Slightly squished tubes in a cast PR blank

[thewishman]

Got a really cool set of blanks and was trimming them when I noticed that my pilot shaft wouldn't go easily into one end of each blank. The shaft did fit well into the opposite ends. Now that the trimming is done, I cannot get the bushings into those "tight" ends, they are just a bit out of round.

Do you have any idea how to get them closer to round? I've tried to push transfer punches through and am going to try squeezing the opposite direction with a vise (no, not a "vice"). Do you have any ideas for a better fix?

Not looking to point the blame finger (heck, I could have been the squisher):redface: just want to turn these COOL blanks

 

[Daniel]

You may be right about the tube being out of round, could have happened before they where cast. I would also suspect that maybe the end of the tube could be flared as well. a lot of people doing casting buy long tubes and then cut them to length. the cutting can squash the end a bit. you may be able to just ream the very end of the tube. And I mean just the very end. not the first 1/4 inch or even the first 1/16 inch. I have a really nifty tool I got from someone here on the IAP for doing this but if I did not have that I also have the HF 115 pc drill bit set and am always able to find a bit that fits inside most brass tubes. if you get a bit that fits failry tight in the non crushed end you can run that bit all the way through. basically it iwll cut out the tube so that bushing will fit. not a perfect repaire but may be enough to get a pen made after all.

 

[mredburn]

If you take a steel rod that will fit inside the tube loosely and cut a slit across it down about 1 inch you can make a sanding mandrel. Cut a strip of 200 grit no coarser; and about 1 in wide 6 inches long and tuck one end in the slit and wrap it around the rod and chuck it up in a hand drill, Dremel may make one that fits their tools. I have some ready made that come from jewelry supply houses. You can then sand the inside of the tube. You may want to drop down to 320 or 400 grit. do If you over sand the tube epoxy the parts when assembling them. I

 

[snyiper]

I use a round file for chain saw sharpening to clean out insides

 

[Mr Vic]

Hit up your local gun store, one that sells reloading equipment. Pic up a cartridge reamimg tool. My pen mill has a tendence to roll in the ends of the tubes. A couple of twists and your in business.

 

[rherrell]

Did they happen to have feathers on them? Because if they did, the same thing happened to me. I spent about 20 minutes with a round file and never could get them right. I got the bushings to fit but it was OOR when I turned it. Not ALOT, so I was able to save it, but even a LITTLE OOR will ruin your day.:wink:

 

[mrcook4570]

Just squish the bushings and components to match the tubes

 

[thewishman]

Just squish the bushings and components to match the tubes

Thanks, Stan.:tongue:

 

[NewLondon88]

If you take a steel rod that will fit inside the tube loosely and cut a slit across it down about 1 inch you can make a sanding mandrel.

I do something similar, but I use a cotter pin in the Dremel chuck. Put a
strip of sandpaper in the slit and use it like a flap wheel on the inside of
the tube. Same idea, but it saves you the trouble of trying to cut a slit
in a piece of steel.

 

[ed4copies]

Got a really cool set of blanks and was trimming them when I noticed that my pilot shaft wouldn't go easily into one end of each blank. The shaft did fit well into the opposite ends. Now that the trimming is done, I cannot get the bushings into those "tight" ends, they are just a bit out of round.

Do you have any idea how to get them closer to round? I've tried to push transfer punches through and am going to try squeezing the opposite direction with a vise (no, not a "vice"). Do you have any ideas for a better fix?

Not looking to point the blame finger (heck, I could have been the squisher):redface: just want to turn these COOL blanks

Ya know, you just gotta LUV guys that are THIS considerate. BUT, I didn't read this thread until now and I suspect JohnU hasn't read it either. Today, Chris sent me a PM, calling it to my attention.

C'mon guys, I have no problem helping you with this type of issue. JohnU will get back to me (now that I have PM'd him) and we will replace the blanks. Clearly there is a problem with the ones you got.

IF ANYONE ELSE HAS "OUT OF ROUND" PLEASE NOTIFY ME!

John has made MANY blanks for us and will continue to do so. If you get one that has a problem, let us KNOW!!!

I can assure you we will replace any blanks that have a problem. But you don't have to be QUITE so CAREFUL about how you say it----


In the words of Johnny Cochran, "If the blank don't fit, its good for spit!!" And we will be HAPPY to make it right.



Thanks to Chris and Rick for being so gentle!!!

 

[BigShed]

Get a .248" chucking reamer from someone like Enco

 

[ed4copies]

Fred,

While that may work, it may also crack the resin, while trying to reshape the tube.

We will be HAPPY to replace. I am confident John did not know the tube was mis-shapen, but I am equally confident he will agree with my judgment, here.

