I think I confused myself even further...

[Josh Gertz]

Over the last few days I have been looking over all of the information here in the forums and I think I confused myself even further.

I am trying to plan out all of the stuff I am going to need to buy to get started...right now I have nothing but an empty garage. (Well there is some boxes of holiday decorations but for the most part its empty)

Right now I am thinking I will just grab the starter kit with the VS Lathe from PSI. Then grab a scroll saw and drill press from HF on the cheap until I can afford to upgrade.

Im just curious now if this is a good way to go?

I can already see some problems. I will likely want to get the buffing set up for the lathe as well, I can grab that from PSI. The blank holder press for the drill press...PSI too.

Ohhh and a workbench...there is a 40" workbench Oak from HF for $120.

...the more I look the more I want and I think what I need and what I want is getting mixed up the more I look at other posts.

For instance, I could buy pre-drilled blanks and not worry about the drill press for now, it saves me about $100 from HF but I would likely spend that much more buying blanks that are pre-drilled.

Then I found a few posts on using your drill press as a lathe...or vice versa...again I am just confusing myself the more I research...

-Josh

 

[keithkarl2007]

i don't think you'd need a scrollsaw straight away unless your going to jump straight into segmenting. We always seem to use our wallets readily. Have a browse around for jigs you can make yourself to aid in drilling blanks and assembling your finished pens. I've seen various methods which work well and will make do until you wish to change. With economic situations as they are start out with the basics and as you sell some of your wares you can put it towards something you really need

 

[Josh Gertz]

i don't think you'd need a scrollsaw straight away unless your going to jump straight into segmenting. We always seem to use our wallets readily. Have a browse around for jigs you can make yourself to aid in drilling blanks and assembling your finished pens. I've seen various methods which work well and will make do until you wish to change. With economic situations as they are start out with the basics and as you sell some of your wares you can put it towards something you really need

Well I put it on there since I would likely try segmenting at some point and I dont have another way to cut the blanks into a top and bottom half right now.

Maybe I just like tools...its funny that I dont really own any yet though.

-Josh

 

[alphageek]

My 2 cents... Start small build up... If you know you want pens as a primary thing..
- Skill the scroll saw for now... MANY better ways to spend your money up front. You can cut pen blanks with a miter saw (hand or power) very easily.
- IMO skip the drill press & holder... lookup drilling on the lathe here.. MUCH MORE ACCURATE than a cheap drill press and other advantages.
- ALSO IMO skip the buffing setup to start - get turning, try CA/BLO for wood or micromesh for acrylic.

As for the lathe kit... not a bad start (I'm a jet guy.. but)... Then you can come here for much of the other things you'll need

 

[keithkarl2007]

well i'd get a bandsaw before i got a scrollsaw, that way if you got larger blanks you could cut them into pen blanks

 

[Josh Gertz]

My 2 cents... Start small build up... If you know you want pens as a primary thing..
- Skill the scroll saw for now... MANY better ways to spend your money up front. You can cut pen blanks with a miter saw (hand or power) very easily.
- IMO skip the drill press & holder... lookup drilling on the lathe here.. MUCH MORE ACCURATE than a cheap drill press and other advantages.
- ALSO IMO skip the buffing setup to start - get turning, try CA/BLO for wood or micromesh for acrylic.

As for the lathe kit... not a bad start (I'm a jet guy.. but)... Then you can come here for much of the other things you'll need

Now that I think about it I think I have an old Exacto Saw with the aluminum miter kit. Ill have to go digging but either way I can probably get this for about $20 rather than the $100 for the HF scroll saw.

Ill search for the lathe drilling.

Thanks for the finishing advice. Ill look into this as well, I haven't really gotten into finishing yet but its next on my list of topics to research.

well i'd get a bandsaw before i got a scrollsaw, that way if you got larger blanks you could cut them into pen blanks

Ill take a look into this as well.

Thanks both of you for the advice

 

[mostangrypirate]

band saw B-4 scroll saw, but even a miter would do. Many on here have had quality isues with PSI and I would be wary of getting a lathe from them. not many bad things said about Jet, and if you look real hard you can find a good deal on one. Got mine for 300$$. would tell ya where if I could remember. I "made do" with really bad equipment for a very long time. It can be done, but there will be times when you are feeling homosidel. If there is one thing to really focus your financial attentions in the begining...it is the lathe. Spend everything on the lathe first, ask yourself if you know anyone with a few of the tools you need, and wether you could cruz over and use them for an hour here and there. Buy the rest as you go.

