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leehljp

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I love the new forum, but It seems like it might be a little overwhelming to new comers. I know what I am looking for and sometimes I have to hunt for what I want. . . and I am a big boy, so I can do that. ;) However, if I were just coming on to this forum and if I were a basic newbie to pen turning, I might be overwhelmed. Currently, it seems to me and this is my opinion only (and I have a mixed up international mindset anyway) - it seems. currently it focuses more on the "ones in the know" and the "used to this forum" crowd. I don't mean that as a negative, but for drawing the new people in to pen turning, my thought would be that "Penturning" and "Show Off Your Pen" could be closer to the top or front to pull new ones into the first things they need.

The rest of us who know this forum and the power and skills in the more details, we are used to the forum enough to know what is here and know that we can find it. But to pull new people in, put the things they look for first - up close to the top or front. This kinda goes back to the "Front Page" we used to have. I am not suggesting it now, but something to pull the new folks in more, than say the technical and conversations that are currently up front.

Something my oddball psychology/family counseling friends use to say about me: Hank - You see patterns developing before most people and most of the time you see patterns when there aren't any developing! :eek:

Just a thought.
 
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mbroberg

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I think what you are saying is that we should make a conscious effort to put substance before style to make it easier for the younger people to find their way around the forum. We may know what is here and know that we CAN find it, it's just a matter of figuring out HOW to find it. The new forum is going to take a while for some of us, myself included, to become comfortable navigating it. But I am not sure that it's all that foreign to the younger generation. I am amazed at the ability of my Grand Kids to download and open a new program, game, or whatever and immediately know how to use it. I really don't think we should concentrate on tailoring the forum to the new-bes, or noobes as the cool kids say, it is more of a matter of teaching us old dogs new tricks
 
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1080Wayne

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Sure Hank , lets really shake things up . IAP collection , Management team , Local chapters , Group purchases , Metal lathes , all near the bottom . PITH and Polls also farther down . Show off pens up . Apologies to management team and Mark .
 

jttheclockman

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I think we try to over think things. Any newbie coming to any site will have problems finding things. It is their job to navigate and get familiar with the site. Not us to lead them by the hand. These so called kids today if that is what is joining and I do not believe that is the case, have a better understanding of the computer than I ever will. I am still getting used to things and have not figured out what page I want as my home page. I like opening the Whats New page first thing. But that may change.
 

leehljp

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I think what you are saying is that we should make a conscious effort to put substance before style to make it easier for the younger people to find their way around the forum. We may know what is here and know that we CAN find it, it's just a matter of figuring out HOW to find it. The new forum is going to take a while for some of us, myself included, to become comfortable navigating it. But I am not sure that it's all that foreign to the younger generation. I am amazed at the ability of my Grand Kids to download and open a new program, game, or whatever and immediately know how to use it. I really don't think we should concentrate on tailoring the forum to the new-bes, or noobes as the cool kids say, it is more of a matter of teaching us old dogs new tricks
Thanks for the response. I am not suggesting teaching old dogs new tricks! We already know them. I tend to cater to the new guys that want to learn. While this forum has always pushed the envelope in development of pens, it has always maintained a connection to the new folks who don't know CA finishes or other finishes, or the difference between and MT1 and MT2, or the need of SHARP tools. This has been the foundation of the forum through the years. New guys (and ladies) learning and coming up through and then becoming the teacher. When we hide the basics from the new guys and make it hard for them to see, we will begin to loose a generation. I feel that you missed a point in your description of "Grand Kids opening new program" - this is not about IT technology, it is about the guy that doesn't know how to sharpen an HSS or that there is even a thing called "carbide insert" or CA or curing of poly or lacquer of what drill to get to drill a blank all the way through. This is where I started and watched a bunch of guys go through this same learning.

IF the forums were not easily labeled back then, then I would have figured it out, but many people did just give up by the plethora of members with 1 or 2 posts or no posts what so ever. And this will happen again. Again, it seems from your and other posts that the intent is - for those that "already know", and that will lead to a downturn in short order if we keep that attitude up.

