I've seen a lot of comments here about out of round turnings due to various causes...my question is this, have any of you folks gotten complaints from customers about a pen being out of round? or, are you satisfying your own high standards working so hard and diligently to make sure you get them perfectly round. While I admit my eyes are not what they once were, usually even when I can feel things being a tad out of round I can't see it, and usually I can't feel it unless I specifically go looking for it.
Perhaps dumb question
- Thread starter Smitty37
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CSue
Local Chapter Leader
I understand your question. And I hope I can explain IMHO how I "see it."
When I first got my lathe, not having used one before, I thought the wobbling I felt at the end of the mandrel was because of the way I had drilled it or was turning it or something like that. When I returned to the place I bought the lathe and told them, I was told to bring it back in (it's a Jet Mini Lathe.) One of the guys there walked me through a few things. He found out the mandrel I'd bought was bent. As a result, it caused the wobbling toward the end of the mandrel - and the "out of round" of the turned blanks.
There are ways to test WHY a blank is "out of round." I don't consider it "my own high standards." But it is true, if I have a blank out of round - and I know it - I won't make a pen out of it. If thats a high standard, I guess I do have some. But I found out in that first week that there are mechanical failures that cause these problems. And the necessary thing is to correct it before wasting more materials. Usually - from what I know - it doesn't just occur "occasionally." If blanks are out of round, its usually quite a consistent problem.
Over time, pressure used in sanding and such can bend a mandrel. I've had to replace a few. I'd rather do that than turn a pen blank that doesn't "match" the fittings because its out of round.
Such is my own thoughts. As to how to determine what is causing it, I believe I found helpful articles in the Library here.
One method of turning blanks that avoid this problem is learning to "turn between centers." There are a few good tutorials about this method on this site.
When I first got my lathe, not having used one before, I thought the wobbling I felt at the end of the mandrel was because of the way I had drilled it or was turning it or something like that. When I returned to the place I bought the lathe and told them, I was told to bring it back in (it's a Jet Mini Lathe.) One of the guys there walked me through a few things. He found out the mandrel I'd bought was bent. As a result, it caused the wobbling toward the end of the mandrel - and the "out of round" of the turned blanks.
There are ways to test WHY a blank is "out of round." I don't consider it "my own high standards." But it is true, if I have a blank out of round - and I know it - I won't make a pen out of it. If thats a high standard, I guess I do have some. But I found out in that first week that there are mechanical failures that cause these problems. And the necessary thing is to correct it before wasting more materials. Usually - from what I know - it doesn't just occur "occasionally." If blanks are out of round, its usually quite a consistent problem.
Over time, pressure used in sanding and such can bend a mandrel. I've had to replace a few. I'd rather do that than turn a pen blank that doesn't "match" the fittings because its out of round.
Such is my own thoughts. As to how to determine what is causing it, I believe I found helpful articles in the Library here.
One method of turning blanks that avoid this problem is learning to "turn between centers." There are a few good tutorials about this method on this site.
jwoodwright
Member
If you make pens, you will eventually have a box full of ones you will never sell or even give away... Why? Something is wrong, either fit or finish. Why not give away? This is one hobby that you can make money at or at least break even. Bad pens equal bad press... A majority of our sales are word-of-mouth. Think of the last complaint you had, you told everyone! All we can do is try our very best. Everyone is concerned with scratches in the finish, Right? Well even 12,000 micromesh leaves a scratch pattern! Yes, it's too fine for the naked eye... Micromesh was used for years by the Aircraft Industry to remove the eventual fading from the acrylic windows, before it was used on fine musical instruments and then pens...
Marc Phillips
Member
With me, an out of round pen causes a couple problems I find unacceptable for a finished pen... one is the finish; I can't really get a good finish when the pen is wobbling on the lathe... the bouncing, however slight, affects the finish. The other thing is the fit.. the blank wont be matched well enough to the pen kits... the kit is round (hopefully) and the blank isn't... so it looks poorly made to me...
leehljp
Member Liaison
It doesn't have to be out or round or off center. Having wood a bit proud of the nib or center band even when perfectly round - would you pay $100.00 - $200.00, $300.00 or more for one in which the maker did not make it to a fine tolerances?
I doubt that many pen turners would get complaints from people about a pen being out of round; instead the potential buyers would probably just inspect the pen and walk away without saying a thing. As John said, people remember poorly constructed pens.
As an example, (while I don't sell commercially and only on occasion for a special person or two) when I make pens for family and coworkers, they don't complain, but they are round and finished with a fine finish. However as to close inspection - last spring, I showed a few of my pens to some friends in my small hometown back in the States. Their first impression of a "Jr Emperor" (a $50 KIT) brought up the question "Do you make pens with better gold or fine silver?" Yes, people notice the quality of the turning, assembly, finish and even plating.
