Big Brother on the internet?

[ed4copies]

I suspect most of you already know that there are tools available for websites to "assist" you in shopping. If you drop your cart, or just stop by the website and then leave, you can be traced and an email or coupon can be sent to you, the next time you log on.

So, do you WANT help? Or do you prefer to believe no one knows where you are looking?

I THINK there is a tie in to age, so I am structuring this survey to test my theory. Please reply honestly!!

The smart thing to do would be make the results invisible--answers will be more valid. But, I hate doing that, so I am relying on you to ANSWER first, THEN view the results to see how popular your opinion is, in your age group.

Comments are, of course, welcome!!!

(During "structuring" of poll, complications set in. Now it appears I can't add the poll or delete the thread to start over-----My apologies--comments still welcome!!)

 

[Russianwolf]

would help if there was a poll, Ed.
:biggrin:

 

[Mark]

I was thinking the same thing, but maybe Big Brother saw it and deleted it... :biggrin:

 

[glycerine]

I'm 32. I don't mind getting emails like the ads from Harbor Freight or Best Buy, etc., but ONLY if I have given out my email address for that purpose and ONLY if I agree to it. I get aggrivated at people who do those types of things without my permission.
Taking Eric's post for instance, that's an invasion of privacy and is it even legal? If he gave his email address to Fastenal at some point in time, that's one thing, but if they truly pulled his email info off of his computer to send him an email, that's a whole other ball game...
Even if you're just talking about a popup with a coupon because my IP adress has connected to the server before and now I'm back again. I don't really even care for that. To me, logging my IP address and using it later is like someone from a store in the mall taking my picture and then next time they see me, come running over to me with a handful of junk mail and ads... maybe that's a little extreme, but I like my privacy and I answered honestly!
If I were to go to Exoctic Blanks and you had a place to sign up or a "preferences" section where I could note whether I prefer that type of thing or not, then I'm all for it, but don't do that type of thing "behind my back", so to speak.

 

[TomW]

I just want to know how to get the Coupons, Ed. :biggrin:

Tom

 

[glycerine]

I suspect most of you already know that there are tools available for websites to "assist" you in shopping. If you drop your cart, or just stop by the website and then leave, you can be traced and an email or coupon can be sent to you, the next time you log on.

So, do you WANT help? Or do you prefer to believe no one knows where you are looking?

I THINK there is a tie in to age, so I am structuring this survey to test my theory. Please reply honestly!!

The smart thing to do would be make the results invisible--answers will be more valid. But, I hate doing that, so I am relying on you to ANSWER first, THEN view the results to see how popular your opinion is, in your age group.

Comments are, of course, welcome!!!

(During "structuring" of poll, complications set in. Now it appears I can't add the poll or delete the thread to start over-----My apologies--comments still welcome!!)

If you can't even set up the poll, how on earth will you configure your new super duper spy tracker software!?!?!?!?!?

 

[ed4copies]

I just want to know how to get the Coupons, Ed. :biggrin:

Tom

Tom,

We want to GIVE you what you WANT. I am working on all possible ideas (that occur to me). Coupons are a problem, because of our relationship with our partners. Hopefully, we will find a way to make this possible at some point.

 

[skiprat]

I'll answer the same way I did on the original post about this topic....

....if I walk into a regular shop and I'm required to give my name and address just to look, then I'd walk out. If the shopkeeper was staring over my shoulder watching me browse, then I'd walk out.

When I visit an online shop and have to log in or create an account, then I just move on. There are even IAP member/vendor sites that I'd like to buy stuff from, but the fact that I know they are watching me browse really pee's me off.

Watching me shop is an invasion of my privacy and if you can't respect that and then resort to calling it 'assisting' then there are many much better places that will take my money!!!:wink:

 

[Russianwolf]

I just want to know how to get the Coupons, Ed. :biggrin:

Tom

Tom,

We want to GIVE you what you WANT. I am working on all possible ideas (that occur to me). Coupons are a problem, because of our relationship with our partners. Hopefully, we will find a way to make this possible at some point.

