4,000 Amputations A Year And Counting

[zig613]

Here is an interesting article on an alternative to the SawStop Fixing The Cutting Edge: Innovation Meets Table Saw : NPR

Wade

 

[watch_art]

I saw that on Discovery channel last year. That's amazing. I'm surprised it's not on every table saw.

 

[Shock me]

From the linked article describing the advantages of this alternative ("Whirlwind") vs Sawstop:

The biggest advantage, though, is that you can actually buy a SawStop saw. Whirlwind is still in the prototype stage and, unfortunately for woodworking enthusiasts, not being sold yet.

In the meantime, I can't recommend SawStop highly enough...

 

[ZanderPommo]

Great if it works, but the actual sawstop saws are expensive as all get out.
Plus if not careful you can set them off in other ways. I kicked one off in my shop class and the teacher looked up at me, i put my hands into the air and let him know I never touched it (was in fact saveral feet away) upon close inspection, there was an industrial staple that fell down by the blade, and the touch of metal broke the current that set it off. It was scary as hell. I've heard of 4 going off in my school just last year.

That being said 2 of them were actually fired on account of students fingers
the fourth was a similar experience to mine, done by our head carpenter, there was a loose bolt in there and it touched the blade and set it off

 

[Padre]

Great if it works, but the actual sawstop saws are expensive as all get out.
Plus if not careful you can set them off in other ways. I kicked one off in my shop class and the teacher looked up at me, i put my hands into the air and let him know I never touched it (was in fact saveral feet away) upon close inspection, there was an industrial staple that fell down by the blade, and the touch of metal broke the current that set it off. It was scary as hell. I've heard of 4 going off in my school just last year.

That being said 2 of them were actually fired on account of students fingers
the fourth was a similar experience to mine, done by our head carpenter, there was a loose bolt in there and it touched the blade and set it off

The sawstop is not expensive as all get out. When you compare it to similar quality saws (Powermatic), it is often LESS expensive.

 

[The Penguin]

and it's paid for itself twice in those 2 accidents that were actually caused by students.

 

[thetalbott4]

Absolutely. Can you imagine what the cost of 2 student fingers in tablesaws would be? Im not talking about the injuries themselves, thats a given. I mean the potential lawsuits and, as usually happens, shutting down programs because of liability issues.

 

[ZanderPommo]

Oh I absolutely dissagree, its absolutly worth it. Dont misunderstand, I'm only saying its expensive as compared to some tablesaws, I realize there are also more expensive ones, but the reason we dont have one in our home was because we didnt really have the money to drop on one, and I wish they could incorporate the system into smaller, cheaper saws as well. Also, as with anything of this importance, it takes extra care to make sure it only goes off in an actual emergence. For my schools sake however, I wish it did enough to at least nick the finger before it stopped, I know both of those kids, and they're both idiots honestly may have done it on purpose, I just wish it had bit them a tiny bit haha

 

[ren-lathe]

Absolutely. Can you imagine what the cost of 2 student fingers in tablesaws would be? Im not talking about the injuries themselves, thats a given. I mean the potential lawsuits and, as usually happens, shutting down programs because of liability issues.

The bad part of all the liability is the majority of the "accidents" are really negligence. All the injuries I am aware including the one that sued Ryobi when you find out the details someone did something improper. My father was stone blind & had no vision at all. He used his 10" table saw any where from two to a dozen times a week. When he died at 81 he had never been cut by a saw. He was careful, set everything up before he started, did not work in the shop if he was tired. The only two power tools he never used was my lathe & a grinder.

 

[pens by david]

I had a uni saw for years never a problem, 6 grand kids come along , my wife goes with me to woodcraft one day, just happens to be the day they are running HOTDOGS through the saw , wife say`s 6 beautiful grand kids ,60 beautiful fingers what do you think I think?? bought the 5 horse slide table, mobile stand ,etc . Was it worth it ??

Friend wanted to use saw ( never had let anyone use may last saw no mater what,I would do the sawing) You guessed it brake worked flawlessly. Was it, worth HANDS DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!! He bought $70.00 replacement brake and $60.00 blade..........

Oh ,after 12 years of owning uni saw sold it for more then I bought it for..

David in beautiful Coeur D Alene,Idaho

Jesus Christ died so you might live....

 

[TellicoTurning]

I don't own a good table saw, but I think all the safety devices while are great and good for the average joe, I think they take away one of the most efficient and better safety device ever made.... the human mind. If we get complacent and depend on the safety device to "save" us from ourselves, we are defeating the purpose of them in the first place... that said and as I started this post, I don't own a good table saw... I have one of the little Delta shop saws from Lowe's that does an adequate job on most cuts... it terrifies me... along with my chop saw, my band saw and sometimes even the lathe... I've been hurt twice on my tools... both times, my mind wasn't in the game... first I took a bowl in the face because I took my shield off and just wanted to touch up the bottom of a bowl spinning in a Longworth chuck... they don't hold well and should have had the tail stock up... black eye and maybe a cracked cheek bone later, I never turn on the lathe now without a shield on my face... other injury, I had just cored a bowl with my new coring device... it leaves a sharp edge on the inside core... I started to hollow it with the wrong tool... I was experimenting and the tool was more aggressive than I had anticipated... the catch snatched my guide hand into the edge of the bowl and sliced the knuckle of my left hand almost to the bone... not enough for stitches (may should have gotten some, but didn't)... it's far far more important that we keep our minds in the work and pay attention to our tools than all the safety device installations... Again that said, I would probably install them myself as they are added insurance, but our attention will save more injuries than all of the devices put together.

