Running out of ways to screw up!

[SCR0LL3R]

I am feeling rather discouraged in my progress with this hobby. My girlfriend says there's a learning curve, but I feel like I fell off the curve and was sent back to the start. Every pen is a journey into how I can find a new way to screw up. I messed up the last three pens in a row.

Many (most in fact) of my problems stem with getting the blank squared off and onto the pen without lifting up any CA glue on the edge.

My other 2 recent screw up include a baron with a beautiful thuya burl which I assembled wrong TWICE. I was lucky enough to get it apart the first time but the 2nd time it seemed there was no way and I cracked the CA really bad trying. If I get a perfect sized punch there is a very small possibility of still salvaging this one but even if I do there is a small nick in the black ring which means it will either have to go without the ring or with the nick, best case it'll still be flawed . So far I have invested about 5 hours into that one and I may just let it go.

Tonight I tried my first lucite blank. First impression... I am going to have to be very gentle and slow. I got the hang of it and did very good until I got to the point when a tearout would be critical... and I found a way to do it!! All I did was loosen up my mandrel because it had gotten excessively tight somehow. That gave the pen a new center and paved the way for some nice tearout.

I'm just venting my frustration in the hopes that I can get a little positive reinforcement. The best I can come up with is "How many more possible ways are there to screw up!"

 

[Lenny]

I'm reminded of a great piece of literature ....

http://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Terrible-Horrible-Good-Very/dp/0689711735/ref=cm_cmu_pg__header

All I can say is "Some days are like that ..... even in Australia" :biggrin:

 

[ssajn]

Your girl friend is right, there is a learning curve.

If you run out of ways to screw up let me know. I can send you dozens of new ways. Trust me, they work, I've tried them all.
:biggrin:

 

[ribanett]

Your girl friend is right, there is a learning curve.

If you run out of ways to screw up let me know. I can send you dozens of new ways. Trust me, they work, I've tried them all.
:biggrin:

When you have tried all of Dave's ways to screw up. I'll sent you some. I am sure they will be different from Dave's:tongue:

 

[Timbo]

Here's a suggestion that helped me. My guess is that you're trying too many new things for the experience you have at this point. Try sticking to one type of pen kit, and one category of blank until you are very comfortable with it. For instance...make cigar pens only, using a straight grain wood only, and applying your CA finish, until you can make 3-5 in a row without making any mistakes. So now you only have three things to learn 1) how to put together a cigar pen; 2) how to best approach drilling and turning a single type of straight grain wood; 3) how best to work a CA finish.

Changing one thing too soon could create problems...for instance...some wood are harder than others to get a good CA finish on. If you happen to switch to one of these woods before you are confident you know how to apply a CA finish, you may just think your troubles are just ongoing, not realizing your difficulty is the result of the new oily wood you are using, and all you really needed to do was wipe the blank down with alcohol before applying the finish.

Once you master the first combination, maybe switch woods or kits...but not both at the same time. Master the new combination, then switch something else.

Hope that helps. I made a lot of cigar pens before I got the hang of applying a CA finish. Don't think I don't still screw up on occasion...I do...just not frequently. Good luck.

Tim

 

[paintspill]

i second timothy's post. i was going to suggest taking a step backwards. make a bunch of slimlines till you can practically make them blindfolded (don't actually try that) then move forward. as for the baron. its my new favourite and have done a bunch of them so if i can be of any help let me know.

 

[DozerMite]

You are nowhere near accomplishing all of the ways to screw up.:wink:

 

[knight_muzzleloader]

just remember, you still have all your fingers! I took off about 1/4 in of my index finger.... I cracked a pen today, and said.... well it wasn't a finger!! It gets better. Most of my mistakes, including the finger, was going too fast...

 

[leehljp]

Well, Experience makes the BEST teacher and just think of what this will do for you: You will become the best teacher around! :biggrin:

For me, when I ran into problems twice, I took several pieces of plain old wood or two or three ugly PR blanks and did NOT attempt to make a pen, but rather to work through that particular problematic process.

