workinforwood
Member
Jr Statesman II , Maple and walnut with maple and walnut dowels. The writing barrel is 4 laminated strips alternating. Finish is System 3 Mirror Coat.
Dowel Segmented Statesman
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Very nice looking pen.Great design.
rherrell
Member
Good looking pen Jeff! Very creative.
7miles
Member
Very nice Jeff. I like it
Jim15
Member
Great pen, nice work.
Ligget
Member
Lovely pen, I can really appreciate the amount of work that was involved in the glue up![:0][
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]kkwall
Member
Nice work. Cool[8D]
jtate
Member
Nice! Can you elaborate on application of this finish?
workinforwood
Member
Sure, this is system 3 mirror coat which is bar top epoxy. Very tough stuff when it dries. I mix up the finish 2:1 in a cup using large syringes. It's important to get the mix close to right, too much hardener and it won't harden. I set a clean piece of wood over the cup and let it sit for 1.5 - 2 hrs. During this time, you turn your pen or whatever else you do, the wood keeps dust out of the finish as it slowly begins to thicken in the cup. You apply it like CA, just a baggy over the finger, you wipe it across the pen with lathe on slow speed. I wipe back and forth a few times, pressing a bit harder as I go to squeegee the finish. This stuff is really thick and you want to try and thin it down on the blank so it doesn't pool on the bottom of the blank when lathe is off. Don't worry about a wavy look, it smooths itself out in only a few minutes. I set a clean dust free board over the top of the lathe like a roof to help keep dust from settling. Every so often I go over and turn the wheel 1/2 turn. Takes about 6 hrs total to set, but since I leave it in the cup for a few, takes only about 4 hrs to set. Finish is very thick and very hard, but not for several days. You can wet sand it the next day, but if you use anything that gets hot, like wax or polishes, it will melt the finish off. If you wait a week, then the heat is not such a problem. No matter how thin I spread it, only takes one coat and I can always see a horizon in the finish, meaning it's nice and thick like glass.
I heard that fishing pole manufacturing people, or some of them use this same set up. This is just what I heard of course, but makes sense. They have a small motor that turns a long rod or several rods and the fishing pole handles are on the rods. The rod turns very very slow. The handles have the bar top finish on them. The entire setup inside a filtered dust free case. The slow spinning means no puddling on the bottom. Your pen will look amazing at first, but if the finish is too thick it will slowly pool at the bottom <sag>, then you have to turn the pen and keep turning it, so with a set-up that constantly turns it super slow, you have no problems like sag, and if it was dust free completely, you would not have to even sand you pen. If you apply this finish right, and do not sand it, it will be the glossiest pen possible. Unfortunately I always get a couple dots of dust and have to sand the pen and buff it out. I'm seriously considering building a contraption to enclose and spin blanks at super slow speeds and using delrin bushings. You think CA sticks a pen to a bushing...this stuff sticks the blank to a bushing like white on rice!
I heard that fishing pole manufacturing people, or some of them use this same set up. This is just what I heard of course, but makes sense. They have a small motor that turns a long rod or several rods and the fishing pole handles are on the rods. The rod turns very very slow. The handles have the bar top finish on them. The entire setup inside a filtered dust free case. The slow spinning means no puddling on the bottom. Your pen will look amazing at first, but if the finish is too thick it will slowly pool at the bottom <sag>, then you have to turn the pen and keep turning it, so with a set-up that constantly turns it super slow, you have no problems like sag, and if it was dust free completely, you would not have to even sand you pen. If you apply this finish right, and do not sand it, it will be the glossiest pen possible. Unfortunately I always get a couple dots of dust and have to sand the pen and buff it out. I'm seriously considering building a contraption to enclose and spin blanks at super slow speeds and using delrin bushings. You think CA sticks a pen to a bushing...this stuff sticks the blank to a bushing like white on rice!
louisbry
Member
Jeff, beautiful pen and nice design. Your system 3 mirror coat really shines but it seems very time consuming.
johncrane
Member
Interesting.[]
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bitshird
Member
Looks like a lot of work, but then most things that are actually very nice usually are a lot of work [)]
)]jtate
Member
Very cool! Thanks for the explanation. I just used System Three Clear Coat on a bowl. I cut a groove in the top and of the lip of the bowl, inset abalone chips, and then poured in the Clear Coat for the "bar top" effect, sealing in the abalone. I've let it sit for about ten days now. I have to rechuck it and fix a few things and then turn the bottom. I really like this product but it ain't cheap.
Wonder if this product would work to dip the pen parts in the set up mixture like one does when usin lacquer? I have been pretty happy with that process, letting the pens hang on a threaded rod till the lacquer cures (a day usually).
Wonder if this product would work to dip the pen parts in the set up mixture like one does when usin lacquer? I have been pretty happy with that process, letting the pens hang on a threaded rod till the lacquer cures (a day usually).
workinforwood
Member
If you dip it, I'd love to hear how it works out. If you can keep 100% of the dust off it,you'll eliminate any sanding and so your pen will be so glossy it will look like it's coated in actual glass, which is what I like. Later in the summer I hope to play around with the motorized idea, build a self contained box where I can finish it in a totally dust free environment and let the pen slowly spin on a 6 hr timer so it can't sag. If you have a system set up, the time involved becomes reduced and the results get better.
