finishes do not dissolve into previous coat. Each coat is separate and may build faster depending upon product selected.
I use s separate container for dipping to prevent finish contamination, and allows for thinning finish a bit.
greenchicken
Member
Thanks for the additional information.
Bushwacker
Member
As a CA challenged penturner I found this pen dipping idea to be a nifty idea. Gives the pens a "softer" touch than a CA finish. Thanks for a great idea!
greenchicken
Member
Your welcome, that was my incentive a non-CA finish that is as durable (if not more!).
greenchicken
Member
QUICK UPDATE!
I finished a pen with this method and then went back to the lathe for MM polishing. looked so good I decided to put a quick coat of Friction Polish on top. BAD IDEA the HUT friction polish reacted badly with the dipping finish. Had to start over again.
Live and learn,
I finished a pen with this method and then went back to the lathe for MM polishing. looked so good I decided to put a quick coat of Friction Polish on top. BAD IDEA the HUT friction polish reacted badly with the dipping finish. Had to start over again.
Live and learn,
raar25
Member
How long did you wait to do the friction polish? Laquer actually takes up to 7 days to completeely cure.
Wildman
Member
When finishing always have to consider four times.
Dry to the touch time
Dry time between coats
Dry time for use
Actual cure time (finish fully hardens) can take several days.
I hardly ever wax a lacquer finish after polishing with MM. Just found does not add or take away from depth of finish.
If want to soften any finish gloss use pumice, mineral oil paste and lint free rag. Normally apply either auto paste or furniture paste wax after completely remove pumice-oil mix.
Some folks prefer mineral oil and steel wool to cut or soften gloss finish which works well too. This procedure lot simplier than pumice paste, but just as messy.
Dry to the touch time
Dry time between coats
Dry time for use
Actual cure time (finish fully hardens) can take several days.
I hardly ever wax a lacquer finish after polishing with MM. Just found does not add or take away from depth of finish.
If want to soften any finish gloss use pumice, mineral oil paste and lint free rag. Normally apply either auto paste or furniture paste wax after completely remove pumice-oil mix.
Some folks prefer mineral oil and steel wool to cut or soften gloss finish which works well too. This procedure lot simplier than pumice paste, but just as messy.
Paul W
Member
Disappointed
Apparently lacquer type is critical here. I duplicated the rig in the video and tested it with a black walnut, slimline barrel passed through a 1/4" hole. I lost count after 20 coats of Min-Wax clear gloss brushing lacquer. There was no appreciable gloss and the grain was still not filled. I intend to sand with micro-mesh after curing but I don't hold out much hope. Is gasket lacquer something easily found over the counter or do I need to order it? How many coats are necessary? I had high hopes for this technique.
Apparently lacquer type is critical here. I duplicated the rig in the video and tested it with a black walnut, slimline barrel passed through a 1/4" hole. I lost count after 20 coats of Min-Wax clear gloss brushing lacquer. There was no appreciable gloss and the grain was still not filled. I intend to sand with micro-mesh after curing but I don't hold out much hope. Is gasket lacquer something easily found over the counter or do I need to order it? How many coats are necessary? I had high hopes for this technique.
greenchicken
Member
Gasket Laquer is a special order item and it is very different then min-wax, or any other like product. I do not know what that difference is technically speaking but it viscosity is significantly thicker and the smell and completely different.
Also, min-wax each coast of min-wax will dissolve the previous coat (or so I am told) this is yet another difference to gasket lacquer. It dry in second and is ready for the next coat.
Also, min-wax each coast of min-wax will dissolve the previous coat (or so I am told) this is yet another difference to gasket lacquer. It dry in second and is ready for the next coat.
thewishman
Member
Thanks for the video.
I've not tried lacquer, because of the long drying/curing time. Your method looks like it would significantly reduce that waiting time.
I've not tried lacquer, because of the long drying/curing time. Your method looks like it would significantly reduce that waiting time.
Thanks. I'm going to try it.
Wildman
Member
I think technique and jig, valid way to finish pens with any film finish you have. Might have to make adjustment for semi ring or ring porous woods. Walnut can fall into semi ring porous category.
Closed grained woods easy ideal for this jig and technique.
Open grain and ring porous woods need more attention. I might try making the hole a tad larger first. Do not want remove as much finish pushing blank through hole. Allow full 30 minutes or more for finish to dry between dipping. Have no idea what recoat time is for product using. I might try putting on a seal coat of thinned lacquer while blank still on the lathe before dipping. Can also use some spray can lacquer sanding sealer and let dry before dipping.