John takes a great deal of pride in his product, as he should. But, he makes a lot of them, so an occasional "ooops" is bound to happen.

 

[JohnU]

Thank You Ed for bringing this to my attention. I apoligize to those who have received a blank with this problem and appreciate all the feedback from those trying to help. Im not sure what happen with the tubes but will check my inventory and get with Ed to make this right. I want to make sure EVERYONE is happy. I will replace any blanks if there is a problem so please let me or Ed know. Again, sorry for the problems, John

 

[NewLondon88]

Now THIS is customer service..

 

[thewishman]

Not looking to point the blame finger (heck, I could have been the squisher):redface: just want to turn these COOL blanks

OK, so I post a general question with an un-named source and all of a sudden a supplier gets named publicly. That was NOT my intention. My intention was to turn this blank and make a beautiful pen.

Thankfully, this situation worked out. John and Ed, thank you for being so gracious - I apologize for any embarrassment this may have caused.



John,the blanks are gorgeous (grouse 6C Jr.) and Ed, the order was delivered by the date you announced it would be shipped. You guys rock!

 

[ed4copies]

OK, so I post a general question with an un-named source and all of a sudden a supplier gets named publicly. That was NOT my intention. My intention was to turn this blank and make a beautiful pen.

Thankfully, this situation worked out. John and Ed, thank you for being so gracious - I apologize for any embarrassment this may have caused.



John,the blanks are gorgeous (grouse 6C Jr.) and Ed, the order was delivered by the date you announced it would be shipped. You guys rock!

Chris,

We can only improve if we KNOW our shortcomings!!!!

NO apology and YES it should be made public in case anyone else has a problem!!!

THANKS to you and Rick!!! Now go pick your replacement, darnit!!!

 

[mredburn]

How well does this work when I have an oor tube in a pr blank? can I get more free blanks?:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[ed4copies]

Chris,

We can only improve if we KNOW our shortcomings!!!!

NO apology and YES it should be made public in case anyone else has a problem!!!

THANKS to you and Rick!!! Now go pick your replacement, darnit!!!

THANK you!! Got your PM.

 

[ed4copies]

Chris---Replacement in the mail, first class pkg.

Where are you Rick???

 

[workinforwood]

I have serious doubts that there was really an issue with the original tube. I think the tube was squished a little bit while in the pot. I have had the exact same problems. I have been checking the tubes before and after. I can get my bushings to fit no problem in the tubes, then I cast them and the bushings will not fit. I have to file and file and file and eventually they fit. While John is a really nice guy and will make you a new blank, I am not going to be able to offer the same service unless you do absolutely everything possible to make the pen work first. The situation is happening to me 90% of the time, so if I replace a tube cast, I'll probably be replacing it for the rest of my life. I barrel trimmed the autumn blanks. They still have to be chamfered and filed inside. There can be a bit of paint in there, and the tubes are tight from the pressure, so they need a good filing. Once you get the tubes filed down enough that the bushings will fit..and they could be a tight fit..spray a bit of cooking oil inside the tubes, then push the bushings in. My blanks won't just break if the fit is a little tight..a lot tight perhaps they will, but not if it's just a little tight. The bushings will heat up and expand the tubes a bit while spinning on the lathe, and the oil will help the bushings come out of the tube. You can finish the pen, and then prior to assembly, the oil in the tubes can be removed with soapy water. I have had this problem with John's blanks, Dawns snake skins and Gary's Carbon Fiber pens. When you purchase a tube cast blank, be prepared to work inside the tubes. Consider it your prep work time, for not having to make whatever is on the tube and the corking, casting and cutting of the blank. Tube casting is a nasty business. If the parts end up a bit loose when you are all done..a tiny bit of 5 min epoxy will fix it. Everyone I ever sold one of these too had to work the inside of the tubes, and not one person broke their pen, they only had success. And I know..I am not at question in this post, but could easily have been or could be down the road. The tight tubes are just the nature of the beast.

 

[BigShed]

Jeff, I seriousy suggest you try the chucking reamer, it is a lot faster and a lot more predictable than a file.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=334-4078&PMPXNO=2614678&PARTPG=INLMK32

 

[ed4copies]

Actually, I have turned Jeff's blanks (a few) and never noticed this. However, I DO use the above reamer, routinely, in all my turning. After you face the ends, you have distorted the brass, using the reamer takes the brass out of the tube and opens the holes.

So, I agree it is (or should be) a normal part of making a pen. As to cracking the resin, I've never had it happen, but I'm not putting a lot of pressure on the reamer, just cleaning the hole. (The gun reamers have fairly sharp fins that work easily and quickly).