I do appreciate all of the work that is being done. Jeff has asked for input. I gave some. Should I jump on you when you offer a new suggestion? Come on, we should be on the same team.
 

jttheclockman

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Hank I think we need things to continue to evolve here on the site and the Library will be revamped and other forums may come into being. But for the time it is basically as it always has been, ask a question and it gets answered. Having a beginners forum maybe a good suggestion. It has been tried here before with beginners threads and what is needed tool wise and things like that. Those links can be supplied for now. This change will never be complete as was the other one. It is always evolving. Maybe things will be easier for jeff as he too gets a better grip on what this site can do. You have a good thought and hope you pursue it.
 

GaryMGg

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Couple thoughts:

1.
The new kids will find things easier than us old guys so long as the UI is intuitive.
They’ve grown up in a digital world.
This is natural to them.

2.
Nothing really has to move or be re-organized. The only thing which might be useful is adding Penturning and SOYPs to the TOC Menu.

3.
I’d like to see forum software which allows users to create their own customized TOC Menus for their individual accounts. I’m guessing this forum has some capability using Bookmarks although I haven’t had time to test this yet.
 

leehljp

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Couple thoughts:

1.
The new kids will find things easier than us old guys so long as the UI is intuitive.
They’ve grown up in a digital world.
This is natural to them.

2.
Nothing really has to move or be re-organized. The only thing which might be useful is adding Penturning and SOYPs to the TOC Menu.

3.
I’d like to see forum software which allows users to create their own customized TOC Menus for their individual accounts. I’m guessing this forum has some capability using Bookmarks although I haven’t had time to test this yet.
Gary, I appreciate your reply and John's above. No disrespect at all meant to you but I do see an area of misunderstanding. We do understand technology and concerning the new guys, there is an assumption that they are technology savvy. I have found on other forums that foundational woodworkers are not always as tech savvy as we think they are. I work in an environment in which people hide their lack of understanding and do a dang good job of it. I know we have a lot of tech people here; I know we have young people who are tech savvy. But a good percentage of middle age and retirees (which is the largest number of new members) are not as tech savvy as the new young and millenniums. I am speaking (writing) about the ones who couldn't figure out how to post pictures before or get decent searches (I learned basic Unix programming in Japan in the late 80s' and HTML when it WAS HTML) but I still could not figure out the search on the old forum. And that is me. This new forum will be good and things are looking bright, but lets not make an assumption that newbies are all tech savvy and can find their way around when they don't know what a carbide insert is, or a 2 1/2 to 3 in drill depth is or the difference between CA and lacquer. These are the things that are hidden from the old newbies and some of the younger newbies.

I like your idea # 2.
 

GaryMGg

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Hi Hank

I hadn’t thought about new folks being old folks.
I’m an old nerd dating back to the days of AIX, OPEN LOOK Solaris Motif, and rec.woodworking— to name a few.
Given the membership numbers you site, I would agree with your analysis.
 

leehljp

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I apologize to you fellows. I just realized with Gary's post above that most of you don't necessarily follow the "introductions" like I do, and a few others follow similarly. I check out their background when possible to find out where they are coming from with their questions to gain "context".
Yes, if you check, the majority group in introductions (haven't run numbers but it will probably be close to 50%) - will be retirees. A few from tech background, but the most are not.

Again, apologies fellows, I just assumed we were seeing the same thing!

Gary, I was not great at unix and HTML, and it wasn't easy for me - Having a non-English speaking Japanese teaching me made it somewhat difficult. I did finally learn enough to know what was going on. Never will forget my FIRST foray into a Unix forum in Tokyo! I had to just shut the computer off; had no idea how to back out of those forums that first time.
 
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1080Wayne

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Guess my first attempt to support Hank was considered too radical to be commented upon , so will try a long-winded approach .

The `product` that this site sells (gives away freely) is information on all aspects of penturning . That is its `raison d`etre`. Almost all of the new members express a desire to learn about at least some part of the process . Many have followed the forum for months or years before joining , and perhaps have recognized that some pens shown here require skills they haven`t mastered . Some have lots of flat woodwork or carpentry experience , but have never turned . Others have turned metal , but not wood . Some have zero experience with tools of any kind .

So , the question that comes to mind is `Of those who come to the site for the very first time , which is their access page ?` Ideally , that page should be the one that makes it easy to find the answer or answers they want . We enter at the page that serves our needs best . For me , that is the Forums page . I might look at Home page once a month , but you may always enter there . Jeff can easily determine entrance page breakdown for the collective all visitors , but probably not for first time visitors .

