Closed-End Question

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Scott

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Hi Everybody!

It seems to me that I have seen an article in the past couple of months that specifically addresses the measurement and drilling of a blank for a closed-end ROLLERBALL. A fountain pen is not so critical as long as there is enough room, but the rollerball has to be just right.

If anybody has seen that article and can point me to it, I'd appreciate it. I thought it might be Rich's excellent article in Woodturning Design, but I checked it and it doesn't really address the rolllerball as much as the fountain pen.

Or please chime in with any advice you might have on making the Baron closed end rollerball. Thanks!

Scott.
 
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its_virgil

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Contact John Solberg.... I sent you an email.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
Originally posted by Scott
<br />Hi Everybody!

It seems to me that I have seen an article in the past couple of months that specifically addresses the measurement and drilling of a blank for a closed-end ROLLERBALL. A fountain pen is not so critical as long as there is enough room, but the rollerball has to be just right.

If anybody has seen that article and can point me to it, I'd appreciate it. I thought it might be Rich's excellent article in Woodturning Design, but I checked it and it doesn't really address the rolllerball as much as the fountain pen.

Or please chime in with any advice you might have on making the Baron closed end rollerball. Thanks!

Scott.
 

YoYoSpin

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That's right...Bill B has come out with a new closed end mandrel that I recently had the honor to test out, and it's a real winner. So, I felt compelled to write a little tutorial on how to use it to make a closed end Baron rollerball. Bill has the tutorial on his site. You can also access it though my site: http://www.yoyospin.com/baron/.

BTW, I've received zero compensation for making this tutorial...it's just a great mandrel, and I thought everyone should know about it.
26ss.jpg
 

DCBluesman

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FINALLY! I get to direct a suggestion to Scott. For those of you who don't know, Scott answered at least 100 of my questions when I first joined the IAP. So here goes. The overall depth of the hole needs to be 2-7/8". I drill using the normal bit for the depth of the tube, then drive to a total of 2-7/8" using a 1/4" bit. So far they've all worked!
 

Scott

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Lou - Thanks! Those measurements are really what I need! Don just sent me a picture that showed using a 1/4" drill to acheive the extra depth.

Ed - I just checked out your article. As usual - Excellent! I just received my super closed end mandrel from Bill a few days ago, and am hoping to try it out today! First of all, would you be willing to let Jeff convert that to a PDF file and post it here on IAP? I have an ulterior motive in asking - a PDF file prints out nicer, and I would like to ask if it's OK to hand out printed versions of that for my class later this month? Second, I wanted to ask if drilling 25/64's all the way to 2 7/8" deep ever lets the spring move around enough that the rollerball refill can slip to one side, effectively missing it?

Thanks Everybody!

Scott.
 

Fangar

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Ed,

On that mandrel that is offerend by BB... Looks pretty cool! Is the extra drilling depth (25/64") a requirement to use that chuck setup, or can you do the 1/4" bit for the refill. I like the 1/4" as it allows for a nice fit of the rollerball spring and refill without any slop that I would think the 25/64" might allow for.

Thanks in advance,

Fangar
 

vick

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Originally posted by Scott
<br />Lou - Thanks! Those measurements are really what I need! Don just sent me a picture that showed using a 1/4" drill to acheive the extra depth.
Just a note do a little test I find 1/4 to be to small and use a 7mm.
 

YoYoSpin

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Scott, no problem at all having this tutorial converted to pdf …and, all of you are free to use this info in any non-profit way you see fit.

I just had a more careful look at the Arizona Silhouette closed end mandrel, and the main barrel is in fact about 3/8" longer than the stock out-of-the-package lower barrel brass tube. Here is a photo:
27.jpg

The way I've compensated for that is to drill the 25/64" hole the entire 2 7/8" depth, then glue in the spring...and that works fine. I've done about 80 to 100 closed end rollerball Barons this way and not had any problems with the ink cartridge slipping off the spring. However, you could drill the 25/64" hole 2 1/2" deep and finish up with a 7mm (or 1/4"?) hole going another 3/8"...2 7/8" deep total. That would work too, giving the AS mandrel plenty of room (depth) to seat properly, and capturing the spring without glue in a smaller hole.
 

Fangar

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Ed,

Thanks for the closeup and explanation. Looks like a nice setup. I have had something in the works if I can ever get my mind right... [:D] Should be usefull for some of us...

Fangar
 

scubaman

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Originally posted by YoYoSpin
<br />I just had a more careful look at the Arizona Silhouette closed end mandrel, and the main barrel is in fact about 3/8" longer than the stock out-of-the-package lower barrel brass tube.
There is a reason for the extra length. An earlier prototype had the exact length which put the sizing ring right up against the wood. Especially for folks doing a CA finish this can make for an interesting time freeing up the sizing ring after the 1st use... the way it is now the sizing ring can be slid up for sizing, but be pulled back for finishing.
 