 

[titan2]

Remember, you'll need to sharpen your turning tools soon enough. Get yourself a slow speed grinder with a Wolverine jig and you should be all set. I went and jumped in with both feet and got the JET Slow Speed Wet Sharpener with most of the attachments........you don't have to go that far!!! But, you will need to keep your tools sharp!!!

Good luck & welcome to the madness!!!!


Barney

P.S.

Here's some links:

8" Slow-Speed Grinder
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=144290&FamilyID=4605

Wolverine Grinding Jig
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=125676&FamilyID=1998

 

[mickr]

a good miterbox will do all the cutting you need..heck a good japanese saw would do it too...drill on the lathe of your choice..don't HAVE to have buffing stuff..just get the basics(you get what you pay for here) and LEARN TO USE THEM..as you learn you will know what you need

 

[kevinbrown22]

I'm a NOOB and shouldn't have a opinion about most of the questions you asked, but I wouldn't suggest the HF drill press. DAMHIK but drill on the lathe until you can afford a decent drill press.

 

[brianp]

If you buy a lathe with a starting kit make sure that the tools it comes with are made with high speed steel. You dont want to overlook quality when it comes to the tools.

 

[GouletPens]

Don't bank all of your pens on pre-drilled blanks. They're limited in style and coloring, and you'll very soon be sick of being limited to them. Drilling on the lathe is a good option, though you can spend as much on the tools to be able to do that as you would on a drill press, and a drill press is much faster (though can be less accurate).

My father always said, save up and buy the best you can afford. Don't buy cheap stuff intending to replace it, because you'll either have to compensate for its inadequacies or worse not be able to achieve the level of performance you desire, and quit. You will need a good mini lathe, something to drill holes, something to cut wood (even a handsaw will work, to start!), a barrel trimmer, so good HHS turning tools (1/4 spindle gouge and a skew really would be all to start!) and something to press the finished pens together, you can even to that on the lathe. You'd be amazed how little it takes to make a pen, though if you want to make them fast and fancy, that's when you start to go broke.

 

[its_virgil]

Opinions from anyone are welcome. We all have them. I don't disagree with very many comments but once again I will disagree with negative comments on Harbor Freight tools. True, not all of what HF sells is top quality and would not hold up to 24-7 use, but I have two HF tools that I love and am totally happy with my purchase of them. One is, you guessed it, a HF drill press and the other, right again, is the HF band saw. I did a LOT of looking at other popular brands of both and the one thing I noticed is how much they all look alike, except and good quality blades. No special tuning was needed for the drill press. Both of these tools perform flawlessly and I had more $$$ to spend on other tooling. If one had to go it would be the drill press because I can drill on the lathe. In fact, with precise drilling is needed for special blanks, the lathe is the tool of choice for me and several others.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

I'm a NOOB and shouldn't have a opinion about most of the questions you asked, but I wouldn't suggest the HF drill press. DAMHIK but drill on the lathe until you can afford a decent drill press.

 

[bitshird]

Re: drilling on a lathe, The two items no one has mentioned are 1 a chuck for your lathe, (barracuda is a good one to start with) I got mine on eBay same chuck as PSI but a lot cheaper, and 2 a Drill chuck on a #2 morse taper for the tail stock on your PSI Lathe. This gentleman is an IAP member and a great fellow to deal with, as well as top quality reasonable tools http://www.penturnersproducts.com. I agree though you'd be better with out the scroll saw to begin with, a bandsaw is far more useful.

 

[Pocono Bill]

In my second go-round with woodturning (the first was on a Shopsmith and we won't count that) I invested in a Jet Mini. If the PSI unit you are considering is the pen turning lathe, I would pause and think about it. You would be amazed at the number of other projects that can be made on a mini-lathe other than pens. I now turn on a Oneway 1224, but that Jet is still available in my shop. Invest in a few GOOD tools for now, add more later. You can drill on a lathe although a good chuck (I like the Talon) will set you back as much as a cheap drill press. My first pens were assembled with a bench vice.

If you work with acrylic go with the small sanding pads and you won't need buffing equipment. Final advice, for starters buy inexpensive kits and blanks until you get the feel of turning. You can impress your friends with your new hobby (career, profession) and then move up to fancier, read $$$, pen components and exotic woods when you feel you have your skills under control. One last thing- if there is a woodturners club near you, join: the friendships are great, there are people there with the skills you want to learn, and if it is like our club there is a library of books and videos that circulate to give you more information.