Marc Phillips
Member
Beautiful pen indeed....
It took me quite awhile to get my CA finish the way I like it... I don't do this for a living, so it was a loooooong time!
I can't see the advantage to the system 3 finish you describe... especially when you start talking about building a dust free box and needing a motor! .... so, what am I talking about? ... I have no clue
... oh wait, I remember!
What advantages do you see in the system 3 finish? ... I thought CA was some pretty hard and durable stuff, and I don't have to wait for it to dry (other than degassing once the pen is finished) so I can keep turning... you said it really sticks the bushings.... ya gotta mix the stuff... can't sand for a week?
OK... what's the advantages?
I can see some great potential for some experimenting with gluing stuff to the blank, then coating it with system 3... like they do on a bar top with coins and seashells and stuff... unlimited potential with that... or is the finish not thick enough to cover some smaller stuff?
Anyway, sorry to ramble... love the pen, and it's always interesting to try new stuff!
It took me quite awhile to get my CA finish the way I like it... I don't do this for a living, so it was a loooooong time!
I can't see the advantage to the system 3 finish you describe... especially when you start talking about building a dust free box and needing a motor! .... so, what am I talking about? ... I have no clue
What advantages do you see in the system 3 finish? ... I thought CA was some pretty hard and durable stuff, and I don't have to wait for it to dry (other than degassing once the pen is finished) so I can keep turning... you said it really sticks the bushings.... ya gotta mix the stuff... can't sand for a week?
OK... what's the advantages?
I can see some great potential for some experimenting with gluing stuff to the blank, then coating it with system 3... like they do on a bar top with coins and seashells and stuff... unlimited potential with that... or is the finish not thick enough to cover some smaller stuff?
Anyway, sorry to ramble... love the pen, and it's always interesting to try new stuff!
workinforwood
Member
It's cheaper than CA. Sure you have to spend about $35 for the product, but if you break it down cost wise compared to the quantity, you save alot of money.
You don't have to build a dust free environment, but if you do, then you don't have to sand and polish and end up with a pen that is many times more glossy than CA can be no matter how much you might polish the CA.
You only need one coat, the stuff is so thick you see a beautiful <in my opinion>, horizon in the finish.
You don't ever get clouds in the finish.
Sticks like mad to metal, but if you use delrin bushings, that problem is no longer a problem.
If you get dust on it, you have to sand and polish it like you would CA, and then you get the same gloss factor as CA, but you do still get the thick horizon.
You can sand it next day if you use water and care, but like i said, keep the dust away, and you don't even need sand it, looks better unsanded, like it is in wet glass.
If you are in a hurry, this isn't the finish for you. If you have lots of time and CA is a hassle for you, this finish will knock your socks off.
As far as hardness goes, I believe it will outlast CA. Just think about the objects that have system 3 on them..bar tops, tables, stools..look at the abuse those get, especially a stool, and the finish keeps on going. It's really not a difficult finish to apply at all, I just like to be sure people know what they are getting into should they want to try it. Let ya'll know some of the downsides I've experienced, and experiment with ways to counter the downsides. You look at a product like enduro, or laquer, and the downsides are practically the same..dust and wait time. I think enduro is probably the best, and deffinitely the strongest finish if you use the strengthening agent available for it. Only real difference between that and this is the added gloss and thickness of the system 3 is what I like. It all comes down to what you want your pen to look like.
You don't have to build a dust free environment, but if you do, then you don't have to sand and polish and end up with a pen that is many times more glossy than CA can be no matter how much you might polish the CA.
You only need one coat, the stuff is so thick you see a beautiful <in my opinion>, horizon in the finish.
You don't ever get clouds in the finish.
Sticks like mad to metal, but if you use delrin bushings, that problem is no longer a problem.
If you get dust on it, you have to sand and polish it like you would CA, and then you get the same gloss factor as CA, but you do still get the thick horizon.
You can sand it next day if you use water and care, but like i said, keep the dust away, and you don't even need sand it, looks better unsanded, like it is in wet glass.
If you are in a hurry, this isn't the finish for you. If you have lots of time and CA is a hassle for you, this finish will knock your socks off.
As far as hardness goes, I believe it will outlast CA. Just think about the objects that have system 3 on them..bar tops, tables, stools..look at the abuse those get, especially a stool, and the finish keeps on going. It's really not a difficult finish to apply at all, I just like to be sure people know what they are getting into should they want to try it. Let ya'll know some of the downsides I've experienced, and experiment with ways to counter the downsides. You look at a product like enduro, or laquer, and the downsides are practically the same..dust and wait time. I think enduro is probably the best, and deffinitely the strongest finish if you use the strengthening agent available for it. Only real difference between that and this is the added gloss and thickness of the system 3 is what I like. It all comes down to what you want your pen to look like.
RichAldrich
Member
Jeff: Do you still turn the blanks down to the same diameter of the bushings? Is the finish thicker than a ca finish? Do you have to make any other adjustments?
