Stabilized or raw??

[massman]

I've been at this for less than two years and have been purchasing about 90% of all my wood from one seller on ebay. I do buy his Amboyna Burl when I need to or have the extra cash. His wood is not stabilized and I usually throw it into a jerky machine for a day or two to really make sure its dry. I just bought some stabilized Amboyna on line from a different guy. His pictures showed it raw but I didn't read about him stabilizing it AFTER the purchase I received it yesterday and at first thought he sent the wrong wood.

What are the benefits of stabilization? I know one draw back is the loss of color to the piece. Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[alamocdc]

Bernie, some burls have a tendency to come apart if they aren't stabilized. I've never had a problem with any Amboyna, but have heard from others who have. Other burls I wouldn't even think about turning unless they were stabilized. They turn much like any dense wood and finish up beautifully. You should have any problems.

 

[aurrida]

i agree with the instability of burls. i aways end up strengthening with thin ca on un-stabilized. but you can at least have an idea of how the wood looks with un-stabilized.

the benefits for using stabilized for me are, they are easier to turn and finish well. but you cant see what your getting till its turned.

still hopefully be a nice surprise.

 

[edstreet]

Bernie,

Few things you need to know.

A) that seller you bought it from does indeed have some superb amboyna burl. However, the 'stabilizing' they do is *NOT* stabilizing at all and with amboyna burl it does not penetrate that well at all. Even the pro shops like WSSI has problems stabilizing amboyna burl. Amboyna burl is a dense wood and the sapwood (NOT the red stuff) is easier to stabilize than the red stuff.

B) stabilized woods that's done correctly will not take stain and can polish up like a CA finish.

C) soft woods, like sap wood, super super soft stuff, major spalted and the like, many types of ebony, etc.. can not be used unless they are stabilized. Once processed the grain will not raise, they will be less prone to warping, bowing, cracking and shrinking.

D) woods with a high oil content, i.e. cocobolo, teak, desert ironwood, some walnut, etc.. will not stabilized that well due to the oil content. Many of these will not truly 'dry'

Also when you get wood from many vendors that has been stabilized or if you use a pro shop like WSSI you will get it back in a rough form and it looks like you droped glaze all over the block but you can easily sand that off and polish it up quit nicely.

Pre stabilized.

Post Stabilized.

These 3 sets were stabilized at WSSI.

This is a good example of wood you would not want to use before it was stabilized because it is very soft, read you can cut and chip the wood with your fingernail in this example. After stabilizing they work quite well.

Hope this helps.

Ed

 

[Russianwolf]

there was a topic recently about a guy that sells "stabelized" blanks on ebay that has a VERY poor reputation. I hope this wasn't purchased from him.

 

[RussFairfield]

Stabilizing does darken the wood color, and it can get really dark if the solution had a lot of wood processed through it before the lighter colored wood.

I do a sort of stabilizing on my own if I have a wood that I really want to keep the color as close to original as possible.

The 1st step is to soak the blanks in a solution of 50/50 Elmers white glue and water for 3 or 4 days, and then let it dry for a week. This hardens up soft and punky wood to where it can be drilled, tubed, and turned to round.

Once round, I use a liberal amount of "Thin" CA glue to harden the wood, and add more glue as I cut through the previous glue.

Then the wood is sanded and finished with CA glue.

The advantage of doing it this way is that the pens will be the lighter colors as shown in Ed's "before" pictures, and not the darker color as shown in his pictures of the wood after stabilization.

It usually takes no more than an extra ounce of the CA thin glue, so the cost is about the same as that for stabilization.

 

[Fred]

IMHO there are some vastky misinformed folks on E-bay that use the term "stabilized."

Stabilization processes use different chemicals to make soft, punky wood much more solid. Those vendors using chemicals like Pentacryl are not actually stabilizing wood, but instead they are controlling the drying process of the wood. Pentacryl is, as the directions state, to be used primarily on green wood to control checking, cracking, splitting, etc. that occur when the wood drys. These cracks, etc. are a natural happening in most woods, some are much worse to crack than others ... Pentacryl does an excellent job in helping to somewhat control this destructive process.