 

[workinforwood]

I will be happy to purchase that reamer..I've actually been meaning to, but before I do, I have to ask what it is for? I don't mean, what it does, I mean what is it for..a sierra, a Gent? If it's for a gent, there would be two reamer sizes would there not..one for the pen one for the cap? If I am right..those are the two sizes I would want..so what are the two sizes for a gent pen reamer?

 

[ed4copies]

Mine is v shaped. Works on every pen I have ever tried, right up to the Emperor.

I bought it either at WalMart or Gander Mountain.

 

[bkersten]

I will be happy to purchase that reamer..I've actually been meaning to, but before I do, I have to ask what it is for? I don't mean, what it does, I mean what is it for..a sierra, a Gent? If it's for a gent, there would be two reamer sizes would there not..one for the pen one for the cap? If I am right..those are the two sizes I would want..so what are the two sizes for a gent pen reamer?

I just got a hand held reamer at HF for $3-4, and it came with 2 additional magnetic snap in sizes. I've only used one size so far as it fits tubes from Majestics to 7mm's. It tapers the entrance angle of the tube. Just a twist will do it. Didn't realize it made things that easy to insert for years.
Here's a link on what I use. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=98442 Bob

 

[BigShed]

I will be happy to purchase that reamer..I've actually been meaning to, but before I do, I have to ask what it is for? I don't mean, what it does, I mean what is it for..a sierra, a Gent? If it's for a gent, there would be two reamer sizes would there not..one for the pen one for the cap? If I am right..those are the two sizes I would want..so what are the two sizes for a gent pen reamer?

Jeff, the one I linked to is for the slimline tubes, you would of course need one for each size of tube you use. As the range of reamers is extensive it wouldn't be hard to match the reamer to the ID of the tube in the blank.

These reamers are not like the tapered ones, I use those as well for cleaning up the inside of the end of tubes, but they have parallel cutting surfaces. Ideal for cleaning up slightly out of round tubes, getting rid of any glue inside the tube and resizing the ID of tubes after soldering them inside a rifle cartridge.

As for which sizes you need for each kit, Wayne Racinowski has produced a very comprehensive chart of tube sizes, it is available for download in the library.

 

[workinforwood]

Mine is v shaped. Works on every pen I have ever tried, right up to the Emperor.

I bought it either at WalMart or Gander Mountain.

If it is V shaped, then it is not a reamer but a chamfer tool, correct? A reamer would go all the way into the tube and there would be a specific reamer for each size hole..and that's why reamers are sold individually or in sets, but there's never the one you need in a set, like anything else..having ever drill bit in the world but the right one!:biggrin: I'm no machine head, but my understanding of a reamer is that it is kinda like a drill bit, but the flutes go straight instead of spiral. It is used for tuning holes that you would drill with a metal lathe..so if you needed real precision, you could drill a hole a hair smaller than you want and use a reamer to get the hole to that exact size. If you used the exact size bit, the hole could be just a hair too big if the hole was really deep and the bit managed to bend a bit while drilling..thus the reamer is almost like a boring bar. I could be wrong, but that's what I think it is, and because of that, a reamer can't fit every pen size. A reamer would remove any gunk, paint, dirt, whatever from in the hole too, because it's a scraping tool. Go ahead..tell me I'm right or wrong guys.
Thanks for the link Fred..I'll go check out the sizes I need.

 

[Robert Taylor]

you are correct Jeff. a few of the guys are calling countersinks a reamer. a reamer might help chris but a countersink will not. just my $.02

 

[mick]

Mine is v shaped. Works on every pen I have ever tried, right up to the Emperor.

I bought it either at WalMart or Gander Mountain.

Ed, I'm assuming this is what you have. Jeff although it's technically a Chamfering tool we USE it to ream out the ends of tubes...lol

 

[ed4copies]

In the interest of precise language!!

Ed, I'm assuming this is what you have. Jeff although it's technically a Chamfering tool we USE it to ream out the ends of tubes...lol

Yea, it's one of them thar thingys in that picherr, up thar!

Myne hays a handel!


The DEEEEEEEEEEEE LLLLUUUCCCCKKKKKS muddl!!!

 

[BigShed]

I use one like that for my rifle catridges, cleans up the neck inside and out, very handy little gadget.

 

[thewishman]

Gee, I just use a utility knife - guess I'm not one of the "uptown" turners.

 

[workinforwood]

Now I'm clear on what everyone is actually using.:biggrin: I understand how easy it is call it something else from what it truly is. I'm not the best with terminology either.

 

[Daniel]

I also meant the tool that Ed shows a photo of. My thinking is to cut away the material that is in the way since trying to expend the tube back into shape risks cracking the casting.