Possibly a better alternative to the HF Pressure Pot?

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

vtgaryw

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
657
Location
Milton, VT
I haven't bought a pressure pot yet, so I looked at the two of these closely. It's hard to believe they aren't the same basic tank, looking at some of the details.

Although, the picture of the Shop Fox shows a 2" section of weld at two different places around the bottom of the pot. Strange...

Gary
 

Crashmph

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
1,515
Location
South Riding, VA
I haven't bought a pressure pot yet, so I looked at the two of these closely. It's hard to believe they aren't the same basic tank, looking at some of the details.

Although, the picture of the Shop Fox shows a 2" section of weld at two different places around the bottom of the pot. Strange...

Gary

That is just a collar ring added to the bottom to make it stand up straight. The pot is actually teardrop shaped so it will not have a welded seam to cause a week point.
 

sbell111

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
3,465
Location
Franklin, TN
I assume that the pot itself has a curved bottom and that they've welded on a skirt or false bottom to give it a flat bottom.
 

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,904
Location
Georgia
I am calling Binks tomorrow. I heard theirs was the best. If it is possible to purchase without the gadgetry that I am likely to replace, perhaps it will lower the cost.

I asked Amazon about the Shop and Grizzly pots; they said they are made overseas.
 

sbell111

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
3,465
Location
Franklin, TN
Binks makes some fine pots, but their basic 2 gallon model is rated at 80 psi max, just like the HF one. Also, I can't find anything on their website that brags that it's made in America, so it's probably not. It would not surprise me to find that these are made in the same factory as the HF ones.
 

edstreet

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
3,684
Location
No longer confused....
I am calling Binks tomorrow. I heard theirs was the best. If it is possible to purchase without the gadgetry that I am likely to replace, perhaps it will lower the cost.

I asked Amazon about the Shop and Grizzly pots; they said they are made overseas.


45 psi or 80 psi, it's all low pressure and really it's quite worthless to compare because you are getting caught up and side tracked from the real issue of using a pressure pot. It's still 2 bar difference, even at the high end it's a whopping 5 1/2 bars while the low end is at best 3 bars.
 
Last edited:

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,904
Location
Georgia
Good points. The motivation for my inquiries (to Binks, etc.) is due to the opinions shared by some, but not all, that the American-made pots or the more expensive pots are safer, and better made. I am most interested in safety (not pressure capacity). Having said, I modified my friend's HF pot and have been in his shop while casting under pressure. I do understand that something can go wrong with a $1,000 pot the same way a $80 pot can "fail". I like doing the research.
 

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
Binks makes some fine pots, but their basic 2 gallon model is rated at 80 psi max, just like the HF one. Also, I can't find anything on their website that brags that it's made in America, so it's probably not. It would not surprise me to find that these are made in the same factory as the HF ones.

I can assure you, based on the 4 Binks pots I own, they are indeed made in USA. Also, they are ASME CERTIFIED to 80 psi by a third party certification company, not rated to 80 psi. There is a huge difference. Each of my pots have been sent to a third party company who tested each and every one of them, then certified them. Each of my pots have the name of the certification company, a unique serial number, the certification date, and the certified pressure stamped into the steel of the pot. The HF pot was rated (not certified) by some Chinese dude who thought that number sounded good that day!:biggrin:

I have had a number of HF pots in my shop as well as my Binks. The difference is night and day. The lid on my Binks pot weighs more than the entire HF pot with lid. This is not a guess, I actually weighed them both when I got my first Binks pot.

Here is a picture of the certification stamp on one of my pots to back up what I am saying:

attachment.php


And here is a picture of one of the clamps with USA cast into it:
attachment.php


I did not find a made in USA stamp on the pot itself but I do remember reading it in the literature that was in the pot when I got it. Besides, when new, it did not smell like cosmoline so I am sure it came from the US! :)
 

Attachments

  • binks cert.jpg
    binks cert.jpg
    54.8 KB · Views: 669
  • clamp.jpg
    clamp.jpg
    61.4 KB · Views: 695

sbell111

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
3,465
Location
Franklin, TN
Binks makes some fine pots, but their basic 2 gallon model is rated at 80 psi max, just like the HF one. Also, I can't find anything on their website that brags that it's made in America, so it's probably not. It would not surprise me to find that these are made in the same factory as the HF ones.

I can assure you, based on the 4 Binks pots I own, they are indeed made in USA. Also, they are ASME CERTIFIED to 80 psi by a third party certification company, not rated to 80 psi. There is a huge difference. Each of my pots have been sent to a third party company who tested each and every one of them, then certified them. Each of my pots have the name of the certification company, a unique serial number, the certification date, and the certified pressure stamped into the steel of the pot. The HF pot was rated (not certified) by some Chinese dude who thought that number sounded good that day!:biggrin:

I have had a number of HF pots in my shop as well as my Binks. The difference is night and day. The lid on my Binks pot weighs more than the entire HF pot with lid. This is not a guess, I actually weighed them both when I got my first Binks pot.