 

[GouletPens]

In my second go-round with woodturning (the first was on a Shopsmith and we won't count that) I invested in a Jet Mini. If the PSI unit you are considering is the pen turning lathe, I would pause and think about it. You would be amazed at the number of other projects that can be made on a mini-lathe other than pens. I now turn on a Oneway 1224, but that Jet is still available in my shop. quote]
Dang...I can only dream of the 1224!! I use the Delta midi and it's been working fine some 500-600 pens later (I lost count). I wouldn't recommend the cheapest lathe, but having one with variable speed is really nice. If you just want to do pens you can pretty much use any of the lathes, but variable speed is really, really nice. I changed out my midi for the PSI VS motor, haven't looked back. Though I'd trade it all in a second for the 1224!!!!!!:RockOn:

Oh yeah, WHATEVER YOU DO don't get one of those stupid drill press lathe adapters or 'hobby lathes' made for a handheld drill from Grizzly. They are total crap and I think the drill press one is outright dangerous.

 

[kenlicciardello]

mostangrypirate is also mostwisepirate. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I had bad experience with 3 powertools at HF and now have jet. Took 3 years but worth it. Another tool to add early on is some kind of sharpener. You can develop some very bad habits trying to adapt to dull tools.

Ken

 

[fiferb]

My only advice is to buy the best quality tools that you can afford no matter where you get them. It's better to buy a better quality for a little more now than to spend money on a tool you know you're going to upgrade later. In the long run it will cost you less and probably reflect in the work you produce.

 

[GouletPens]

btw mostangrypirate......your avatar wakes me up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night. It's just unnatural.

 

[thewishman]

I still use my Stanley yellow plastic miter box - no it's not accurate but close enough for $14.95. I used oil stones to sharpen for more than a year and a half - $8.00. Get a nice lathe and chuck, buy nice equipment when you can afford it. HF turning tools are High Speed Steel and work very well. My chest freezer and an old desk are my workbenches.

You'll find plenty of things to make the job easier as you get going, there are numerous tools to add as you need them. Start and learn, make sure this is something you like, then make a larger investment. Don't worry - you'll "need" lots of stuff as you get some experience.

 

[Josh Gertz]

Lathe: http://www.amazon.com/1014VSI-10-In...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1240622841&sr=8-1 $460

Turning Tools: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47066 $45 ($25 Savings...HSS set to start with)

Sharpening: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=36799 $10 ($230 Savings!...will use these until I can upgrade to a wheel)

Drill Press: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44505 $90

Table: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93991 $120

Pen Blank Drilling: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/DRILLCENT3.html?mybuyscid=4026108121 $50

Mandrel: ?

Chuck: ?

Sawing: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37022 $6 (Found one cheaper...$14 savings)

Barrel Trimming: http://yourdonspens.com/TiNTwistBit.html#Pen_Mills $15 + shipping (Thanks Alpha...$15 savings)

Sanding: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKFINKIT.html?mybuyscid=4026108121 $14

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKSPSET5.html?mybuyscid=4026108121 $23

Tube Insertion: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/PKTINT.html?mybuyscid=4026108121 $10

Assembly Press: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=38183 $8 (ThanksAlpha...$36 savings)

Blanks: Prices vary but I will try to get a bulk deal on eBay to start with

Pen Kits: Vary, but will probably start with Slimlines

CA/BLO: Pick it up at a hobby store or Walmart

So Im looking at spending a little over $1000 with no drill, mandrel or chuck yet, Its a bit more than I thought to be honest.

Ill be meeting up with someone to try it out before I buy anything but it seems like something I will end up getting into.

 

[Sabaharr]

I know there are a few casinos around AZ so why not hit the pawn shops for power tools. Lots of good tools end up the, practically new. You can get great deals sometimes. I have gotten some things for 10 cents on the dollar. I agree that you should get good tools to start with instead of make-do. Band saw and drill press are good pawn shop items though. I also got a 14" Grisley band saw at a grage sale, along with its matching table saw. If you have the time shop for the bargains.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

There is a ton of good advise in this thread. Generally I have been a quality over quantity person myself. But on theother hand you are just getting started so this may get boring to you in a couple of months so you could spend a good deal and not use it in short order. Also if you decide this isn't for you you can always sell the equipment you aquire. Just remember that it is usually easier to sell good quality equipment and you will have less depriciation on it. So keep this in mind when you start to make your purchases.