I have had no probelms dipping open grain or ring porous woods but have not tried the jig yet. Used dipping procedure described in earlier post.
Closed grained woods easy ideal for this jig and technique.
Open grain and ring porous woods need more attention. I might try making the hole a tad larger first. Do not want remove as much finish pushing blank through hole. Allow full 30 minutes or more for finish to dry between dipping. Have no idea what recoat time is for product using. I might try putting on a seal coat of thinned lacquer while blank still on the lathe before dipping. Can also use some spray can lacquer sanding sealer and let dry before dipping.
I have had no probelms dipping open grain or ring porous woods but have not tried the jig yet. Used dipping procedure described in earlier post.
mikespenturningz
Member
Thank you so much for sharing this, I am finding out that I cannot use the CA finishes like I used to. I think I may be allergic to it! I ordered some of this today and rush delivery so I can try it. I really love making the pens and I now have a great finish on my CA pens but need to find another way I hope this is it!
Mike
Mike
RichB
Member
Thanks Phil for a great Video. I ordered the finish from PSI and am building the fixture now. I plan on making a few inserts to the jig that have different size holes in them. I do have a Question. When polishing this finish with MM do you use water to keep the MM from pluging up. I have a lacquer on my cabinets in the kitchen and it turns white if water is left on it. I don't know if water will cause a problem in this case. Thanks again Phil. RichB
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Wildman
Member
I have not used this dipping method. Whether dipping, wiping or brushing on lacquer always wet sand & polish with micromesh before assembly. I definitely put more than two coats on before final sanding polishing.
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yorkie
Member
Thanks so much for the video.
So, I built the jig, as I'm always looking for new methods. I had the PSI dipping lacquer already. I used a bicycle tire and punched a hole from a hole punch, looks the same size. I used it on a comfort pen and dipped 5 times. The thing is, it felt dry right away and makes me feel as if the hole is squeezing off all the lacquer completely.
How can I tell if it's coating?
Do you have bigger holes for larger barrels?
Thanks again.
So, I built the jig, as I'm always looking for new methods. I had the PSI dipping lacquer already. I used a bicycle tire and punched a hole from a hole punch, looks the same size. I used it on a comfort pen and dipped 5 times. The thing is, it felt dry right away and makes me feel as if the hole is squeezing off all the lacquer completely.
How can I tell if it's coating?
Do you have bigger holes for larger barrels?
Thanks again.
greenchicken
Member
The short answer is YES. I have not gone back to this project yet but I do plan on changing the design so that I can have various size hole available. My initial test on a slimline worked great, but the fatter cigar did not. I plan to make multiple rubber frames that slide into the jig, each with a difference size whole. I will post pictures when i complete it.
yorkie
Member
So, even though it feels dry right away, am I still getting a coating or do you think I need to enlarge the hole?
Thanks a lot.
Thanks a lot.
Paul W
Member
Can't thank you enough!
What a change this dipping process has made in my work. The addition of the gasket makes things lots easier and faster. I do still have questions though about the process. Lacquer is very unforgiving when it comes to revealing pits and gaps in the grain. To fix this I apply 2 or 3 coats of thin CA while still at the lathe and sand with 600 grit before I dip. After dipping and curing, I wet sand with 2000 grit wet/dry paper and buff out with Hut Ultra Gloss. Has anyone experienced any long term problems using lacquer over CA? I've always wondered exactly how long I should let the CA cure before I dip and how many dips is enough? I like to dip 8-10 times now but I can't help wondering if that's over kill. Thanks again for the video and I'd love to see any enhancements if and when you come up with them.
What a change this dipping process has made in my work. The addition of the gasket makes things lots easier and faster. I do still have questions though about the process. Lacquer is very unforgiving when it comes to revealing pits and gaps in the grain. To fix this I apply 2 or 3 coats of thin CA while still at the lathe and sand with 600 grit before I dip. After dipping and curing, I wet sand with 2000 grit wet/dry paper and buff out with Hut Ultra Gloss. Has anyone experienced any long term problems using lacquer over CA? I've always wondered exactly how long I should let the CA cure before I dip and how many dips is enough? I like to dip 8-10 times now but I can't help wondering if that's over kill. Thanks again for the video and I'd love to see any enhancements if and when you come up with them.
Phillikl
Member
Thanks for the great video.... Now i'm egging my boy on to do burnouts in the street on his bike... He has no clue on the alterior motive behind it
Merry Christmas!
~Kendall
Merry Christmas!
~Kendall