RussFairfield

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Scott,
There a couple misconceptions in your original message. You will find that in some pens the fountain pen reservoir might be the critical dimension for the depth of the blind hole in a closed end pen if you are using the Schmidt reservoir, and that it might be necessary to have a short plug or a longer spring behind the rollerball cartridge if it is installed in the same pen.

It is always a good idea to lay out the internal parts of the pen, as they would be assembled, before starting on any pen that is a modification of the kit. This will give me the dimensions that are specific to the kit and parts I am using, and I will always have a reference available when I forget or can't find the dimensions that I may not have remembered to write down.

Here is a photo of the assembled internal parts for one of my early clased-end pens in the various forms that I would use.

20064101679_Grabbed%20Frame%205.jpg
<br />

The top pen is the first closed-end pen that I made about 5 years ago. Below that is the stock Ameroclassic made from the kit. The one in the middle is a fountain pen with a spare cartridge. The bottom two are a rollerball and the Schmidt fountain pen reservoir.

I am now doing the same thing with the Baron, and with similar results.

Note that the Schmidt reservoir is the critical dimension and not the rollerball cartridge. Drilling the closed-end hole 1/16" longer to accomodate for variations in the fountain pen reservoir and trimming will make it too deep to provide any spring compression to hold the the tip of the rollerball cartridge against the tip of the pen. That leaves the choices as being to make the pen either rollerball or fountain specific, use 2 springs, or drop a wad of paper in the bottom of the hole to make up the difference. My choice has been to make either a fountain pen with the better Schmidt reservoir or a rollerball pen. I have chosen not to make a pen that can be convertible to either because doing so would require using the shorter stock reservoir, and I don't think that is a good choice for a $100 pen.

Drilling for the rollerball is more critical because you want 3/32" spring compression to hold the tip securely for writing, and any variation of more than 1/64" either way will have you drilling the hole deeper after the pen has been assembled or using that little wad of paper that I mentioned earlier. A couple drops of CA glue down the barrel will make the wad of paper a permanent part of the pen.

A couple things that most people making a closed-end pen miss is that the tube doesn't have to be the same length as the stock kit, and that the diameter past the end of the tube no longer has to be the same as required for the tube. The brass tube only has to be long enough to accept the fitting at the end of the pen. I have been cutting the tube length about 2X its diameter and have not had one come loose when held in with CA glue. The hole past the end of the tube only has to provide clearance for the internals, and there is nothing wrong with having a couple steps in the hole.

The weight of the extra wood partially compensates for the missing metal parts at the other end of the pen, and improves the balance of the pen in the hand of the user. This is really noticeable when the pen is made from a heavier or stabilized wood. The extra wood also allows more freedom to do different things with the end of the pen.

And, don't forget that the length from under the clip to the end of the pen still has to fit in a shirt pocket.
 

vick

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As always great information Russ.

I have been guilty of sloppy drilling more than I like to admit and have found that the plastic cap that goes on the rollerball refill nib can be cut down and made into an excellent shim if you drill to far and I used those for a while. I recently bought a variety pack of small springs at home depot for about $2.40 and well most are not even close in size there are about a dozen or so that you can use if you need a longer spring or just lost it. Ace hardware stores carry a better variety of small springs for about $.40 a piece and I have stocked up on some of those.

Unrelated but the Ace also carry thin brass and aluminum sheets if you want to do some metal inlays. If you have not been to one in a while you may want to take another look they have alot more selection than the big box stores on some stuff.
 

Scott

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Thanks again everybody!

Russ - Every one of these I have made has been a fountain pen. And I do use the Schmidt pumps, personally and in the pens I sell. And all I do is make sure there is plenty of room for the pump to fit, without worrying if I drill a bit deep. I only made that mistake once, and I keep that pen around to remind me! [:I]

For this class I'm going to give the store only had rollerball kits, and I knew the length was critical because of the back pressure from the compressed spring. So I was faced with learning some new critical measurements. I never really intended these pens to be "convertible" from rollerball to fountain pens. I'm going to drill and glue all the blanks so we can move to turning rather than spend time on prep work. And I wanted it to be right, for obvious reasons! I have gotten such good information that I think I'll do a handout just on drilling concearns for closed-end pens. I would really like to use some quotes from what you posted above to drive home some of the points, if you don't mind?

I also appreciate the bit about cutting the brass tube shorter, and the effect on the balance of the pen.

Scott.
 
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