Personally I would start with a VS Jet. It has standard sizes and there is a ton of add ons you can aquire for it. A drill press is a good thing to have even if you do not stay in this hobby, but you mentioned segmenting and it is very important to get a good center drill which is a snap on the lathe. If you do this then an E-32 collet chuck seems to be a good way to go. Ooooo more confussion! :biggrin:

My best advise is before you make any purchase ask the folks on here what they think. Is it a good tool/eq? Is it a good deal? Does anybody know of any good buys right now or even a used peice of eq at a great buy? Thanks to folks on here we got a Craftsman 16" drill press with laser sight for $179 brand new. These are good folks on here and they won't steer you wrong.

PS Stay clear of that Cav guy. He is a little too pink for my taste!

Mike

 

[Josh Gertz]

Another really quick question...

Why Variable Speeds? What is the application of having multiple speeds?

I ask because its an easy $100 savings.

-Josh

 

[IPD_Mrs]

When you are turning a blank most folks like to go at a fast speed, then when it comes to sanding you need to slow it down so that the blank does not heat up. And if you are going to apply CA then real slow so that it doesn't sling it everywhere. Buffing works best for me on a high speed.

That silly little dial will save you a tone of time over adjusting belts onto different pullys. I think I got my $100 worth in the first month.

 

[Josh Gertz]

I just watched a few of the CA Finishing videos and read some of the articles. It seems like variable speed is the way to go.

Does anyone else have any applications for the variable speeds?

 

[alphageek]

OK.. Just to throw a couple more cents in here...
Pen mills -> http://yourdonspens.com/TiNTwistBit.html Daniel sells them for $15 plus shipping (great guy)..

The $50 pen blank drilling... there is ways to do it with something like http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4852 for starters.... Don't blow the $50 until you're sure you're gonna use a drill press.

I use this for an assembly press: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=38183

And to differ on 2 other points... 1) The only time my lathe isn't running full speed is drilling... I turn, sand and finish at high speed... So to each their own.

2) I agree sharp tools are important, but there is easier ways to start. That sharpening system may be a tough thing for a beginner. Harbor freight has a pretty good set of turning tools that you can afford to learn to sharpen with and learn which ones you'd use. I like really good tools, but I have a $$ gouge that I bought based on someone elses experience, but I'm now almost completely a skew guy.

That being said.. you are going to look at around 5-700 to start still.

 

[alphageek]

I just watched a few of the CA Finishing videos and read some of the articles. It seems like variable speed is the way to go.

Does anyone else have any applications for the variable speeds?

There are almost as many CA methods as turners. If there is a local IAP person or local chapter near you - a couple of hours with another turner will be worth their weight in gold. My CA process is different that some others, but thats another thread.

 

[Josh Gertz]

Thanks for the links Alpha...from Green Bay...Packers fan?

I cant believe The Pack is coming here to AZ not once but twice this year...I have to save as much as I can on tools so I can get tickets to both games and break the sea of red with my green and gold

I think I may have to think a little outside of the box and try to find more affordable alternatives to some of these tools.

Anyone have any cheaper sharpening options and links? I think I can probably shave at least $100 off if there are some waterstone options with maybe an angled roller of some sort.

 

[leehljp]

I also disagree with ALL the HF being trash. I have Fein, Bosch, Makita, DeWalt, PC, Delta and other brand tools, in Japan and in the US. I also have HF DPs and both do great jobs. I have a few other HF tools. I am not a tool snob but I demand accuracy and reliability in the tools I use. I have been able to get those qualities with both of my HF DPs.

AS to drilling on the lathe, the lathe chuck and drill chuck will run you close to the cost of a DP. Plus, if you do not know that much about lathe use, i.e. this is your first lathe, trying to do too much at once can overpower you. I would go with a DP over pre-drilled blanks. I bought about 20 pre-drilled blanks when I started 4+ years ago and still have 14 - 15 blanks somewhere unused.

 

[alphageek]

Thanks for the links Alpha...from Green Bay...Packers fan?

I cant believe The Pack is coming here to AZ not once but twice this year...I have to save as much as I can on tools so I can get tickets to both games and break the sea of red with my green and gold

I think I may have to think a little outside of the box and try to find more affordable alternatives to some of these tools.

Anyone have any cheaper sharpening options and links? I think I can probably shave at least $100 off if there are some waterstone options with maybe an angled roller of some sort.

Packers .. Who are they? JK.. Of course I am.. Just wish we weren't back in the mediocre days that i grew up with.

As for sharpening options.. Not the most popular, but I have a worksharp - which I LOVE. I got the 3000, but you can get the 2000 for $99.... you can search a bit on here or do some research and you'll see I'm not the only one who likes their WS.

