I've been around for some time now and have posted or replied to a post, only to have someone tell me I need to learn on my own before I ask a question.
I've noticed that the most rude answers are in the advanced pen turning forum. I was thought that the only dumb question was the one you didn't ask, so why do people get so upset when a fellow turner asks for a tutorial, or didn't look or find something in the library or simply wants to know how to do something before he ruins a blank?
I've read a really nice, humble post, respectfully requesting information, only to have someone answer in a rough tone to " try it by yourself a then ask questions". Doesn't this defeat the whole purpose of the forum? Are we so "Advanced" that we can't guide someone in order to help them avoid our mistakes? And let's not talk about when someone makes a suggestion or a technique that we don't agree upon.
I think that if a member feels that a reply to a post is a waste of time, he should just skip to the next, or if the question is to simple that only a child would post, then he should just ignore it.
There is no one way to make a pen, there is no proper way to make a pen, there is only safe ways to make pens and that is all.
Together we have to collective knowledge to teach the next generation of pen makers the art that we so passionately discuss here, maybe we should try to teach more, and repeat ourselves more like the teachers that we loved back in school,
we are all students, we are all teachers!
You know Joey, your observations to that issue are most true, unfortunately...!
The learning curve to handle, deal and accept the crazy ways "communication" in web forums can take you, is as unpredictable as the learning process on handling and dealing with pen turning and its, ins and outs.
I have said this many times and while we are all different, there are things happening in these forums that should not exist but that, is a learning lesson on its own.
It is true that, many folks have forgotten how it was when themselves got into the pen turning issue, it saddens me that some people not only forgot that but, have no patience and or interest in teach/help others. Not everyone is a good teacher, and not everyone is a good student/learner so, it becomes obvious when you are in a place like the IAP where, some members don't care, nor take the time to teach, explain, guide someone through a process or a number of processes that themselves may have had difficulty with but, after they went over that hurdle, some go as far as push people away so that, they don't learn the secrets that they have also learn from someone else, as if that would give them the upper hand and the monopoly of making good sales, there is a name for that kind of behaviour that, I and many others here would call, greediness...!
The one thing that you have to learn and accept is that, don't judge the book by its cover, not everyone on IAP is like that and those that are so, are a minority and the thing that will most surprise you and most of us is the fact that, regardless if they wont to share if or not, we can learn so much from them just by watching so, they have a place here, such as everyone else, like it or not.
Do I like it, absolutely not but that, is my own opinion and sometimes, and part of the learning curve, you learn who you want to deal with/talk to and simply ignore those that treat you as if they are "superior beings" and you are nobody.
So, and as I said in the beginning, learning how to handle how some people wants to treat you and simply ignore it, it will be you best tool and chance for you to ask the question again to someone else, and ask as many time as you see necessary, until you get the answer you need.
One advantage of being a live member on a web forum, is the fact that, you can interact with others and that alone is one of the most rewarding feelings a newbie will get. Going to a forum library to search for the answers, is no different than making a Google search, in fact, every subject/issue, idea, image that we have on IAP library, is available on net, without you to require to become a member, of a live forum. Why do people join in, because they can see that, this place can provide them with a unique help/assistance/guidance and one to one tutorial if necessary...!
One would think that, the easiest and most effective ways to avoid those members that you will be better ignoring, would be for IAP to have a list of names that you would be advised to ignore however, that would contravene some of the IAP guidelines/rules and would be also considered "discrimination" by law so, as helpful as that could be, is not the way it works...!
Pretty much the same happens with something that you are just learning about, sure, is smart and advisable that, one try to learn as much as possible before one gets "hands on" and while is most possible to give you guidance in avoiding "SOME" problems, is almost impossible to prevent someone from, ALL PROBLEMS...!
I'm pleased to see IAP owner (Jeff), requesting some info about those being less than hopeful in here, if I am to make a suggestion to "them" is that, if assisting others with whatever the questions/issues they may have, is not for you, please, don't do and say anything, you will be making a much better service to all of us here on IAP, let others that are happy to answer the same question as many times as is necessary and avoid the bad feelings or a bad taste in ones mouth, that can generate, as a result...!
Over the years, you learn that, some arguments are not worth the time and energy, one's has to consume, is like you seriously struggling with a blank that made you already sharp every one of your gauges (quality ones) and even though, you are at the verge of destroying it, you followed all traditional ways but, it simple doesn't happen and you paid good money for that blank and you do not want to see it destroyed however, and after spending all that time and energy trying to be "technically correct", you remembered of something that you saw/read among all these "options" that, it makes sense and is known to be effective so, you decided to give it a go and, guess what, you endup with a perfectly turned pen that you so proudly show to everyone on IAP.
You will get lots of "nice" pen comments, and among all those giving you the thumbs up, there will be some of those people that, didn't give a hoot if you succeeded or not, and while they think that, you follow the "traditional" methods, making that pen, you get their positive comment HOWEVER, if you decided to mention the less traditional method/system you used, they would probably turn their head the other way or give you a less than pleasant comment.
So, you have 2 options as a newbie or even, if you are not a newbie, if you are not yet skilled and proficient (how could you, you are just starting..!) with traditional wood turning systems/methods, you either are honest to yourself and do not hide what you used to get it done or, you will allow yourself to feel inferior and useless in fear of being criticised by some people.
You start that trend and you will be "stuck" for life, you will always fear to mention anything and therefore, you are causing more damage than good, not only to yourself but, to all the other new turners that will be confronted with the same problems as you did, and they will never know what you did that made you create just a magnificent pen, everyone (those that could count...!) loses.:frown:
It remind me of something that I learn from my father, when I was a little toddler and working with him as a house painter. I was always sanding wood, windows, doors, etc, etc., everything was made with wood and off-course, that was one of the jobs that my father though most suitable for me so, I would spend days, doing nothing else, sanding wood by hand. I soon learn that, doing so for long periods of time, you not only get callus in your hands but, and before those callus form, you get lots of blisters that hurt like hell, but that, you may already know, huh...??
What you may not know is that, anyone in the medical fraternity and or used to "traditional" remedy and curing methods/system/products would give/sell you or suggest that you use creams of all sorts, right..??? it may be so however, my father with his long experience in these issues, he had a non traditional system/method that he would swear, is the quickest and the most efficient way to reduce the pain/burning sensation and actually dry the water bubble and heal the skin, pretty fast, and that was, peeing as often as possible, on the affected fingers...! No, you don't wash it, you rip a piece of plastic from a plastic bag, cover it over and the wrap it with masking tape, always available to us, on the job...!
I would have 100 other less traditional methods/systems of "things" that work in so many cases where traditional method, are not effective or helpful in those situations, what would I call that...?? why would I be bother in trying to find a "correct" term for it or try to justify its efficiency to some people, what a waste of time that would be, it would be a lot better to pass on that knowledge and make sure people understand that, what others may think, in situations like these, are not that important, after all..!
Cheers
George