Here is a picture of the certification stamp on one of my pots to back up what I am saying:

attachment.php


And here is a picture of one of the clamps with USA cast into it:
attachment.php


I did not find a made in USA stamp on the pot itself but I do remember reading it in the literature that was in the pot when I got it. Besides, when new, it did not smell like cosmoline so I am sure it came from the US! :)
As I mentioned in my other post, Binks makes some fine pots. Yours are probably awesome. That being said, the rest of my post was referring to their basic 2 gallon pot which, based on the pictures on their website and the ones in your post, is not the same as the ones that you own. Still, their basic ones might be made in the USA. Like I posted before, my quick scan of their website didn't find that info.

(It should also be noted that regardless of the colorful commentary in your post, 80 psi is 80 psi, which is far more pressure than we need to cast blanks, anyway.)
 
Last edited:

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,904
Location
Georgia
I don't know what double-plugging is but we added a "better" quality 60 psi safety valve to the paint suction hole (removed/unscrewed the siphon tube) using 3/8 male by 1/4 brass adapter/bushing. Then screwed-in the male-threaded safety valve.

Where the HF regulator used to be, I added a brass (3-way) tee; to the left of the tee, I added a ball-valve to control the air-inflow from the compressor (we also use it to release air assuming we want a more controlled pressure release than the safety valve provides). To the right side of the tee, I added the HF gauge which I am thinking of replacing with a better quality one. All fittings are secured with Teflon tape and a quick-disconnect was added to the air-intake/outtake ball valve.
I tested under pressure (45 psi) connections using Windex several times over several days.

Did I double-plug anything? Should I have double-plugged something? If so what?

Thanks for the question/answer.
 

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
Not sure that you can get any more basic than the ones I own. I just took a look at their site and don't see any lower model. Mine are 83C-210 models from the PT zinc plated series.
 

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,904
Location
Georgia
Binks

Not sure that you can get any more basic than the ones I own. I just took a look at their site and don't see any lower model. Mine are 83C-210 models from the PT zinc plated series.

Thanks Curtis. I spoke to them today, that is the most basic for that size. With MSC's discount, it comes to $466.

Do you like the zinc better than the SS?
 

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
I would see no reason at all to spend the exta money on ss. I believe they are a LOT more expensive. I have a Graco ASME Certified 5 gallon stainless pot and do not find the stainless any better than the zinc.
 

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
Tony, I believe you can do better than $466 on that pot. Here are a couple options:

SARBCO.com $336 I know nothing about this company but they do at least have their phone number on their site so you could call them.
 

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
OK Steve:) BTW, he does not even own a pressure pot yet and the Binks pot will come with its own 80 psi pressure relief valve
 
Last edited:

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
Tony, for some reason, the site linked above does not link directly to the page with the pot. I am unable to get a direct link but here is their part number. You can click on search and enter this and it will bring it right up: 114843
 

ElMostro

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
1,940
Location
San Antonio, TX.
Hmm, I think that the quality of the Binks tanks must be in decline. For starters they use at least one Chinese part; the pressure gauge. So being a Chinese part "that can't be trusted" (maybe it's reading 80 psi but it really is more or less?) Needless to say, I took the gauge off my Binks and put it on my old HF pot. If you look the pic you will see the Binks brand in the gauge dial and a "Made in China" sticker on the top of the gauge. I also looked for any "Made in USA" stamps on the binks pot itself and found none, although the clamps are stamped with "USA". I also weighed the lid on my binks and it weighed 6.8 LBS, my HF pot weighs 16.8 lbs, that is 10 lbs more than the binks lid. To compare I weighed the lid on my 15 Gallon binks which is much larger than the 2.5 gallon Binks and it weighed 18.4 pounds...just 1.6 pounds more that the entire HF pot. So is binks now using cheaper/lighter steel...maybe Chinese steel?
 

Attachments

  • DSC08229.JPG
    DSC08229.JPG
    73.7 KB · Views: 192

BJohn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
820
Location
Cabot, Arkansas
Tony, just finished my HF pot last night (actually night before) but last night i rearranged my fittings and pressurized it. All seems fine can't wait to get started casting some Alumilite.
 

BJohn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
820
Location
Cabot, Arkansas
Glad you mentioned the gauge on the HF pot, when I first pressurized the pot last night it seemed like it got up to 40psi real quick. A lot faster then when I thought then it kind of slowed down.