Thank You
R
Thank You
R
Marc Phillips
Member
I am intrigued by the idea of a really thick finish... and the idea that a pen could have the same bullet proof finish that a bar or a bar stool has is amazing!
I am still wondering about adhering some sort of decorative coating (brass filings?..etc) to the blank then coating it with system 3... might be fun to play with some stuff from Michaels... glitter, whatever...
Thanks for taking the time to post all this information... I think it could open up some new windows!
workinforwood
Member
I spin the blanks undersize. It is a much thicker finish. If you make delrin bushings, they should also be slightly smaller than the regular bushings. Otherwise there will be a swoop upwards where the finish goes over the bushings. The blanks are simply cut with a box knife between the bushings and the blank, without cutting the bushings. The finish just pulls off the delrin as it doesn't stick to it..or well it does stick but barely and is removed with not much effort by just pulling it with your fingernails. Then you trim the ends, remove any sharpness, that's what I do anyhow.
I'd like to someday have an assembly line like machine where I can make all my pens, install them with delrin bushing and finish several pens at one time as they slowly spin in a confined box. I have a big intarsia project I have to build over the next several months first though. You need to give the stuff a try. When/if you do, then you'll really understand the want for a dust free box with a very slow turning motor to spin the blanks. The goal is to not do any sanding or buffing at all, because you'll see when the finish is on it's just the way you want it to stay. It's is a battle to stop the finish from sagging on the pen if you put it on too thick which is easily done, but if the pen is spinning at a very very slow speed, like maybe a revolution every minute, there wouldn't be any sag, and there isn't any waves because the finish levels itself out. If someone out there was has lots of time to fiddle with inventions, feel free to have at it. Heck, if you could build something with an adjustable speed so you could turn it up to apply the finish, then drop it down to a snails pace, and be able to spin half a dozen or more pens at a time, and keep the price within a few hundred bucks, I think you could sell a bunch.
I'd like to someday have an assembly line like machine where I can make all my pens, install them with delrin bushing and finish several pens at one time as they slowly spin in a confined box. I have a big intarsia project I have to build over the next several months first though. You need to give the stuff a try. When/if you do, then you'll really understand the want for a dust free box with a very slow turning motor to spin the blanks. The goal is to not do any sanding or buffing at all, because you'll see when the finish is on it's just the way you want it to stay. It's is a battle to stop the finish from sagging on the pen if you put it on too thick which is easily done, but if the pen is spinning at a very very slow speed, like maybe a revolution every minute, there wouldn't be any sag, and there isn't any waves because the finish levels itself out. If someone out there was has lots of time to fiddle with inventions, feel free to have at it. Heck, if you could build something with an adjustable speed so you could turn it up to apply the finish, then drop it down to a snails pace, and be able to spin half a dozen or more pens at a time, and keep the price within a few hundred bucks, I think you could sell a bunch.
jtate
Member
Where does one get Delrin with which to turn bushings to which this stuff won't stick?
If one did a dip-method for application, do you think you'd have to cut the wooden pen parts a little smaller than the kit parts that are going into them? I thought I'd have to do that with the lacquer finished parts but the finish turns out to be so microscopically thin that it's not really necessary. Id rather have the finish a tiny bit proud of the kit part than have the kit part a tad too big for the pen part. Excat is better but maybe not possible.
If one did a dip-method for application, do you think you'd have to cut the wooden pen parts a little smaller than the kit parts that are going into them? I thought I'd have to do that with the lacquer finished parts but the finish turns out to be so microscopically thin that it's not really necessary. Id rather have the finish a tiny bit proud of the kit part than have the kit part a tad too big for the pen part. Excat is better but maybe not possible.
workinforwood
Member
Joe at turncrafters sells them, you have to spin them to the size you need though. Johnny CNC sells them already spun down to size you need and can make them to be a few thousands undersized if need be. Find him in the classifieds for bushings.
I do think you will have to spin undersized. Not a ton, maybe 1/4 the thickness of a credit card? If you it's wrong and undersized, re-dip it.
I do think you will have to spin undersized. Not a ton, maybe 1/4 the thickness of a credit card? If you it's wrong and undersized, re-dip it.
jtate
Member
I really think the dipping method is worth your while. No machine to build. No sagging to worry with. If the finish is a little thick at the down ward end, just reverse the blank so that the downward end is now up for the second dipping. This evens it out.
The only down-side to dipping is that you do have to make up enough of the product to actually dip it into, instead of just enough to spread on it. I think it's justifiable if you have several pens to do at once - which means having several sets of bushings. Alternatively do one pen and have a turned bowl that needs finishing ready. After dipping your pen, use the rest of your finish material to coat your bowl fo a fabulous finish on it too.
Just my thoughts, though.
Julia
The only down-side to dipping is that you do have to make up enough of the product to actually dip it into, instead of just enough to spread on it. I think it's justifiable if you have several pens to do at once - which means having several sets of bushings. Alternatively do one pen and have a turned bowl that needs finishing ready. After dipping your pen, use the rest of your finish material to coat your bowl fo a fabulous finish on it too.
Just my thoughts, though.
Julia
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