beginners insecurity

[Goofy]

Got my first batch of learners level Slim Lines done. Got the usual " Wow, those are really neat! and now I'm going to try some Cigar style to try and to satisfy all the "gift requests" I'm getting from the "little lady".
Fell victim to the PSI hype and got the multi grade sanding tape box and some Shella wax to start with. Sanded to meet the spec, hit the SL's with a couple of grades of Scotch bright, then brown paper bag paper. Did a final burnish with the turnings. Three coats of shellawax and they looked pretty good.
So now I've added MM to the tool kit and bought some EEE. The more I read the more confused I get. I would like to take advantage of the Lessons Learned from others and come up with a "best practices " that will suit the next batch. The whole CA/BLO thing has me a bit twitchy. CA is pretty nasty stuff to be dropping on a piece of spinning log and have it sling off in my face. The videos make it look so easy, yet I read about how tough it is to get consistent results. So here is my questions.
Is CA/BLO that much better a finish if you don't have to worry about your pens being sold?
Does the CA sling off and will I need a special set of cloths?:doctor:
Does buffing a Shellawax finish with a cloth buffuin wheel and Tripoli and white diamond add brillance?
If I continue to use the Shellwax, did I waste my money on the EEE?
Should I use the EEE after the final burnish or after the final coat of finish. Sorry, but I just don't want to buy a bunch of tools, accessories and chemicals if they all are just a different path to get to the same level of result. :at-wits-end:
So many questions, so little time.

Thanks ahead of time for the help
RdG

 

[leehljp]

Welcome Roger!

First, while some people drop the CA onto the spinning blank, most people place drops on multi- folded pieces of paper towel and wipe in/on that way. As for putting it directly onto the turning blank - I do that but it is on the slowest speed.

Below is a link to a PDF file that does not answer specific questions but gives general overviews of many aspects of pen turning. There are different ways of doing the same thing and this touches on many of the different ways.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=42446

I think even in what you have read, you may have some misunderstandings: Is CA/BLO that much better a finish if you don't have to worry about your pens being sold? - MANY pen makers here find that customers WANT the CA or CA/BLO finish. It is not a matter of worrying about the pens being sold. That is what many want. CA is not for "shine" only but for its toughness also - oh, and for quick finishes too.

With CA, you get 1. Tough, 2. Shine, 3. Quick. 4. Quirks at cool temps and humidity change situations, 5. Higher learning curve for many.

I will let others give you more detailed help with your problem. It is morning here and time to go to work.

 

[hunter-27]

Don't let it scare you, it is not as tough as some make it.(I say that as I have not glued myself to anything lately)

P.S. Ditch the Shella wax!!!!!!!

 

[jackrichington]

I would ditch the shellawax for pens too..put it on something else you make..try lacquer as a newbie finish..easy and lasts

 

[jackrichington]

Oops forgot this: EEE cream is a polishing cream...if you are making from wood, then as last step use the EEE..it will make a fine gloss..then go with the lacquer

 

[dasimm]

Hi Goofy,

You are not Alone!!!

I went the same route - been there, done it, got a couple of T-Shirts out of the deal: shella wax, EEE, tung oil, etc... I had a real issue getting a long lasting and consistent finish on my pens and I was very frustrated with the end results. Not to mention the 20-30 bucks a pop for the Shella wax & Triple-E.

Then I went to an IAP meeting and saw a demo on the CA finish and it changed my perception completely. Went back to my shop that day and adopted it to suite my needs. Now I can get repeatable long lasting durable finishes on my pens that I'm proud to show off.

One of the things not mentioned too often is to hit the blank with a sanding sealer before applying the CA. Mylands is what I use.

For oily woods on the otherhand (i.e. tulipwood, rosewoods & BOW are some of the more common) hit it with a touch of acetone applied to a paper towel to remove the oil from the surface of the blank before applying your CA. Otherwise you will get a slight cloud under the CA or it will not bond well and you have other problems.

After the CA is applied I will use the 3 wheel Buff system to put a nice shine on the pen (before it comes off the mandrel). If you wait until the pen is done to buff it - you will be replacing parts now absent of the plating.

Things that might help in the application process:

1. Buy some inexpensive disposable gloves you can use when applying the CA. I use the medium CA, others prefer the thin CA. Experiment to find what works for you.
2. Buy lots of paper towels and have them handy to apply the CA. Fold them into long strips and apply the ca across the end - cut off when done and apply the next coat.
3. Use a spritzer bottle to apply the CA accelerant (1 shot about 4-5 inches from each blank while the lathe is on). If you apply too much accelerant you will get bubbles and lumps in your CA finish which you will have to sand out.
4. Practice on some slimlines and inexpensive wood
5. Either have a vacuum system to pull the vapors away from you or wear a resperator so you are not breathing the vapor.
6. Practice

Hope this helps.

 

[seawolf]

I went through several products also then I saw and tried the method shown by freethinker in the tutorials. I tried it on some scrap wood at first then to see how good the finnish realy was. I took a gouge and took the wood down again. the ca/blo had penitrated a good depth and was very hard. It is a simple method and works well for me.
Mark

 

[anapolis7]

As a newbie I thought I would weigh in on the CA/BLO discussion.