I am now selling $5 off coupons for the Exotic Blanks website. The cost per coupon is only $10. :biggrin:

 

[alphageek]

I am now selling $5 off coupons for the Exotic Blanks website. The cost per coupon is only $10. :biggrin:

You sound like that new taco bell commercial... If you give Ed $5 I'll bet he'll give you a $5 coupon.

 

[Mark]

You sound like that new taco bell commercial... If you give Ed $5 I'll bet he'll give you a $5 coupon.

Some of the freebees, I've gotten, greatly out weight the $5 coupon.. IMO..

 

[ed4copies]

You sound like that new taco bell commercial... If you give Ed $5 I'll bet he'll give you a $5 coupon.

HOLY Chihuahua!!! What a deal, maaaann!!

 

[Padre]

Please see my later post.

 

[skiprat]

Ok.....let me get this straight...


A vendor starts a thread in all seriousness and even asks for honest feedback....ok nothing wrong with that.

So you give your honest reply. But then the vendor ignores your comments and starts joking about TACO's!!!!!

IMHO this is the second thread this week that you shouldn't have started.
( the other one was where you pointed out a poor vendor):wink:

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I agree with the skiprat, if Dawn ever leaves...OOPS wrong train of thought. :redface: Crap Ed has my address too :at-wits-end::beat-up::doctor: if I have to log in just to look around I'm leaving. If I go to a site and later get swamped with spam I'll never go back. If they ask if they can send me email I'm OK with that. I also understand that privacy is a thing of the past. If you type it on your computer and press send it is out there forever and someone can find it. Big Brother does not need to invade our privacy most people are quite happy to display their whole lives on Myspace and facebook. At one time your boss had to talk to you to find out what kind of person you were, now they just Google your name. I feel better now sorry for the rant. This may surprise you but I'm only in my late 30's

 

[ed4copies]

Just to be clear.

I read several magazines related to internet marketing. "Exotics" is Dawn's endeavor and she decides how she will market. I attempt to help.

I have an existence of my own, separate from Exotics and I consider many here my friends. I hope I don't "rattle too many cages" by asking for my friends "take" on a subject.

Internet Retailer magazine has frequent articles on this topic. The software involved is, as I understand it, very expensive and well-targeted. MOST high end department store sites are using it. So, I am curious how it would translate to smaller sites.

I think it's clear from this that we are best to remain in the dark about who is doing what, on Exotics.

I have "intellectual curiosity" about many topics. This is one of them. Salesmen need to have a "well-rounded" education to converse with all types of prospective customers. So, I try to have that.

Sorry if anyone was offended by my question.

 

[glycerine]

How "expensive" is this stuff? I'm a computer programmer and always looking for an idea of some type of software to create on the side. It might be worth my time to look into!
I used to work for a company that had alot of marketing software. We housed very large databases with customer/subscriber info for many companies. And of course that info was sold back and forth to companies looking for new customers and we had software to pull out certain individuals based on demographics. Just made it easier to pick your target audience for different ads. Most of these were email and regular mail ads.

 

[ed4copies]

How "expensive" is this stuff? I'm a computer programmer and always looking for an idea of some type of software to create on the side. It might be worth my time to look into!
I used to work for a company that had alot of marketing software. We housed very large databases with customer/subscriber info for many companies. And of course that info was sold back and forth to companies looking for new customers and we had software to pull out certain individuals based on demographics. Just made it easier to pick your target audience for different ads. Most of these were email and regular mail ads.

Look into subscribing to Internet Retailer.
Or Information Week

As an industry "insider" you may qualify for free subscriptions. I do--as a result of my REAL job, NOT Exotics.

 

[glycerine]

Look into subscribing to Internet Retailer.
Or Information Week

As an industry "insider" you may qualify for free subscriptions. I do--as a result of my REAL job, NOT Exotics.

Ok, thanks.

 

[ed4copies]

Some of the freebees, I've gotten, greatly out weight the $5 coupon.. IMO..

Thanks Mark, that was one of my contributions to the marketing plan--glad you like it.

 

[Mark]

Thanks Mark, that was one of my contributions to the marketing plan--glad you like it.