 

[The Penguin]

I think taking a bowl to the face - a shield is not going to help much.

I think table saws are much less forgiving when it comes to accidents.

 

[StephenM]

Of course, it has a bypass mode so how long until someone is cutting a piece of metal in bypass mode, then cuts a piece of wood and looses a finger and sues Sawstop because there wasn't a "warning".

Build something idiot proof and the world will build a better idiot.

 

[Andrew_K99]

The biggest problem with the 'Whirlwind', aside from not being available, is that is works like the standard guard on machines that are often removed. If your factory guard is installed it will act very similar to the 'Whirlwind'.

I think SawStops are great but I have issue with how Steve Gass is trying to push them to market (through the gov't) and holds all the vauge patents that prevents others from trying to compete with him.

 

[Padre]

Of course, it has a bypass mode so how long until someone is cutting a piece of metal in bypass mode, then cuts a piece of wood and looses a finger and sues Sawstop because there wasn't a "warning".

Build something idiot proof and the world will build a better idiot.

The only way that would happen is if you left the saw running after cutting the metal. If you turn it off, it automatically reverts to "stop mode."

Another plus: if anything that shouldn't be is in contact with the blade (a hand, a piece of metal, etc.) the saw will not turn on.

 

[Padre]

The biggest problem with the 'Whirlwind', aside from not being available, is that is works like the standard guard on machines that are often removed. If your factory guard is installed it will act very similar to the 'Whirlwind'.

I think SawStops are great but I have issue with how Steve Gass is trying to push them to market (through the gov't) and holds all the vauge patents that prevents others from trying to compete with him.

Yes, I think it is unfortunate that such a wonderful piece of machinery is tainted by the person who own the patent. IMHO, the SawStop stands on its own as a top-tier table saw. Its quality is outstanding. Customer service is fantastic. The components are excellent. And its price is very competitive. We should not boycott a great product because of those types of disagreements.

I kind of look at it like I look at Apple products. They are wonderful and high quality, but Steve Jobs was reportedly pretty much a jerk, and Apple (now reputed to be the richest company in the world) is just as aggressive about it's trademarks as Steve Gass is about his. Yet we have to admit Apple makes a great product.

 

[Haynie]

The difference between Apple and Saw Stop is pretty large. Look at the number of tablets that have come out with conductive touch screen technology. Saw Stop did a very good job of making their patents so vague, if I understand them right, that anything even remotely resembling it is dead before it can enter the market. Too bad too. Maybe the power tool industry could take a lesson from computer industry.

 

[bitshird]

Side note, The SawStop folks tried to strongarm Delta,Porter Cable and B&D the parent company into putting them on their saws and they politely told him where to stuff it.
That being said, I wish my cheap Delta 10 inch table saw had , had one on it when I removed part of one finger and made the middle finger of my left hand only useable for one common gesture for use when in heavy traffic!!
The heck of it is, I've heard that the Saw Stop pattent is owned by an Attorney, and that several years ago he was trying to round up clients that had been injured by table saws that"Could have been equipped with the Saw Stop",
I would gladly pay the 1000.00 or so for one of their saws if I could have use of those two fingers back.
Between the Dr's and Hospitals, my insurance paid out close to 30,000.00.
It was clearly my fault I just had a major lapse of reason and intelligence.
The funny part (if there is one) I was making a pen for my Doctor.

 

[The Penguin]

world's most expensive pen?

 

[StephenM]

Of course, it has a bypass mode so how long until someone is cutting a piece of metal in bypass mode, then cuts a piece of wood and looses a finger and sues Sawstop because there wasn't a "warning".

Build something idiot proof and the world will build a better idiot.

The only way that would happen is if you left the saw running after cutting the metal. If you turn it off, it automatically reverts to "stop mode."

Another plus: if anything that shouldn't be is in contact with the blade (a hand, a piece of metal, etc.) the saw will not turn on.

I leave the saw running lots of times when making repeated cuts - not much of a stretch IMHO.

 

[ren-lathe]

Side note, The SawStop folks tried to strongarm Delta,Porter Cable and B&D the parent company into putting them on their saws and they politely told him where to stuff it.
That being said, I wish my cheap Delta 10 inch table saw had , had one on it when I removed part of one finger and made the middle finger of my left hand only useable for one common gesture for use when in heavy traffic!!
The heck of it is, I've heard that the Saw Stop pattent is owned by an Attorney, and that several years ago he was trying to round up clients that had been injured by table saws that"Could have been equipped with the Saw Stop",
I would gladly pay the 1000.00 or so for one of their saws if I could have use of those two fingers back.
Between the Dr's and Hospitals, my insurance paid out close to 30,000.00.
It was clearly my fault I just had a major lapse of reason and intelligence.
The funny part (if there is one) I was making a pen for my Doctor.

I am not trying to be argumentative but if the "cheap" saw had a saw stop it would not have been cheap, so you probably would not have bought it but a cheaper one instead. Then you would still be wishing you spent the money.