All of us want to pass our knowledge down to the broadest possible audience . That is the best way to ensure that our skills survive . The most effective way to achieve this is to make the information very easy to find .

Good night all . I hope to wake up in the morning , ready to learn something new .
 

gdub

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Something my oddball psychology/family counseling friends use to say about me: Hank - You see patterns developing before most people and most of the time you see patterns when there aren't any developing! :eek:

Just a thought.
Have you ever been a visitor to a church? You enter the front door, see groups of people milling around but you don't know where to go? IMO, that's what the front page here feels like. Don't get me wrong. The staff, members and software here are great. But the landing page is not geared for visitors. So, if a visitor is not welcomed at the front door, why would he stay?

I went to the home page and logged out. Thinking like a person who has never seen this site, I tried to see info telling me about penturners.org.- didn't see much. No intro paragraph. No webmaster comments. Just a menu bar, a slider of pictures and then recent threads that is geared for returning members. Where is the info for a new member? What will attract him to stay? Who are IAP?

I feel that once a person decides to hang around and click on the Forum Page, they will stay around. They will search for the pen, blank, finish tutorial, etc. that initiated their web wonderings.

Please don't think I'm bashing the site- far from it. You folks here are awesome and software is good. But as a member who visits often, says little, and has not built relations here, my perspective is a little different.
If the site is built for members-- well done! If it is built for visitors or increasing membership, then I think a little front page work is still needed to invite folks inside
 

jttheclockman

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Have you ever been a visitor to a church? You enter the front door, see groups of people milling around but you don't know where to go? IMO, that's what the front page here feels like. Don't get me wrong. The staff, members and software here are great. But the landing page is not geared for visitors. So, if a visitor is not welcomed at the front door, why would he stay?

I went to the home page and logged out. Thinking like a person who has never seen this site, I tried to see info telling me about penturners.org.- didn't see much. No intro paragraph. No webmaster comments. Just a menu bar, a slider of pictures and then recent threads that is geared for returning members. Where is the info for a new member? What will attract him to stay? Who are IAP?

I feel that once a person decides to hang around and click on the Forum Page, they will stay around. They will search for the pen, blank, finish tutorial, etc. that initiated their web wonderings.

Please don't think I'm bashing the site- far from it. You folks here are awesome and software is good. But as a member who visits often, says little, and has not built relations here, my perspective is a little different.
If the site is built for members-- well done! If it is built for visitors or increasing membership, then I think a little front page work is still needed to invite folks inside

So basically what you are saying is you would like the Forum page to be the Home Page. Not to dispute that but I do belong to many different forums (and I just now went to look at 5 different ones )and none of them have an introduction forum on the front page or Home page. But they all do have a Forums button that opens to all the different forums and usually the top one is the intro page and probably the rules of the site. Now I think we say newbie with this small child in mind all the time here or that is the impression whenever I hear the term. If someone is interested right away they would come in and look around and the first button they would hit would be the forum button or at least that is the way I do it when going to a new site. This shows what they offer.

But I bet your suggestion and I believe what Hank is suggesting which sounds close to the same will get looked at in the future. jeff can answer to it better.
 
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mbroberg

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Should I jump on you when you offer a new suggestion? Come on, we should be on the same team.
Jump on you? I was unaware that the expression of my opinion was "Jumping" on you or anyone else. After all, as you said,

Jeff has asked for input. I gave some.
Your post expressed your opinion that basic content or content about the basics of penturning may be too difficult for newer members to find and that we (Jeff) should make it easier for them to find. My post expressed my opinion that as long as the information is there they will be able to find it and that they will probably be able to navigate the site more easily than some of us older guys. If they can't find what they are looking for all they need to do is ask. I'm sorry that you feel that was "Jumping" on you.

Here is another one of my opinions. More prominent placing content about the basics of penturning is not a bad idea but with everything else Jeff is trying to tackle these days I don't put as high a priority on it as you apparently do.
 
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leehljp

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Team members here, I apologize for not being articulate as I would like to be. As I said - my excuse is a discombobulated mind - Gary "grub" expressed exactly what I have been "seeing". I also mis-represented something else. It is not only the new "older" people i.e. retirees, but reading between the lines it is other ages as well. 26 years of Japanese culture and language taught me to read between the lines and how to do it fairly accurately. It is hard for me to express this in English, but it is a reality. Gary expressed succinctly and accurately something I think some of us are missing. Thank you Gary.