I do. It's always a surprise. The red Metallic looks great on my zen (daily Driver). The purple (velvet look - Purple madre something..) I haven't found a home for, but I will...:wink: Not to mention the inks I have for my soon to be created FP..

Thx Dawn and Ed.

 

[NewLondon88]

I'm always a bit leery of collected information. I know it is happening, but when it
comes back in my face it bugs me. I'll follow a link to Amazon and at the bottom
of the page is the stuff I looked at 3 months ago when I followed a link. I know how
they're doing it, but it still rankles. Google is even worse. They track where you've
been, what you've searched and they throw ads back at you on other people's pages
that are related. that's creepy.
Kinda funny when you searched "How to sue Comcast for a Bazillion Dollars" and for
the next three weeks you see nothing but Comcast ads..

 

[skiprat]

C'mon Ed, if you ask for honest feedback then the least you could do is be honest in return..

While you state quite truthfully that it ( Exotic Blanks) is Dawn's venture, it is you personally that is listed in the MVV. Ed Brown....not Ms D Kizer or Exotic Blanks, but you. So please don't say that it's not your baby too!!!


Now I'm certainly no web master or computor buff, but I agree that serious 'in depth' client tracking is expensive. But that kind of expensive stuff tracks mega detail like what you bought and when you bought it.
To get the ability to watch who's on or has been to a site is not as expensive as you make out. You have already said you have this software for 'real' work so please don't expect us to believe that EB doesn't use it.
In fact, not too long ago, you made a post that almost said as much.

On my own site, I can see what cities the visitors come from. This is for free. I didn't even know I had this till I checked tonight.
For a few bucks more a month, I can get a lot more detail, like IP addresses, few more bucks and I can send emails to those that visited.

Ed, we've been sort of buddies for a while now and prod and poke each other every now and then so don't be upset with me. My whole point is.....if you have this ability to watch what we are doing on EB then don't rub our noses in it. Use it quietly and privately to advance EB.

You'll get a lot more respect that way:wink:

 

[witz1976]

There is a lot of info you can get for free. Simply use Google Analytics and you can for free, find where in the world your visitor is from, how many pages, how long the visit was etc. did I mention it is free? For those who use Etsy.com you can link your etsy page to google analytics, if you have your own site all you need to do if add google's code to your site.

In a way it is quite disturbing how much information you get find out without anyone's knowledge.

That being said, Ed I sincerely hope should you guys decide to implement a program such as you described I hope you have an opt in / opt out.

 

[ed4copies]

C'mon Ed, if you ask for honest feedback then the least you could do is be honest in return..

While you state quite truthfully that it ( Exotic Blanks) is Dawn's venture, it is you personally that is listed in the MVV. Ed Brown....not Ms D Kizer or Exotic Blanks, but you. So please don't say that it's not your baby too!!!


Now I'm certainly no web master or computor buff, but I agree that serious 'in depth' client tracking is expensive. But that kind of expensive stuff tracks mega detail like what you bought and when you bought it.
To get the ability to watch who's on or has been to a site is not as expensive as you make out. You have already said you have this software for 'real' work so please don't expect us to believe that EB doesn't use it.
In fact, not too long ago, you made a post that almost said as much.

On my own site, I can see what cities the visitors come from. This is for free. I didn't even know I had this till I checked tonight.
For a few bucks more a month, I can get a lot more detail, like IP addresses, few more bucks and I can send emails to those that visited.

Ed, we've been sort of buddies for a while now and prod and poke each other every now and then so don't be upset with me. My whole point is.....if you have this ability to watch what we are doing on EB then don't rub our noses in it. Use it quietly and privately to advance EB.