 

[Josh Gertz]

Packers .. Who are they? JK.. Of course I am.. Just wish we weren't back in the mediocre days that i grew up with.

As for sharpening options.. Not the most popular, but I have a worksharp - which I LOVE. I got the 3000, but you can get the 2000 for $99.... you can search a bit on here or do some research and you'll see I'm not the only one who likes their WS.

Hey now, losing 7 games by 3 or fewer points because special teams cant tackle a return guy to give the defense good position isnt a bad year.

I think Ill have to look a little deeper into sharpening...

 

[Josh Gertz]

Any ideas if these would work for sharpening?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=36799

For $10 and some elbow grease this saves me about $200.

 

[jaeger]

Just my opinion

Don't look at this as costing this much to get into pen turning. You are setting up a shop as well.
A lot of the tools you are looking at will have other uses in your shop.
Also the tools that you acquire will not lose value overnight. If you do decide to upgrade or discontinue a tool, it holds value if you take care of it.

With respect to other opinions, here is where I can save you some money. This is a link to the tool I use to sharpen my chisels.
http://www.outdoorpros.com/Prod/Lan...arpening-Pad-Coarse/15135/Cat/83?SSAID=204502
6 bucks and my chisels are razor sharp. The first couple times you can use a marker to mark the bevel so you can check your accuracy as you sharpen. You chisels will not get hot or grind away and it takes me 25 seconds to sharpen everything I am going to use on a pen.
As a bonus, I also sharpen my pen mill with the same tool. Try that with a grinder!!!
The trick here is to sharpen up with the blade. Not across the bevel (as much).

 

[TBone]

Use the money for the drill press to buy a chuck and a drill chuck and drill on your lathe. SAves drill press and vise. With the lathe and the ability to drill, you just need to be able to cut the blanks and square the ends. You can insert tubes with a pin punch or the top of a CA bottle. If you really want to buff, you can build a buffer from some wood and an $8 paint roller from the hardware store. You should be able to start turning for a lot less than $1000. Now if you WANT to spend money, then we can share lots of ways to empty your wallet. :biggrin:

 

[nava1uni]

Make sure that you like turning, before you invest all of your money. If there is a Rockler or Woodcraft near you go and check out the lathes. They both have them set up and will let you try them out or help you decide, which you might want to have. There is a Woodcraft in Chandler and one in Tucson. Woodcraft also has a starter package without the lathe. But it does have a trimmer set, a vise, pen kits, blanks and a tool bag to keep it. You should also check out Craig's list, garage sales, flea markets for your tools. I have a Rikon midi lathe and it is easier to change speeds then the Jet, runs smooth and true. I sharpen my tools on my disc sander and then use a Diamond sharpener to finish them. I also use a Jool tool for sharpening. Make sure that you include a Dust collector in your tool purchases since you only get ONE set of lungs and wood dust can be dangerous and toxic to them and the health of your family. Buy your blanks from IAP members, less expensive, great quality and an amazing variety. Have fun and be safe with these very dangerous fast moving tools.

 

[johnnycnc]

What Cindy said!:biggrin:

 

[Glass Scratcher]

I don't throw my opinions in often...

The HF HHS lathe chisels are a good set of tools.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47066

I think they are at least comparable to the PSI Benjamins Best tools. I have 2 of this HF set and 1 of the more expensive and not listed HF HSS tool sets. The roughing gouges are only 1/4 round and I have reprofiled half of them them to have a swept back (fingernailish) profile. They work more like a Spindlemaster. I prefer them to the skew. I have a few skews, 2-1/2", 3-3/4", 3-1" and Sorby Oval skew and I don't use any of them much.

The best tool is the one you are comfortable with, know how to use, and you will find yourself reaching for most often.

The most important part of your gouge/chisel set is your sharpening system. The Wolverine system on a slow speed grinder is a good system, there is a similar system by Nova, and there are a few others. You can buy lesser tools to start, but don't skimp on the sharpening, most peoples problems can be traced back to dull tools.

.

 

[Gordon]

ditto - what Cindy said.

Good luck - have some fun.

 

[Josh Gertz]

Ive actually talked to someone in town that I will be visiting to try it out before I decide for sure if I am going to buy everything. Even after that I wont be buying anything until July when I have a bit of cash coming my way.

Does anyone have any tips on the Mandrel and Chuck? Aside form the drill press its the one area I dont have filled out yet.