Wayne, I want to apologize to you also; sometimes I don't know which side of my brain is doing the perceiving and " I " mis-read your intent. Thank you for your input!

This started out as some suggestions in which to move towards soon and was intended as such, . . . not as a slam against the current teams. There have been other suggestions that got changed immediately - and no one complained, only praised. The things that Gary wrote about are obvious to me, I see them in other peoples questions and searches. But for us old timers here, we tend to not see them as important and something that can be done down the road, while in reality, it is the things that should be done early on - unless we want to change our target audience to us old timers.

Lastly, one thing I have learned from experience of being around people around the world, in a new environment, for every 1 person that comments, there are 10 that will not. With old timers, 1 in 2 will comment and that will weigh heavily on what gets done, to the neglect of the 10 who quietly move on or do not participate. I promise you, this is a fairly universal truth. I work too much with demographics folks who learned that quality demographics and quantity demographics are two different animals.
 
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jeff

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Thanks for this thread! I will read it thoroughly as soon as I get some Saturday chores done.

I am in complete agreement that what we have now is very functional, but not very welcoming. I have been focused on getting things straightened out on the back end - photos, the library, etc. You may not have noticed it, but I also consolidated a lot of old bash forums and such, and you probably saw my thread on getting rid of inactive vendor forums. I want to arrive at a cleaner, more minimalist site that is easy to get around.

So keep the good suggestions coming.
 

jeff

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Sure Hank , lets really shake things up . IAP collection , Management team , Local chapters , Group purchases , Metal lathes , all near the bottom . PITH and Polls also farther down . Show off pens up . Apologies to management team and Mark .
Two thumbs up on this one, Wayne. I definitely think SOYP and penturning need to be some of the first things obvious.
 

Curly

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Could it be a simple as a a line at the top of the home page and forum page that says "Welcome New Comers! Click here for information about using this forum." ? Once clicked it would take them to a page subdivided into a brief welcome, history and aims of the forum. The layout. How to find things. Mention of the library. What's in the forums. The expected conduct and rules. In short most everything a new to site person should/would want to know to get going. If that's not welcoming enough or too much to do then they wouldn't be sticking around anyway.
 

jeff

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Have you ever been a visitor to a church? You enter the front door, see groups of people milling around but you don't know where to go? IMO, that's what the front page here feels like. Don't get me wrong. The staff, members and software here are great. But the landing page is not geared for visitors. So, if a visitor is not welcomed at the front door, why would he stay?

I went to the home page and logged out. Thinking like a person who has never seen this site, I tried to see info telling me about penturners.org.- didn't see much. No intro paragraph. No webmaster comments. Just a menu bar, a slider of pictures and then recent threads that is geared for returning members. Where is the info for a new member? What will attract him to stay? Who are IAP?

I feel that once a person decides to hang around and click on the Forum Page, they will stay around. They will search for the pen, blank, finish tutorial, etc. that initiated their web wonderings.

Please don't think I'm bashing the site- far from it. You folks here are awesome and software is good. But as a member who visits often, says little, and has not built relations here, my perspective is a little different.
If the site is built for members-- well done! If it is built for visitors or increasing membership, then I think a little front page work is still needed to invite folks inside
Great observations! I don't spend enough time looking at the site from a visitor's perspective. I just did and you're right on - it's not exactly designed to lure in the curious and uninitiated.

I'd welcome some specific suggestions, or a napkin sketch, or a pointer to what might be considered a good example. I have been under water trying to get things done. As soon as I can get my head out of the database, I can begin to focus on the look and feel, and I'll take everyone's suggestions into consideration. My Success Rule #1: use all the help you can get.
 

jeff

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Could it be a simple as a a line at the top of the home page and forum page that says "Welcome New Comers! Click here for information about using this forum." ? Once clicked it would take them to a page subdivided into a brief welcome, history and aims of the forum. The layout. How to find things. Mention of the library. What's in the forums. The expected conduct and rules. In short most everything a new to site person should/would want to know to get going. If that's not welcoming enough or too much to do then they wouldn't be sticking around anyway.
That's a great suggestion. Pretty much all that exists somewhere here, bringing it together in a single article would be great.
Here's the PM we send when a member joins. It could be beefed up with some links, etc.