The perfect fit and finish were not in question, just the plating was not up to their standards. (One was my HS physics teacher and the other two (high school classmates of mine) are lawyers, and they notice such things. The point is, if they were looking for better quality metallic parts, they certainly would spot defects in the fitting or finish.
I doubt that many pen turners would get complaints from people about a pen being out of round; instead the potential buyers would probably just inspect the pen and walk away without saying a thing. As John said, people remember poorly constructed pens.
As an example, (while I don't sell commercially and only on occasion for a special person or two) when I make pens for family and coworkers, they don't complain, but they are round and finished with a fine finish. However as to close inspection - last spring, I showed a few of my pens to some friends in my small hometown back in the States. Their first impression of a "Jr Emperor" (a $50 KIT) brought up the question "Do you make pens with better gold or fine silver?" Yes, people notice the quality of the turning, assembly, finish and even plating.
The perfect fit and finish were not in question, just the plating was not up to their standards. (One was my HS physics teacher and the other two (high school classmates of mine) are lawyers, and they notice such things. The point is, if they were looking for better quality metallic parts, they certainly would spot defects in the fitting or finish.
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rjwolfe3
Member
To me it's not a matter of seeing the out of round as it is feeling it. If I can feel the bad fit with my fingers then I am pretty sure my customer can too. Sometimes the wood does it on its own because of moisture even sometimes years after. I have a pen I got from someone else over a year ago and when I got it, it was perfect. But now because the wood has moved. I can feel the wood at the nib end. That being said I have let pens leave my shop that were not 100% perfect but if I waited on the perfect pen then I would never be able to give or sell any. I think my standards are too high.
Thanks
I got my answer... thanks.... It seems that it is as I suspected. I know that I am far from perfect and not good enough with the tools to get perfection in my turnings, yet I get a lot of comments praising my work and none pointing out imperfection. Now I am not aspiring to sell pens for $100/$200/$300 any time in the near future and perhaps never...I might not live long enough to get that good and to be perfectly honest I wouldn't dream of paying that much for a pen so I'd have a few problems asking someone to pay me that much....anyway thanks for your input.
I got my answer... thanks.... It seems that it is as I suspected. I know that I am far from perfect and not good enough with the tools to get perfection in my turnings, yet I get a lot of comments praising my work and none pointing out imperfection. Now I am not aspiring to sell pens for $100/$200/$300 any time in the near future and perhaps never...I might not live long enough to get that good and to be perfectly honest I wouldn't dream of paying that much for a pen so I'd have a few problems asking someone to pay me that much....anyway thanks for your input.
Mac
Member
My wife says I am to critical of my own work, but I say ,anything worth doing ,is worth doing right. therfor if it is out of round then its not right.
leehljp
Member Liaison
LeRoy,
Pen turning, crafting, making covers a far wider range than many people new to this hobby/profession - would believe. For me, it took me 1 1/2 years to make consistent and predictable finishes on a pen. And some people do it right the first time!
Jump in and have fun! :biggrin: That is the main thing!
There is room for all and ALL types of turners here.
There are many people that make a good income selling the $35 - 75 pens. But many of these do on occasion sell a $100 - $200 pen. And those are often custom orders because of a previous sale and the buyer recognizes the quality of craftsmanship and artistry in the lower ends ones. If the quality is there in the lower ones, the higher end sales will usually come.
Look at the pens below; These don't even scratch the surface for the number of high quality fine writing instruments and works of art here. After looking at those, do a search of pens on this forum. Some fine work here.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4268&d=1228940584
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35679
http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/3090/1_Casing6.jpg
http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/5346/1_Hbone.JPG
http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/3090/1_25.jpg
Pen turning, crafting, making covers a far wider range than many people new to this hobby/profession - would believe. For me, it took me 1 1/2 years to make consistent and predictable finishes on a pen. And some people do it right the first time!
Jump in and have fun! :biggrin: That is the main thing!There is room for all and ALL types of turners here.
There are many people that make a good income selling the $35 - 75 pens. But many of these do on occasion sell a $100 - $200 pen. And those are often custom orders because of a previous sale and the buyer recognizes the quality of craftsmanship and artistry in the lower ends ones. If the quality is there in the lower ones, the higher end sales will usually come.
Look at the pens below; These don't even scratch the surface for the number of high quality fine writing instruments and works of art here. After looking at those, do a search of pens on this forum. Some fine work here.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4268&d=1228940584
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35679
http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/3090/1_Casing6.jpg
http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/5346/1_Hbone.JPG
http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/3090/1_25.jpg
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