I do think that the others above are right, I haven't seen anything that looks as good (shiny) and seems to be pretty much indestructible. I had a friend at work that got me into turning. So when I was learning to apply CA/BLO he walked me through the initial process. However, I think the suggestion of going to an IAP meeting and seeing someone do it would be really helpful! I read pretty much everything I could and watched all the videos. I think the secret is that you just have to practice. I spent a Sunday in the garage working on one pen cap for hours because I was not satisfied with my finish. I kept having dull spots where I had sanded off CA. My other big problem was gluing the blanks to the bushings which I fixed by releasing the bushings every few coats so I didn't have one big glue mass on them.

As far as buying supplies goes, I definitely can understand your frustration with buying new tools and chemicals. My advice would be to find something you like and stick to it because you like how it looks. The other thing I have found as a newbie is that there are tools and techniques that you can "get by" with and others that make it a hell of a lot easier. So I wouldn't take it personally if someone uses different gear does something different. Find something that works for you and try other techniques when time and your wallet allow.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[rwyoung]

I too am a new turner and don't have a lot of experience but perhaps that also gives me a bit of fresh perspective.

I've turned maybe 20 pens give or take a few blanks that blew up or I just gave up and turned down to the tubes to start over.

I picked the William O. Young (WOY) method for the BLO/CA. This was after watching his video, Russel's video and reading the three or four docs in the library here about finishing. Also got my start by taking a pen turning class at local Woodcraft and they used the Mylands and HUT products.

All that said, I picked the WOY method because it seemed the most straight forward and had the least number of steps. Occam's Razor and all that.

I've used it to finish black walnut, white oak, black cherry, Indian Rosewood, Caribbean Rosewood, Padauk, maple and a few others. Some of these were for pens, others were just turned between centers for practice and testing.

My durability testing has been in four parts. Part one was to wrap 1/2 of a finished walnut sample in blue tape and carry it around in my pocket for two weeks with change. Other than some dents in the wood and the expected small scratches I could not find any peeling or chipping (ie destructive removal) of the CA. The wrapped part was of course the control sample for comparison. The second part was to take a few blanks and alternate between freezing them overnight and then leaving them in the car during the day. No cracks in the finish. However it hasn't been very warm here so the inside of the car is staying well below 100F. And finally, I have one more walnut blank setting in the window at home. 1/2 covered in several layers of blue tape. This is my crude UV test. No visible change covered to uncovered. But again, not exactly an exhausting test plus I have low-E glass at home. This summer I'll leave it out on the back porch during a dry spell. The final part, and really what will be the proof of the pudding, it to hand out a few of these pens as well as carry one myself for some field testing. One is being carried around in a friend's purse (and she is one of those crammed-full-to-overflowing purse types so a good torture test), one is pretty much a desk pen, mine are every-day carry pens and a few others getting mixed duty. As much a test of the metal plating as the wood finish.

All this said, I've had no serious problems in my small sample set. Only complaint is a bad transmission in a comfort pen.

I have made a few small changes to William's method. I'm trying to keep them down to one small change at a time. The changes are:
1) Sand to 600 grit. This is for no other reason than because I can. For all grits, I sand with lathe on, same speed as turning (around 2000rpm) then with fresh spot of the same grit and lathe off I sand along the blank. Wipe off and inspect that the circular scratches are removed and replaced by fine longitundinal ones or not visible at all. My biggest concen is to remove tooling marks at the corsest grits. Just being a geek.

2) Clean between grits with mineral spirits. Primarily because I've made most of my pens from rosewoods and padauk and they can be a bit on the oily side.

3) I'm not using paste wax on the bushings but rather a chunk of paraffin that I keep around for rubbing plane soles. Seems fine and maybe a bit more controlled application than paste. No peeling/chipping of finish when removing bushings and blank from mandrel. In a couple of instances when the bushing wouldn't seperate with gentle twisting I used a razor knife to score the CA right at the junction between the bushing shoulder and the blank. Then all it took was a very gentle twist.

4) After the last coat (6 is my minimum, 12 my maximum so far, depends on how things look after 6) I've used the HUT PPP waxes. This change was done with the last few because the waxed pen just "feels" better to me. Highly subjective and I doubt it adds anything else to the process.

FYI, the BLO I'm using is the "cheap" stuff from Ace Hardware. The CA is 2P-10 medium from Fastcap. And the paper towels are the cheap Oasis kind from Walmart.

 

[ngeb528]

Hey Goofy,

Thought I'd weigh in on this too.

I just started using William's method for the CA/BLO finish.

1st try, I ended up with small ridges - probably because I used thick CA, as it was all I had. I sanded it down to remove the ridges, then tried thin. It seems to work for me.

You end up doing a lot more layers, but I don't have the ridges problem that I had to begin with.

I think everyone starts with someone else's method, then changes things to suit their own style and comfort level.

I think you also have to be flexible, because the same method doesn't necessarily work the same on different woods.

Trial, error and patience.

 

[ldb2000]

Is CA/BLO that much better a finish if you don't have to worry about your pens being sold?
RdG

Only if you care that the pens you give as gifts look like crap after a couple of months in some ones sweaty shirt pockets .