You'll get a lot more respect that way:wink:

As I have said many times, Steven, we speak American, you speak and probably read English fluently. However, if you ever READ that I possess this software for Pro-Copy, Inc, you might try looking for our website. Let me know if you find one, located anywhere NEAR Racine, Wi (several other Pro-Copy, Inc exist--I never bothered to try to copyright the name) that uses ANY sophisticated software. MY corporation presently has no need for a website, due to the very restricted geographical territory I have chosen to service. So, AS I PLAINLY SAID EARLIER, my interest is INTELLECTUAL CURIOSITY. I would like to LEARN more about how people PERCEIVE these features of internet software BEFORE I make any decision about when or where to EMPLOY them.

if you have this ability to watch what we are doing on EB then don't rub our noses in it.
If instead we choose to add detailed tracking, (which we don't currently have) you would prefer NOT to know it?
Yet, you have implied you already avoid Exotics because we "look over your shoulder". Make up your mind, Steven.

As an aside: I am particularly surprised at this reaction from Europe. London is awash with cameras, watching you travel down the city streets--PUBLIC walkways. Your criminals are nabbed by this system--a good thing!!! I would find this far more intrusive than a website (on the public world wide web) knowing my whereabouts.

As to the MVV, YES, I was priveleged to be selected as an MVV long before Exotics existed. Dawn registered the site in her name. We operate as a cooperative venture with many partners--Dawn administers the site and it's financial implications. My products (formerly the CATalog) are displayed there, along with many other partners and guest artists. I "promote" exotics and assist Dawn in whatever ways I can. But my blood, sweat and tears go into PCI, NOT Exotics. I am her assistant--that's my role and I am THRILLED with it.

I started this thread, because I have played this scenario in reverse on several occasions. I go to a website, select the product, dally a while, then leave.

It is not unusual to receive a coupon in my email in the next couple days, for JUST THAT PRODUCT!!!! Amazing coincidence!!!! But, I LIKE discounts--so I find this a great service. One I thought MIGHT be welcome at Exotics------

GUESS NOT

Dawn was CORRECT!!!!! and she said "Too high a creep factor"!!!!!

I'm amazed!!

 

[DennisM]

Just a couple thoughts here.

All websites offer and use tracking, unless you are hosting your server yourself. Even dedicated servers have it installed.

The hosting providers use it themselves. Now actually tracking and IP to an email address, so far there is only one program that I know about that will readily do this, and its called carnivore.

There are site statistics that are used for marketing, IP address, which only links to the provider. Locality, browser used, and o/s

The rest would have to be custom wrote to get any other information and then you are bordering on spyware and not customer tracking. Unless you opt in to having your details used or sign up for their site then that is information that is not available.,

Further, once you get into collecting data on visitors you better have a great method for securing your data, and making sure your hosting vendor is in compliance as well. Personal data falls into this area.

Heck the forum software here that we are all using tracks everything that a simple hosting will and possibly more.

The most most people want is to be able to opt in or out of any marketing programs on a website. If oyu want to offer coupons, or discounts then ask each visitor to sign up for a special mailing list, that asks for only email address and name. have them opt into it. No need to track more then that.

 

[alphageek]

I would have to say.....

If anyone thinks that they have any real privacy anymore with purchasing online or in stores - you better be VERY careful what you do.... Like pay in cash and don't even dream of using anyones reward programs.

Anything other than that and they are tracking you (like B.Buy sending my laptop a 'happy birthday' note and giving me a coupon to bring it in and speed it up). Someone else talked about Amazon... They are good for it too.

BUT... There is a flip side too.. I have known amazon to put sale prices on items that I have browsed and send me a notice. Now, I agree there is a creep factor there, but hey... if it saves money.... IF it truely becomes the best price I can find... Maybe its not all bad.

Now... That being said... if you want to be anonymous on the internet... GOOD LUCK!!!! It will cost you $$ to do so, and even then its gonna be tough... You need to a)Pick the right operating system, b) pick the right browser, c) be extremely rigorous in your settings and usage and d) use a proxy service.... and more techy stuff. Anything less and you might be able to stop people like Ed and Dawn from knowing anything about you, but you're not going to stop the big boys from tracking you.

Big brother IS watching....and I would disagree with Dennis here.. I think it takes alot less than carnivore (which is gone... look up NarusInsight) to tie email to an address.

 

[DennisM]

I would have to say.....


Big brother IS watching....and I would disagree with Dennis here.. I think it takes alot less than carnivore (which is gone... look up NarusInsight) to tie email to an address.