Hello, {name}, and thanks for joining the IAP!

We apologize for any delay in approving your membership. Each registration is evaluated by a human (me!) to make sure a real person is joining, and not some spambot or scammer. We take great pride in keeping the good guys protected by keeping the bad guys out.

You've just joined the best pen making organization and community on the Internet. If you're a new pen maker, we promise you'll learn a lot and improve your skills. If you're a seasoned pen maker, we hope you'll share your knowledge and experience with us. Regardless of your pen making history and goals, we promise you'll make new friends and enjoy the camaraderie of our community.

Please stop by our Introductions forum and say hello.

The IAP is managed by a dedicated team of volunteers who share a common interest in penmaking as well as a desire to help the IAP thrive and grow. Please don't hesitate to contact me directly if I can help make your experience with us more enjoyable.

Best Regards - Jeff Brown, IAP co-founder
 

gdub

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So basically what you are saying is you would like the Forum page to be the Home Page. Not to dispute that but I do belong to many different forums (and I just now went to look at 5 different ones )and none of them have an introduction forum on the front page or Home page. But they all do have a Forums button that opens to all the different forums and usually the top one is the intro page and probably the rules of the site. Now I think we say newbie with this small child in mind all the time here or that is the impression whenever I hear the term. If someone is interested right away they would come in and look around and the first button they would hit would be the forum button or at least that is the way I do it when going to a new site. This shows what they offer.

But I bet your suggestion and I believe what Hank is suggesting which sounds close to the same will get looked at in the future. jeff can answer to it better.
Well, yes and no. I guess what I'm saying is this site is designed and built by members, for members. And there is nothing wrong with that if that is IAP's goal. Adding some "who we are" info on the front pg would be a plus

I am a mod on a DIY home improvement forum. It's been several years now. I am a plumber by trade so that is the page I have bookmarked as my landing page, not the home page. I answer questions in the plumbing board if needed, then I mosey over to the recent post page or subscribed thread page...... Or I get involved in "Mod threads" in the back rm. that is off limits to regular members.
All of this is done without seeing the home page or main forum pg. I know the members and I know my way around the site very well. I know the ins and outs of that vbulletin site as I am sure you do for this site.
The site owner has several forums listed in their footer. 12 to be exact. It's a mixed bag as far as the home page goes. Some are articles. Some are forum main page. Still others are similar to here with recent posts/threads/articles. What they all have in common though is an invitation inviting a visitor inside.
 

leehljp

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An analogy, if you will allow me. Large Car dealership, re-locating. (I know, This is not a car dealership).
The dealership gets the building done and equipment in. Well organized, offices, computers, parts department, service department; people rehearsed the basics with the leaders of each department knowing what to do. Well organized, then on opening day, they bring the cars over.

Chaos in the cars; where are which cars? "Cars for sale" were placed a little further down the priority list.
What is the purpose of a car dealership? - First and foremost Car SALES. Someone comes and everything is well organized but the cars come in last, the customer will go to where he can find the car he wants.

Scenario 2: Fairly well organized but not completely. All of the cars there; While administration is trying to sort out the bumps, there are cars all over the place and up front. Someone spots the car they want. Once a person sees tons of cars there, and the one they want, they will put up with a little disorganization in the sales office or parts department or shop. The primary purpose of being there is to find and buy that one car they want.

I know organization is important. Suggestions have been made and they were appreciated. For us - That still did not move us to the primary thing that draws new people in: Pens

Without cars, all the organization is not going to help. Similarly, With pens they should be up front close to the beginning. Another phrase: “Keep the main thing the main thing” and the rewards will be great. Pens are the main thing, here. That is what we usually gather around and congratulate each other or question each other about, or offer suggestions concerning.
 

GaryMGg

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Lumberjocks.com has a very good UI.


Between Roll The Dice, the Top Fifteen, and the two links to the newest projects, navigation is quick and easy.