For CA, I practiced in cold and humid weather, hot and humid weather, cold and dry and hot and dry and with BLO in different situations - not to complete a pen but to learn what happens in those situations with the different combinations. With that knowledge under my belt, I didn't have the mess-ups and knew when and when NOT to use BLO, or which CA to use - thick, med or thin. Now, I think I can make a decent CA finished pen in dry hot West Texas, humid New Orleans, Cold dry Colorado, cold wet Seattle, or earthquake prone Japan! :wink:

I learned to be very careful when assembling certain pens because some woods tend to cause CA lifting. I took to double checking finished blank ends with calipers before assembling. And I am not an organized person by nature. I just hated the mess ups so much that I altered the way I did things. My family still say I am un-organized (creative :biggrin at home, but with the problems, It was either that or lots of mess-ups!

Anyway, it sure is good to be able to come to this forum and "vent" on occasion! I know your pain!

 

[SCR0LL3R]

I guess I can say, it wasn't a finger! Any day that leaves me still being able to count to 10 is a good day

Thank you for all the bits of wisdom. I know that alcohol on oily wood tidbit saved me some future frustration.

I've done a dozen or so Sierras and a handfull of cigars and Carbara's. All relatively simple kits. The Baron that I screwed up was only my second Baron. The first one turned out excellent.

I have a lot of slimiline kits but I find them to be more difficult than many to get a good fit. I find that slimlines are not as fun as the others but I suppose I should do a bunch since I have the kits. At least that way mistakes are less costly.

 

[GColeman]

I also agree with Tim. When I started turning I made the mistake of buying a bunch of different kits and a bundle of blanks. I would make a mistake and blame it on the kit, the finish, the weather, or whatever I could think of at the time.

I finally had a order for 10 pens and the customer chose slims. By the sixth or seventh pen I had a pen that I would deliver. I remade the less than perfect ones, and completed the order. I turned slims for quite some time after that.

One of the best things I ever did was learn to turn between centers. That eliminated the issues with the mandrel, and the blank blowing up because of an off center rotating blank. If you already have a quality live center, you can pick up a quality dead center pretty cheap. I use JohnnyCNC bushings but you don't really have to have them.

I started with a screw-up pile. I moved to a screw-up bucket. I now have a 55 gallon drum. I expect it to be full by fall.

 

[tim self]

When you stop screwing up it's time to ask yourself what you're doing wrong. We all do it from time to time. No matter if it's the 50th pen or the 500th. Slow and steady is the key when beginning. (and sometimes later on as well)

 

[renowb]

We all get into that mode at times. I agree with staying on one pen until you master it. But, even then, there will be days where Murphy's Law takes over. Just step back, relax, and get back on the horse!

 

[Buzzzz4]

I have found a good way to fix CA lifting if you are interested. I douse the end of some paper towel with thin CA. Then quickly roll the end of the blank over the CA. Don't hold it there as it will stick to the papertowel quickly.

 

[Reece]

Glued yourself to the floor yet?

No?

Then get back in there and keep at it :biggrin:

 

[Linarestribe]

I have found a good way to fix CA lifting if you are interested. I douse the end of some paper towel with thin CA. Then quickly roll the end of the blank over the CA. Don't hold it there as it will stick to the papertowel quickly.

Great idea. I'll have to give that a try for a good fit.

Jorge

 

[PenMan1]

"Experience is what you get when you don't achieve what you set out to do". It sounds like you finally becoming an experienced pen turner. Just wait until you try pen maker.