But on the other hand so does Steven Russell's method of boiling the green wood. Go here and read his article on BOILING WOOD ... http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/woodturning-education-articles.html

Stabilization processes are a completely different process entirely and used on woods with 10% or less moisture content. Although the wood is protected with both processes, stabilization enhances the wood grain, allows otherwise difficult to turn wood to be worked better, protects the wood from moisture, oils, dirt, staining, etc.

I have found woods that have been treated with Pentacryl to be somewhat difficult to apply different types of finishes to. The wood takes on a completely different kind of surface characteristics that I personally do not like much at all. To me the wood seems to have the appearance of being oiled down whereas stabilized wood is totally different in looks and feel.

I wish those folks that use Pentacryl would state their wood is "protected" and quit saying it is "stabilized" as to many that know better the terms are not interchangeable. Used the wrong way they are also somewhat misleading to those that have never seen the two processes used side by side. There is a vast difference in the end results.

So, depending on what type of finish I intend on using I will just about 100% of the time use stabilization woods vs. anything soaked in Pentacryl. Both processes have their place in this world and this can only be determined by the end user - experience dictates which to use.

My $.02 worth and I don't give any change.

 

[edstreet]

This is perhaps one of the best threads I have seen to date. Perhaps we should get it moved over to the tips/tricks/FAQ pages because the info here is really good.

Ed

 

[R2]

Well this has been an informative thread for me. Thanks everyone!!

 

[massman]

I appreciate the insight from all and I have learned alot. The problem I have is that one picture is from the exact ebay post that I paid over $30.00 for to fill a job. The other picture is what I received after being stabilized. I normaly buy all my exotic woods from Rivers Edge Exotic on ebay and the Amboyna Burl I buy from them looks like the stuff I thought I was buying. The question I have for this man is why not stabalize it then take the picture?? I think I know the answer.

 

[edstreet]

Bernie,

This is the problem you will get with many/most wood suppliers. You have several things going on here that gives some problems, first off the seller has bad photo's, second they *SHOULD* be stabilized before the picture is taken and third there is no post 'whatever they call stabilizing' cleanup. I am not sure what he is using on the wood but I do know it is *NOT* effective.

Do this. go down to home depot and buy you a bottle of 'feed-n-wax' and put a small drop on the wood when you are finished sanding it and I guarantee you will see some super rich depth to the wood, this is not exclusive to his processing because at that point the chemicals he uses are removed from the wood.

This is some I bought from the same seller. I just bought some more and ask him *NOT* to stabilize it, will see how it looks when I get it.

They will add mineral oil or similar to bring out the details to take a photo which is what this seller did.

BTW they will clean up to look like this. (not the same set above)

On this one I used the feed-n-wax stuff which really made the biggest difference.

Ed

 

[MikeInMo]

I'm curious. What is feed-n-wax? What's in it? What is its stated use? How does it affect various finishes? It sounds like it is a liquid.

 

[edstreet]

http://www.howardproducts.com/feednwax.htm

contains (among other things) beeswax, carnuaba wax and orange oil. On purple heart it will bring out the color instantly and keep it that color over time. What I have found there is no aging or color shifting. It's more like lotion but in a liquid form.

stated use:

* Enhance the natural beauty and depth of grain in finished and unfinished wood

* Prevent drying and deterioration of all wood finishes

* Polish all wood surfaces to a soft luster and protect with a coating of natural waxes

* Use to maintain the restored finish after using Restor-A-Finish

 

[Larry Gottlieb]

I use quite a bit of raw cherry burl and heavily spalted maple. After I drill the blanks, I drip thin CA glue into the cavity as I rotate the blank. After dried (a few minutes) I glue in the tubes with polyurethane.
During the turning, I apply thin CA as needed. I finish with CA as a sealer and a final finish.

Larry