It takes a lot more then the avg company can afford to use is what I meant. And may not be called carnivore anymore, but trust me it is still in use and in practice. Just changed the method and delivery structure to a "private" third party.

Also the NarusInsight Intercept Suite, is not ment to be run on a individual domain from my understanding but on the back end of the isp, or withing your domain server.

Either way, you are tracked already, everyday, more then you would ever know, cell phone use, home phone, ip, websites, debit cards, rewards cards, online purchase etc...

Its the cost of convenience and government control..

 

[Padre]

Ed (and Dawn)

I have been thinking about this a lot since my earlier curt and unhelpful response.

If I am on your site, and I voluntarily sign in with my account (which I do have btw) and I am shopping, and I am adding stuff to my cart, and then my computer crashes, I have to log off for some urgent reason, or leave without logging out for whatever reason, I think it would be very nice that the next time I logged in that my cart would still be intact and I would know what I was ordering and/or interested in. I would then have the choice to keep all the items in the cart or delete, change or whatever.

I also think the ability to look up what I have ordered before would be greatly helpful. I have ordered lots of times from your site and to go back and look at those pen kits I ordered two months ago but just don't quite remember the style/name, would be GREAT! I mean many of us forget things from time to time and it is very handy to be able to see your previous orders for lots of reasons.

The only problem I have with being tracked is if I am on a site anonymously and they are tracking me and trying to get my personal info so they can email me or whatever. To me that's a no-no.

On exoticblanks.com you don't need an account to browse, and that is great. I don't think you even need an account to add stuff to a cart, but you do if you want to check out? Some sites you don't need to create an account to check out. When I go to a site and finally order, I usually do create an account just for some of the features I mentioned above.

Now, if over the past year for instance, I have ordered 50 feather blanks from you, and you are going to be closing out your feather blanks or putting them on a super sale, then I would love to get an email from you telling me that, even though I did not specifically sign up to get emails about feather blanks. I think that comes under the heading of knowing your customers and helping them out. It is still up to them to buy.

And as far as tracking what I order, when I order, and how much of each I order, that's fine with me. To me that's nothing more than sound business practice that allows you to more accurately target your customer base. If you can hone your inventory and carry those items that always sell and stock fewer of those that don't, that not only helps your overhead but it helps us, the customer, by keeping the costs/prices lower.

Ok, I've rambled enough. But that's my nickels worth of thought on this matter for tonight. I hope this helps a little.

 

[alphageek]

Ed (and Dawn)

I have been thinking about this a lot since my earlier curt and unhelpful response.

If I am on your site, and I voluntarily sign in with my account (which I do have btw) and I am shopping, and I am adding stuff to my cart, and then my computer crashes, I have to log off for some urgent reason, or leave without logging out for whatever reason, I think it would be very nice that the next time I logged in that my cart would still be intact and I would know what I was ordering and/or interested in. I would then have the choice to keep all the items in the cart or delete, change or whatever.

I first read this and went "crap - here comes some more work for me!"... however, this may not even be feasible due to limitations.. However, there might be some "mail me my cart to look at later" options.... I can do some research if there is enough interest.

I also think the ability to look up what I have ordered before would be greatly helpful. I have ordered lots of times from your site and to go back and look at those pen kits I ordered two months ago but just don't quite remember the style/name, would be GREAT! I mean many of us forget things from time to time and it is very handy to be able to see your previous orders for lots of reasons.

This is pretty straightforward.. There is a module for this... If Dawn wants this, I can tell her how to enable this.
Dean

 

[Padre]

I know they do this on Amazon when I log in, and there was one other site, and if I remember what that site was, I'll let you know.

I first read this and went "crap - here comes some more work for me!"... however, this may not even be feasible due to limitations.. However, there might be some "mail me my cart to look at later" options.... I can do some research if there is enough interest.



This is pretty straightforward.. There is a module for this... If Ed & Dawn want this, I can tell them how to enable this.
Dean

 

[David Keller]

I don't mind the tracking and emails from sites for which I've chosen to register. I'm mildly annoyed by sites that target me after casual browsing, but I don't mind so much if the emails have a simple way to opt-out. What I really hate are sites that make it very difficult to opt-out of future mailings.