 

[ohiococonut]

So you wanna be a pen turner huh? Welcome to the club :biggrin:
At least you're admitting your mistakes, which is good. Learning from them is even better. Until you've gone into your shop in shorts and slippers and glued your toes to your slipper...........you ain't screwed up :wink:

As some have mentioned, start with one type of pen. I did and it took me 5 hours to FINALLY get it finished and still couldn't get the ca right. But, I kept at it and will continue to do so as long as I can. And with the help of the people here you'll be posting pictures in no time. I just wish I had found this site before some of my screw ups :redface:

 

[corian king]

I agree with the others.Work with one type of pen.most people start with the slimline.
because of cost and it is one of the eaisest to work with.Just take your time and work with cheap wood.the once you master the slimeline move up to something else.
Always take your time you don't have to rush.
Good luck!!
JIM

 

[SCR0LL3R]

You guys are great. I appreciate all your comments. I guess I have just been getting an extra dose of "experience" this week

I have a 60 degree live and dead center on their way now. They were put on hold with the Canada Post strike. I did order 1 set of Johnny's bushings to try them out since I had to get my dead center from him anyway. I hope they didn't get lost in the mail.

I have made some really nice pens so far. It was just a string of screw ups on 4 consecutive tries (just remembered it was 4 not 3). The 4th one was that a chunk of wood had gotten torn out while drilling a burl blank and I didn't notice until I started turning it down.

Here is my best pen so far. I would show more but I haven't taken pictures of most of them.

 

[islandturner]

Oh man, I do feel your pain. After three years, I still regularly find interesting new ways to screw up. The recent PITH was frustrating, trying several utterly new techniques. I had to redo everything at least once.

I've learned to not let a screw up get me down. I usually package up the kit at the screw up stage, and put it aside for a while. Every now and then, when I'm in exactly the right mood, I'll have a "fix the screw-ups day", and tackle several of them. There is a good feeling of accomplishment when you're able to pull several botched pens 'out of the fire'...

Hang in there pal...

Steve

 

[Woodlvr]

I try to follow Steves suggestions but I shake alot have a problem staying on task. My mistakes continue to get worse as I continue,so I have to step back and start over. You do not want to see the plastic boxes that I have of blanks but I am sure that they are usuable when I have the patience. My ADD prtevents me from staying on a task to long so I have to kind of hurry to get it done. Then I do not take good pictures so I do not show off any of my work, maybe I am too cr4itical of my own work as we all are I am afraid. Just keep at it. I have a Emperor Fountain for me, that I am going to use a Spalted Curly Mango blank, my last one so I cannot mess it up which affects my nerves. One of these days I wii tackle this this kit for the first time. So please say a prayer for me not to screw up this blank. Thanks.

 

[sbell111]

My advice is to never take any step of the process for granted. At each step, run through the numbers to make sure that you are keeping to the basics. Also, keep kit instructions handy and reference them even if you 'know' that you don't need them.

 

[SCR0LL3R]

My advice is to never take any step of the process for granted. At each step, run through the numbers to make sure that you are keeping to the basics. Also, keep kit instructions handy and reference them even if you 'know' that you don't need them.

Yeah, I really don't know what possessed me to put that kit together wrong twice. I had the instructions in front of me but obviously I didn't look at them closely enough.

That happens to me a lot of times in my day job. Sometimes I have to proofread articles and instructions ... I can go over them several times and still have mistakes. When I start reading a paragraph that I have read before, my mind just glances over the first few words and then sorta tunes out the rest thinking I already know what the rest says. I guess I just have to try and be a little more focused

 

[snyiper]

I think you are on the right track. I also agree with what you have already read and you have lots more to do. When I started I did so with simple wood blanks and slims because they were cheap. I have since found that they are very versitile as well. Wood will make you a better finisher Acrylics will teach you how to sharpen your tools and go butterfly kiss light on cuts. Screw ups, well they are just part of the attraction, if it were easy everyone would put out perfect pens. Bet you a dollar not one turner in here has gone very long before the dreaded Murphy showed up! I just blew up a pine blank the other day how do you blow up a pine blank? dull tools going to fast thats how. Your doing good, somedays you just need to step back and say " I think Ill just have a beer and clean up the shop"!

 

[Rogersab1223]

I typically don't worry about occasional mistakes unless they result in bleeding. Speaking of - the steps and procedures that you absolutely can't get wrong are the safety ones. Take the time to find your safety glasses. Follow drill press "protocol." The rest will come!

I've turned fairly expensive blanks with the wrong bushings before. That one hurts.