I have another guage think I will swap them out and do a comparison.

Like Curtis I see you in a couple of weeks at SWAT.
 

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,904
Location
Georgia
That gauge may be fine, and is still the one in use today. I am more concerned about it blowing. There are folks on here that have been pressurizing stuff for many more years than I have (I am going on two weeks on and off....it's not even my pot; I made it for a friend). I would rely much more heavily on the advice and experience of others. If I do buy/make a pot, it is likely to be a non-HF. Perhaps, I am throwing money out the window, but that is what i want to do with this piece of equipment. Enjoy!
 

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
Hmm, I think that the quality of the Binks tanks must be in decline. For starters they use at least one Chinese part; the pressure gauge. So being a Chinese part "that can't be trusted" (maybe it's reading 80 psi but it really is more or less?) Needless to say, I took the gauge off my Binks and put it on my old HF pot. If you look the pic you will see the Binks brand in the gauge dial and a "Made in China" sticker on the top of the gauge. I also looked for any "Made in USA" stamps on the binks pot itself and found none, although the clamps are stamped with "USA". I also weighed the lid on my binks and it weighed 6.8 LBS, my HF pot weighs 16.8 lbs, that is 10 lbs more than the binks lid. To compare I weighed the lid on my 15 Gallon binks which is much larger than the 2.5 gallon Binks and it weighed 18.4 pounds...just 1.6 pounds more that the entire HF pot. So is binks now using cheaper/lighter steel...maybe Chinese steel?

Not too worried about my gauge blowing up! Mine have different gauges than what you show in your picture. Mine do not have the made in China on the sticker. However, after purchasing over 1,000 vacuum gauges and being very familiar with gauge construction and quality, I would guess the gauges on my pot came from China too. Regardless, this does not surprise or concern me. Binks makes pressure pots, not gauges and again, I am not too worried about my gauge blowing up!

Not being able to find any USA stamps on my pots either, I decided to call Binks and find out first hand rather than supposition. I talked to a fellow in tech support in Indiana. He assure me that all of their pressure pots are indeed made in the USA and that every part of the pot itself is made in USA.

As for the weights, it has been a number of years since I destroyed my remaining HF pots after my lid blow off mishap so I can not double check. I do remember weighing them when I first got the Binks pots. I did it because the Binks lid just felt so much more substantial than the HF. Then again, there have been at least two different versions of HF pots sold. I have personally worked on two completely different versions over the years. However, two of my Binks pots were purchased two years earlier than the other two and they are identical so I doubt Binks has changed anything. Regardless, the code they are certified to has not changed any.

Basically, I am an admitted tool snob.:) I have made my living with tools my entire life and I firmly subscribe to the philosophy that "Only a rich man can afford cheap tools". I do know the Binks pots are made to a much higher standard than the HF pots and really appreciate the fact that my "bombs" are certified by a third party USA company (with USA liability insurance requirements) to American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) code not to blow up at 80 psi day in and day out. That gives me peace of mind and is worth the $250 difference to me.
 

MesquiteMan

Retired Head Moderator
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,678
Location
San Marcos, TX, USA.
Oh, and it seems that many have missed the underlying fundamentals of my posts on pressure pots. It does not matter to me where they are made. It is the ASME CERTIFICATION that is the difference for me. I would not have an issue buying a China made pot if it was ASME certified instead of just being rated by some Chinese engineer.

Remember, I have been in the same room when a pressure pot lid blew off. Regardless of whose fault it was or why it happened, I can assure you that if it has happened to you, you too would be gun shy and looking for something better than a cheap Chinese copy (yes, the HF pot design is a copy of the Binks pot). I was finding pieces of the plywood rack months later around my shop. Thank the good Lord I was not standing next to it or I would most likely not be here!

Yes, my failure was most likely due to the modifications I had to make to keep the clamps from digging into the lid, thus keeping it from sealing properly. However, after much more use with my Binks pots, I have not had the need to make any modifications. The steel is that much thicker that I am not running into any problems with the clamps to where I would need to add reinforcements.

So, if you don't mind taking the risks in order to save $250, then the HF pot is golden for you. Myself, I will stick to higher quality, American made, ASME certified pots.
 

sbell111

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
3,465
Location
Franklin, TN
I think that you stated it quite well. I don't modify how my clamps work, so those modifications cannot cause my pot to fail. Therefore, my concerns about my HF pot failing are greatly reduced. This along with always going through my personal 'proper tool use' checklist every time I use this tool and casting using much less pressure than 80 psi makes me super comfortable in continuing to use my HF pot.
 