I believe it’s something worth looking at for consideration.
 

jttheclockman

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Well, yes and no. I guess what I'm saying is this site is designed and built by members, for members. And there is nothing wrong with that if that is IAP's goal. Adding some "who we are" info on the front pg would be a plus

I am a mod on a DIY home improvement forum. It's been several years now. I am a plumber by trade so that is the page I have bookmarked as my landing page, not the home page. I answer questions in the plumbing board if needed, then I mosey over to the recent post page or subscribed thread page...... Or I get involved in "Mod threads" in the back rm. that is off limits to regular members.
All of this is done without seeing the home page or main forum pg. I know the members and I know my way around the site very well. I know the ins and outs of that vbulletin site as I am sure you do for this site.
The site owner has several forums listed in their footer. 12 to be exact. It's a mixed bag as far as the home page goes. Some are articles. Some are forum main page. Still others are similar to here with recent posts/threads/articles. What they all have in common though is an invitation inviting a visitor inside.
Well let me say no I do not know my way around this site that well because it has been up for only a couple weeks and still learning. Jeff did say that he will address this in the future after more pressing issues. And finally it is amazing we are talking about Newbies learning what the site is all about and yet in the past year we had record number of newbies joining. Did not seem to stop those newbies on the other site. Just seems odd. But lets see what Jeff comes up with down the road.
 

mark james

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I've been following this thread and wanted to re-read some of the comments before I dove in. In the last year I have expressed thoughts on a few occasions that "on the screen" did not reflect my real intent; possibly offending some, and most certainly not conveying what I wanted to relay. I do believe some of that is in play here - good intentions, but mis-interpreted or mis-conveyed.

But to add to the conversation at hand - I do believe the IAP site can/will be tweaked to be more nimble and welcoming.

Wayne - No apologies needed. The IAP Collection is a great project, but does not need to be an initial highlight for new members. And I can do a better job of occasionally promoting it with reminders. I personally would place in in the lower lever of visibility.

Gary - I looked at the Lumberjocks site (I've been there before), and in all honesty I don't view it's "first appearance" as any better than what we have at IAP. Its a great site to check out a different initial appearance. Not a real challenge to navigate, but IMO not that much better than our current state. But yes, we can/will improve as the dust storm settles. IAP has a great start for where it/Jeff/Us aspires to be.

And just an opinion... Here are the key IAP Forums, in order, that I have/will look to check out when I log-on. If I could reconfigure my "Home" or top "Forums" screen for these forums, this would be my preferences: (I can get to them now, so no complaints from me).

Casual Conversation
Penturning
Show off your pens
Blank Making - Segmenting
Other things we make
The Library

And in no particular order, but will check these as the titles perk my interest:

Advanced Pen Making
Finishing (I really need to spend more time here)
Metal Lathes
PITH's
Introductions
Local Chapters
The IAP Collection (yes, pretty low!!! I can see them in person)
IAP Marketplace (all misc posts)

AND, I do have about 20-25 IAP members that I will read anything they post because I greatly respect their opinion and expertise.

I have had little shop time the past 4 months, and will not get any until August, but I have started a series of Library articles on segmenting. When Wayne and Jeff get things settled I hope to support the Library Forum.
 

CREID

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
2,890
Location
Vancouver, wa
Wow, this is an interesting thread. I agree with a lot of what has been said. Having said that though. What is welcoming? That is going to mean something completely different to different people. I have sat here and typed in opinion after opinion on this subject and backspaced em all out. There is no definitive solution. What makes things easier for some new members may make it more difficult for other new members. Different people come here for different things. Here is a couple questions for everybody. Has anyone noticed the area I believe it is on the front page (since I never log off sometimes I am not really sure what page is what) but after I click mark forums read the new page has a sidebar with members online and at the bottom of that it says how many people are online here and how many of them are members and how many are guests. So has anyone else noticed that there are almost always more guests than members logged on, and sometimes there may be like 60 members logged on and something like 250 guests. Now this is right in front of my face now with the new site layout and it was not in front of my face before so I don't know if it has always been like that or not. Hell it may just be members not knowing how to logon to the new software for all I know. But every time I see that now It makes me wonder what would it take to get those people to be members instead of just guests lurking around. I have been a member for (well lets just say a while now :) ) and I don't even know what a guest has access to or doesn't have access to, or even if there is an invitation to join popping up in front of them. Ok I'm done now. :)
 

wood-of-1kind

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2005
Messages
4,059
Location
Toronto, ON, Canada
IAP was great and still is a great site regardless of site changes. And I've always felt that "all" are welcomed here, with pretty much all members extending their knowledge and general good vibes to all. The generousity that is often extended here is incredible. In short, given the openness of mind and spirit here, no doubt that Jeff and his Team will continue to improve the site and make everyone feel wanted and inclusive.
 