I would love to be able to review old orders and maintain an active cart on the exotics website. It would help me greatly with planning future orders, and it would help me remember the name of the blank I got 6 months earlier that I want to get more of. I wish there was a way to keep track of the freebies sent for the same reason.

I'm 37 if that helps you with your generational theory.

 

[ldb2000]

To everyone who is so interested in privacy and tracking , if you use Chrome or Firefox browsers , READ their privacy statements . Google is one of the worst when it comes down to tracking where you go and what you buy and they DO sell or use this information . This is the reason they provide this software for free , this is not done out of the goodness of their hearts or to benifit all mankind , it is to make money and your information is as good as gold to them .

 

[alphageek]

I would love to be able to review old orders and maintain an active cart on the exotics website. It would help me greatly with planning future orders, and it would help me remember the name of the blank I got 6 months earlier that I want to get more of. I wish there was a way to keep track of the freebies sent for the same reason.

Well - new feature on exotics.. once you log in (sorry for the 'big brother' part, but you do have to log in) you can now see your previous orders... Unfortunately I doubt Dawn tracks freebies, and if she does I REALLY doubt she adds it to the order.... But after you log in, you can click the link called account maintenance and see your addresses and previous orders!

I just logged in and verified it for Dawn :biggrin:

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I guess I didn't follow the rules - I read the replies before posting...not what I expected for a discussion, actually...I hope it stays more on track...

Even thought I broke the rules, to keep the spirit of the post alive, I'll answer the question. In all honestly, my biggest pet peeve from Amazon is when I get an email telling me that when I happened to look at something out of curiousity, they recorded it and send me emails about similar items on sale. They rarely entice me to shop further....but I have a knee-jerk reaction to that sort of thing.

I do like coupons, but I'm not a fan of the Amazon-style 'hey, look at what's on sale in here this week, since I know you were looking at them before and were too cheap to buy it then" emails...just my personal preference, and hope it helps...

 

[markgum]

I like to browse without making an account. When I'm ready to buy, yes, I'll make the account. There is a blank on exotics I keep drooling over. I return often to look at it. However, with 2 well, now 3 cars that need repairs, and kids returning home which increases the food bill exponentially. It will be awhile before I"m able to purchase one, even with coupons. However, I keep returning to look at it. The freebies I get when I order from Exotics are always a special treat.

 

[glycerine]

I first read this and went "crap - here comes some more work for me!"... however, this may not even be feasible due to limitations.. However, there might be some "mail me my cart to look at later" options.... I can do some research if there is enough interest.



This is pretty straightforward.. There is a module for this... If Dawn wants this, I can tell her how to enable this.
Dean

Limitations? Is the website using out of the box software or is it custom coded?

 

[dow]

Limitations? Is the website using out of the box software or is it custom coded?

I believe that Dawn's site was built with Joomla!, which is an open source platform. I'm not sure of this, of course, but it has that feel.

 

[Rick_G]

My domain allows me 500 email addresses I have about 50 of them in use right now. When I have to give an email address to get something I want from a site no problem, I make up a new one specifically for that site. I start getting emails to that address from someone else or inundated with junk mail from them the address is gone. It's a little extra work but when I open up my email now I don't have 50 emails trying to get me to buy something or help some poor Nigerian get his money out of the country.

I also delete the cookies regularily so when I go back to a site later no cookie no link to what I was looking at the last time I was there.

If you are going to use the internet there is no privacy, everything you do can be tracked by someone somewhere. Doing what I do limits the intrusions into my daily life.

 

[alphageek]

I believe that Dawn's site was built with Joomla!, which is an open source platform. I'm not sure of this, of course, but it has that feel.

Yep.. You are correct. Using Joomla and virtuemart for a base, it is possible to build a site like Dawns. However, making major 'custom' modifications is risky both from testing and upgrading to newer versions. Therefore it is best to stick to the developed and tested functions whenever possible, especially in key areas.