Last edited:

Ice31

Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
50
Location
Central Illinois
Ok guys.....you have sparked an extreme interest with me on this topic. I have two HF pots...so you have successfully pulled me in. I happen to manage a welding business that possesses an R-Stamp. Which means that we can repair and modify ASME pressure vessels.
- I am going to take a pot to work and put it through the testing requirements per the National Board Inspection Code (NBIC) just like we were going to tag a real alteration.

- I'll have our engineer run the calculations on the HF pot as built to see what the pressure specs come out to be.

- We'll test the weld sizes and do a full hydro test (1.5 times the MAWP) to verify engineering design (I'll make sure to use a certified gage for quality assurance)

We'll see if we can get this thing to pop or if it is up to snuff with the engineering calcs. I may be blowing $80 but it'll be fun to see what happens. And then my mind will be at ease with my HF pot use. I'll post my findings......
 

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,904
Location
Georgia
That is nice of you to do that under the right conditions (especially safety). I am going to get a $200 pot, unless you bless this one. Nothing like a little pressure (pun intended!). Teasing of course.
 

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,904
Location
Georgia
I would be delighted to contribute $25 toward your research if the pot is not fit for use after your testing or if it fails. I will send you a vendor GC of your choice. Honor system. Thanks again!
 

Ice31

Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
50
Location
Central Illinois
I would be delighted to contribute $25 toward your research if the pot is not fit for use after your testing or if it fails. I will send you a vendor GC of your choice. Honor system. Thanks again!

Tony,

Thank you for the nice gesture...no need for all that. Just happy to do my part. I almost popped on a $200 Binks on craigslist but opted for the HF instead...and somehow in the ordering process HF messed up and sent me two pots. I called them to inform them and send it back or pay for it and they said just to keep it. So I have a spare...I'll use it for this little project. I'll take pics to show our process. I'll take me a day or so to get the calcs back and get everything completed.

Aaron
 

TonyL

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
8,904
Location
Georgia
Still nice of you. If I do use the hf, I will Change the fittings, safety, and guage. Which may bRing the cost up to 200 plus. We will see I guess. Thanks again
 

Ice31

Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
50
Location
Central Illinois
Still nice of you. If I do use the hf, I will Change the fittings, safety, and guage. Which may bRing the cost up to 200 plus. We will see I guess. Thanks again

yeah...I stripped mine down to the couplings....bought some brass fittings used the included TEE....added a ball valve and quick disconnect for the air inlet/outlet..found some good safety valves on Amazon...I tried a couple different ones. What I have found out is that the pop offs rated for 60psi release around 50-55psi...so I've looked at adjustable pop offs so I can dial in the setting that allows me to pressure up to 60psi without bleeding off or releasing.
 

Curly

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
4,828
Location
Saskatoon SK., Canada.
It would cost more for the tests but it would be interesting to know what the alloys used in the pot and lid are and how close they conform chemically and heat treat wise to the ones made on this continent. Disproving or confirmation of the oft made remarks about Chinese metals. ;)
 

Ice31

Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
50
Location
Central Illinois
It would cost more for the tests but it would be interesting to know what the alloys used in the pot and lid are and how close they conform chemically and heat treat wise to the ones made on this continent. Disproving or confirmation of the oft made remarks about Chinese metals. ;)

I could run a PMI on the pot, but I"m not sure the $200 would be that well spent. I'll call the testing lab that I use and see if they will cut me a deal for the sake of personal endeavor and because I spend a lot of money with them already....I'll let you know
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

edstreet

Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
3,684
Location
No longer confused....
It would cost more for the tests but it would be interesting to know what the alloys used in the pot and lid are and how close they conform chemically and heat treat wise to the ones made on this continent. Disproving or confirmation of the oft made remarks about Chinese metals. ;)

I could run a PMI on the pot, but I"m not sure the $200 would be that well spent. I'll call the testing lab that I use and see if they will cut me a deal for the sake of personal endeavor and because I spend a lot of money with them already....I'll let you know


Hate to break bubbles or anything and I am not trying to derail what is going on here but I think we both know the burst pressure of these pots and the outcome of the test. Regardless of the number range or even the material type that it is there are a good hefty number of questions which will not be answered by doing these tests. By all means do the test if you want but ask yourself these: Do they conform to a strict standard in which the material type MUST be adhered to and what is the spec on the material composition? We both know they can and will change according to lot numbers so any testing that you perform does not equate to every pot that is sold conforming to the same spec.

The other issue in this is lets say you do arrive at the burst pressure, which is actually easy to find without doing these test :) what is to stop people here from seeing that data then performing some grossly unsafe practices because of it? Citing this thread as proof of reliability and be in the unsafe region with a false sense of security.


The simple fact remains it's not about what pressure they will explode at or what material they are composed of. Any student of hyperbarics can very quickly spot the weakness in this approach.
 
Top Bottom