Curly

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
3,544
Location
Saskatoon SK., Canada.
Creid there always was a people watching area on the old forum but it was along the bottom of the page and there was something that this new forum doesn't have and that was number of people watching this thread when you were reading one. The high number of guests is in part due to search engine bots keeping track of the content and other bots getting information for other purposes.
 

jeff

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
8,130
Location
Westlake, OH, USA.
I'm going to begin making incremental changes based on some of the suggestions in this thread. The first thing I'm going to do it move some forums around, so you'll see changes to the Forums List. One of the things that I'm questioning the value of is the prominent listing of recent threads on the front page. What I think would be more "friendly" is to list the forums in some better order as the main feature, with a sidebar listing of latest threads and posts. We'll play around with a few ideas - keep an eye out for improvements.
 

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
6,922
Location
Tunica, MS,
Jeff, two items that "draw" people in are 1. a photo or two and 2. quick access to view pens - SYOP. As Gary mentioned above concerning the LumberJocks, picts (larger than thumbnails) draws. No need to copy LJ at all, but a single picture or two does DRAW people in and makes them inquisitive.
 

GaryMGg

Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
5,535
Location
McIntosh, Florida, USA.
It looks like Jeff already replaced the pics on the home with Album photos.

Is there a desktop version and is it different? I’ve only looked at the site from my iPhone.
 

GaryMGg

Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
5,535
Location
McIntosh, Florida, USA.
Gary - I looked at the Lumberjocks site (I've been there before), and in all honesty I don't view it's "first appearance" as any better than what we have at IAP. Its a great site to check out a different initial appearance. Not a real challenge to navigate, but IMO not that much better than our current state. But yes, we can/will improve as the dust storm settles. IAP has a great start for where it/Jeff/Us aspires to be.”
All,
I’m not suggesting the IAP adopt the UI from LJ’s.
However, we should learn from their layout and adopt things which benefit this forum.

I have an extensive IT background; I mention this because of the earlier discussion about membership age ranges and computer knowledge. I’m an old guy but I’ve been at this a while and I keep up with new tech pretty well. 😉

When we switched to this new UI, I had to invest some time to learn it—I’m still figuring out some of the features because they’re not self-evident.
Jeff is already making nice changes and I expect it’ll be some time before it’s done.
I guess I’ll just continue to test and provide feedback.
 

jeff

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
8,130
Location
Westlake, OH, USA.
The desktop version is H&S beyond the Mobile.
Is there any setting to obtain a DT view on a Mobile device?
Thank you.
I've found the mobile presentation to be pretty usable. There's an entire art and science to improving the mobile experience, and it's not foolproof. I have left all the viewport breakpoints as defaults, but they can be adjusted. The site should look the same on any device when the viewport is 900px wide or above. In addition to just removing or rearranging the screen based on size, there are a number of changes that can be made for mobile devices which are not based on size.

What don't you like about the mobile experience on the device you're using?

What mobile device are you using and what is the viewport size in the orientation you prefer to use? This link will help.

 

GaryMGg

Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
5,535
Location
McIntosh, Florida, USA.
Hi Jeff

It’s not I don’t like the mobile version—for a mobile version—it’s just the DT version seemed that much better on first blush.

My iPhone (8 plus) has a 414 X 612 viewport.
One issue with using the mobile is responding.
The keyboard covers this widget—I’m typing in the blind.
 
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magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
10,571
Location
Coquitlam, BC, Canada
I just started reading this thread so I am only beginning to get the gist of it.
I am hopeless at intuitively grasping the essentials of new software. . Always have been. . I am an old fart. . My "great" skills are typing and spelling !!!

Some initial reactions I have had ......... FWIW ....

When I click on "What's New", I see a blue bar which is titled "Latest Posts" .... that means something to me, and that is the point where I always start.

When I click on "Forums", I see a blue bar titled "IAP Central" .... that does not mean anything to me, nor would it to a newcomer, I feel.

When I click on "Home", I see a blue bar titled "Photos" .... well, that's sorta OK, but it does not quite feel like "home" .... not quite sure where I am.

......

Everything feels very new, and it will for some time in spite of my 9 year history here. . But I have the utmost confidence in Admin that things will improve
 
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