 

[pfde4]

I don't make mistakes. I make really nice kindling wood for the fireplace. Pretty sure I'm all set for this winter. It's all how you look at it.

 

[jcm71]

Two things came to mind when I read your post. (1) Make sure that you don't overtighten your mandrel against your headstock. (2) Before I start turning, I always put a little Johnson's floor wax on the end of each blank. Since I started doing that I have had no problems separating the pen bushings from the blank after finishing. I always finish with CA. Good luck

Burlman

http://www.wellturnedpens.com

It just goes to show that wherever you go, there you are.

 

[SCR0LL3R]

I typically don't worry about occasional mistakes unless they result in bleeding. Speaking of - the steps and procedures that you absolutely can't get wrong are the safety ones. Take the time to find your safety glasses. Follow drill press "protocol." The rest will come!

I've turned fairly expensive blanks with the wrong bushings before. That one hurts.

I do definitely follow safe practices with the lathe even though I have been know to be a little lax in this area in the past.

That's a very good one for me to remember. As I accumulate more and more bushings, the chances of mixing them up gets worse. That's a good pointer to a mistake that I haven't done yet, thank you!

 

[TerryDowning]

If you aren't screwing up, you're not learning.

Keep trying. You'll get it.

As for the bushing confusion. I keep the little baggies that the bushings originally come in, they're already labeled, then all of the baggies go into a plastic container just for storing bushings. Personal Rule: Only one set of bushings out of the container at one time. I do have one exception and that is the slimline bushings. I often use these as spacers and/or finishing bushings due to their smaller diameter. I recently made my own finishing bushings that have tapers to reduce the chances of metal contamination during sanding, and CA sticking. Turn the blank just proud of the original bushings, then swap out for the finish bushings and use calipers to get the final diameter. I use the actual pen parts to measure against. There are differences in batch machining operations at the manufacturer and sometimes these differences are noticeable.


Terry

 

[underdog]

Hey, if you want a laugh at my expense, here's a story about refurbishing my "user" pen that I wrote up a while back.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=80267

I feel ya pain man...

But it gets better I promise. Soon you'll be giving sage advice to the newbies on the board...

What's that old adage? Something like....

Wisdom comes from experience, and experience comes from lack of wisdom...

Oh Hey! And that's not the first time that pen I wrote about above gave me trouble! I just found this again:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24274

 

[underdog]

As for making lots and lots of mistakes, I got a lot of help with CA glue finishes here:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=79575

And man, I'm sure not finished making mistakes...:tongue:

 

[RichB]

I always say "It is never a mistake unless you have to throw it away" Most all can be fixed. The challenge of how to fix them is almost as much fun as making the pen. RichB

 

[kovalcik]

It makes me feel good to read that someone else screws up also. I have a coffee can of failures, and I have only been doing this for a few months.

I started slow and simple. I bought a mess of slimline kits and made those with straight grain blanks and a friction polish finish. Then I went to a CA finish. That took a while to get right. Lots of sanding off bumpy, cloudy finishes with paper towel bits embedded and starting over. Now I have started trying out some of the more expensive kits and some more exotic blanks. It is coming along. I won't be quitting my day job anytime soon, but I am having loads of fun and come Christmas I should be all set with gifts for just about everyone. Just keep at it.

 

[sbell111]

That's a very good one for me to remember. As I accumulate more and more bushings, the chances of mixing them up gets worse.

I bought a couple of these from HF. Each set of bushings goes in it's own box and the type of bushing gets written on the lid with a sharpie.

Worn out bushings get tossed or live in a little box labelled 'spacers'. These spacer bushings are colored with a green sharpie so they don't try to sneak into the other bushing boxes.

 

[cwolfs69]

bucket of parts

trust me and all of the rest of these guys. you've just begun to screw up. how do you think we all end up with a bucket, bowl, drawer or whatever full of spare parts. nib from this one, clip from that one, mechanism from another. thats why when you go to selling them you don't just figure the cost of the one your selling. somewhere you have to account for your bucket of parts. good luck and don't give up. sometimes the best tricks or tips come from a big, big mistake.

arty::umbrella: