Nibs

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

First to set the rules.

A nib is the little metal pointed thing that puts the ink on the paper when you are using a fountain pen.

A nib is not the whole end of a fountain pen that has a threaded end to screw into the pen body. That is the nib holder with the nib installed in it.

If Craft Supplies can sell nib holders with the nib in them for $4.50 each, the nib would be less than half that price. I am thinking in the $1.50 or less range.

I have looked for quite a while for nibs. I can find web sites that sell nibs for $50, $60 $100+, mostly antique or rare ones. Someone somewhere must sell the nibs, the little metal pointy thing without the nib holder. I am talking about the nibs that we get in standard pen kits. I wouldn't mind putting even a $10 nib on a $15 pen kit to improve the writing ability. I cannot put a $60 nib on a $15 pen kit.

I haven't seen every fountain pen kit out there but every one I have seen uses the same nib. No matter what plating or what source of the kit they all have the same nib in them.

Where can you get the nibs? I'd by 10-12 of each grade F, M, L if I could find the dang things.

 

[driften]

Anthony is having some made by a company in Germany that makes nibs for most of the high end pen companies in the world. He said in his thread he might sell some of them. Check out his post on his Jack Knife pen in the show off your pens area...

 

[btboone]

Mac, also check with Richard Binder of www.richardspens.com He is very knowledgeable about this stuff and has quite a collection of them.

 

[woodscavenger]

I am by no means an expert but in the reading I have done (much of it here a few months back) and in taking apart a few of my own nibs/holders it appears that the nib needs to be matched to the holder in size, curvature and location of the slit (forgot the term) in order for the ink flow to be precise. That would make it difficult unless there are only a few sizes out there and our pens happen to have those sizes.

 

[DCBluesman]

Mac--I understand your point BUT believe me when I tell you that there are many of us who have made some pretty exhaustive research on this.

Tony Turchetta found ONE manufacturer who was willing to make ONE nib size that will fit ONE nib adapter. This manufacturer is taking a risk by allowing a small run (anything under 500 is a small run in the nib world). These nibs will be in the $50-75 range--nib only.

I spoke with Namiki who doesn't want to talk about anything less than a 500 nib run per nib width and at that price they indicated that the price would probably run about $100 per nib. Pelikan will sell us (or anyone) their nibs for $137 each.

Russ Fairfield discusses this at length, including his discussions with Richard Kleinhenz (head honcho of the Yahoo penturners and of the Pen Makers Guild) in this link. http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4182&SearchTerms=fountain,pen

If CSUSA or Berea or the others could find a great nib for us at $10 each, I believe they are smart enough to seize the opportunity. None of this is meant to stop anyone from looking and talking, but I think the search will be a very long and difficult journey based on results to date.

 

[PenWorks]

I have looked at allot and talked to allot of pen companies concerning finding gold nibs for our pens. My original quest was to find a gold nib that could be marketed to penmakers. But by doing this, you really narrow the playing field. As the feed system has to mate the specific nib housings we use. It would be far easier to obtain just the gold nib, or just the gold nib with a feeder housing and custom make your pen to it. I have done this with several nibs. But as I said, I wanting something in the way, where if you were marking a Gentlemens/Statesmen pen with a steel nib and your client said he wanted a gold nib, you could just unscrew the nib and feeder and screw in the gold nib and feeder. I was albe to put this together in regards to the two pens mentioned above.

The whole problem with the Jr/Baron pen, was finding a feeder system that would work. Getting the gold nib is possible, but finding a feeder and nib combo to screw in the current housing was not. I am still researching this. No company is going to custom make me a feeder housing for the quanity I want. Another idea I had was to get the Bock company to make me some good steel nibs, they had a 5,000 minimum quanity for steel!

Also, there are few nib companies in the world. Bock makes nibs for allot of companies, I heard Lou throw out a figure like 70%, I would believe this. I have looked at feeders from France, Asia & Germany. I still have more leads to follow up on.

But the size of the Gent nib is a more standard nib size in the pen world, (if there is such a thing as standard) So by having a gold nib allready mated to the feeder is a start. We allready have a housing it will screw into. I am trying to work on some other housings where you can use the same nib and feeder and screw it into housings for other style pens.

So there is my speel for now and I'm sticking to it. I can't give no pricing details yet, because I donot have the final costs. There were allot of variables as well, the spot cost of gold the day the order is placed, the Euro conversion ,shipping and duty, I am hoping to have them for the Provo event. Also, I think my bigger market for these nibs are the pen repair folks, as they are limited to a few dealers for gold nibs.

 

[btboone]

Lou,
I did get some Pelikan gold nibs from Richard Binder for $50 each. He had some steel ones for $18 if I remember.

 

[DCBluesman]

Wow! I'll have to get in touch with him.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

OK, we have basically three major suppliers of pen kits in the US. Each one of them sell fountain pen kits. All those kits from all three sources have nibs in them that if not identical are obviously from the same source.

Where ever the three major suppliers get their pen kits from has barrels of fountain pen nibs sitting there for production. All they need to do is dip a scoop into one of those barrels, dump it in a plastic bag and put it in someones shipment of pen parts.

If you figure that the place you are buying your pen kits is marking up those kits by 50% and a kit can sell for $10 that means that they are paying $5 for the kit. ALL of the kit, all of the parts and pieces the bags and the shipping cost to them.

At the original source of the kit that guy is marking up the kit 50% to sell it to the US supplier, that means the whole kit is costing them $2.50. ALL of the kit, all of the parts and pieces.

The nib cost to the original source of the kit is less than $0.25. There is no reason to pay $60 for it. All we need is one of the major suppliers of pen kits in the US to contact their source of kits and ask for a coffee mug full of nibs. There should be no reason that one nib would sell for more than $2.

 

[PenWorks]

Thanks, Mac, you made me try something last night. Take a close look at this pen, rather NIB. (but the pen did come out nice for just a quikie thought). Notice it is a steel Conklin nib. writes pretty good, for just the little test I did from last night. So here is your custom steel nib pen.

I can get all the custom steel nibs you want for .75 cents (nib only)
Problem.......To have the stamping die made for the nib , about 800.00
Quanity needed to place the order, 5,000 per writing grade (about 4K)
If you want the matching feeder, nib & feeder & housing assembled for you, add 5.00 to that. The feeder & housing actually cost more than the steel nib,

The gold nib I have coming, will now fit the Ligero as well, you have Mac to thank for that one [] I will try the conversion for the El Grande this weekend.

Mac, why do you want a coffee cup full of the same nibs we allready can get from the kit suppliers? I thought we wanted to improve on this.

One of the biggest trade shows for pen suppliers (pens, parts, kits) is in Hong Kong in October, that's the place to be. But unless you don't plan on ordering 1000's, don't bother going.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Anthony, As usual the pen is beautiful. I really admire your workmanship.

Years ago you could go into any Rexall Drug Store and somewhere on the counter was a display of pen nibs. You could hook your thumb nail on the little ball on the end of the nib of the pen in your pocket and pull the nib out. Choose another style, or width of line and slide it in, pay $0.50 or less and walk out the door with your pen and a new nib in it.

Fast forward to today. You now buy a fountain pen kit. You make the pen and find a customer. The customer says, "Gee Wiz, this has a medium point on it and I want a fine point." You hook your thumbnail on the little knob on the point of the pen and pull the nib out. Then you stand there with a dumb look on your face cause you can't slide a fine point nib back in.

You can tell your customer to go to one of the neat web sites that you can find on the net and pay $50-$150 for a nib and then have the person selling you that nib custom fit it to your $50 hand made pen for another $35.

I am sure that you won't sell that pen to the customer when he does a little math that tells him that a $50 pen will cost him as much as $240 plus postage both ways to get it to write a fine line.

Craft Supplies has nib holder/ink feed sections with nibs in them for $4.50. The nib part of that assembly likely is around 20% of the value.

All I want to do is:

If I drop the end of the pen when assembling it, be able to replace the nib.

If I want to sell a fine line instead of a medium line or a broad line nib to be able to change the nib.

A fountain pen nut will pay big bucks for a solid gold or antique nib. Your normal customer that will walk by a pen display won't. But I you could accommodate that customer for a reasonable price you may be able to sell another pen.

Right now my only choice is to pay $4.50 for a nib holder and pull the nib out and toss it. Or to buy a second pen kit pull the nib out of it and toss the rest of the kit in the parts box. Both options are not reasonable for a $1.00 item.

 

[PenWorks]

Mac, it all comes down to numbers. If I had an extra 15K to order steel nibs in three writing grades, I could sell them to you all day long for .75-1.00 and even make a dime.
But I would end up holding an extra 14,900 nibs I couldn't get rid off. [B)]

I stock all the writing grades CSU has, for the money 4.50 and having the option to buy just one and the ability to just screw out the old and screw in the new, their price is right. I do not charge my client any extra to swap the nib out. In fact, they ussually will take the medium nib that comes with the pen and I sell them an extra nib with a converter so for only 12.00 nib - 5.00 for the converter, 17.00 the have an extra pen!

The steel nibs you spoke of above, went away with Rexall [] I haven't heard or seen a Rexall store for years.

 

[DCBluesman]

I think $.50 nibs have gone the way of penny candy. []

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

And to continue the stroll down memory lane.

Easterbrook had a pen called the Model J. With it you could grasp the nib and feed assembly section between two fingers and unscrew it. It came right out of your fountain pen. You could go to their nib display and choose among 33 different nib styles that would fit your pen. You chose the one you wanted and screwed it into the feed assembly holder and you had another style of pen or replaced the one that you dropped point first on the floor.

Thirty three different nibs and you could change to any one of them in about 20 seconds. I have one of those pens in my pocket right now. It has the Style 1551 nib in it, called the "Student" grade. There were accountant, italic, music broad, extra extra fine, casual writing, formal writing, flexible, extra flexible nibs and so on.

The pen was not expensive and still isn't expensive if you look around. You can still get the nib/feed assemblies on ebay. I don't know exactly when they quit making them but I suspect in the late 1950's or so.

 

[RussFairfield]

This is a topic near to my heart, but I have some philosophical differences of opinion on the topic of fountain pens, their nibs, and the use of gold vs. steel as the material to make them. I see a greater challenge than just finding a better nib to put in the pens that we are already making.

Everyone is looking for a gold nib to put into a "Kit Pen". The problem is that it is still a pen that was made from a kit, and it is easily recognized as a "kit pen" by anyone knowledgable in fountain pens. The only thing that separates one "kit" pen from another is the craftsmanship, the plating, and the wood or other material that was used for making the barrel. Other than that, they are all the same.

The nibs that are available from our suppliers are a good quality steel nib for a good quality "kit" pen that sells in the $75 price range. We are competing with a Waterman that I can buy at Office Depot for about $35. The writing quality is almost the same. Adding a gold nib will not make either of them into something they are not.

There is another problem. Most of the buying public have never used a fountain pen, and they find that writing with one can be a challenge. Adding the gold nib does nothing to make learning to use a fountain pen an easier task.

Here is the problem. The market for the gold nib are those folks who have experience with and know how to use a fountain pen. These people who are willing to pay the price for a good quality gold nib also want and expect something more than a pen that was made from a kit. Adding the gold nib will not make the "kit" pen into a $250 pen, regardless of how much we paid for the nib.

Bottom line. Putting a gold nib in a "kit" pen is like putting racing stripes on a Chevette and trying to make everyone think it is a Corvette. It doesn't work. A pen with a gold nib has to look like a pen that has a a gold nib. It has to be something special, and that means it has to be something unique that distinguishes it from the "kit pen" that sells for $75.

Once we accept that the custom pen with the "gold nib" is something special, we will have to start making pens that do not have the apearance of a kit. The next logical step is making our own parts. Once we get to that point in our pen making there are no restrictions on the sources for nibs and reservoirs that we can use. It also removes the upper limit that we can charge for our creations.

That is how I see the custom pen and gold nibs.
Feel free to disagree.

 

[btboone]

I agree with your sentiments Russ. I brought my two titanium pens to the Atlanta Pen Show to get feedback from the people that live this stuff, and every one of them said, almost in unison, that my nib NEEDED to be a gold nib instead of the kit pen nib I had for the prototype. They didn't bother to try it out or look very closely at it; they just stated what the customer would expect. Whether or not it actually makes a difference, they certainly drove home the fact that there's an implied difference in customer perception. There is certainly some anti "kit" bias amongst the show folks, and from the sounds of it, from their customers as well.

They've psyched me into trying to think so far outside the box on designs that I'm shooting myself in the foot because the designs are so complex that I don't have time to make them. I wonder if I should be trying to do "normal" pens and actually sell a few or continue to try for strange high end ones and try to find time to work out the designs.

 

[Old Griz]

I have to agree with Russ on this... putting a $50+ nib on a $12.50 kit is not going to make it a custom pen.. it is just going to be a kit pen with an expensive nib...
Will it write better?? Maybe to someone who really knows and uses fountain pens a lot... but in all probability the person who is not a fountain pen junkie will probably not know the difference...
Tony has been doing some absolutely fantastic things with parts from kits to create truly one of a kid custom fountain pens... putting a gold nib in this type of work is right and good. The market he is aiming at is the person who truly loves a fountain pen and can appreciate the custom quality of the work..
Personally, I have never written with a fountain pen with a high quality gold nib, so I probably would not see a whole lot of difference right now... maybe later on when I get to Tony's level of expertise in customizing pens and use a FP all day instead of occassionally I will appreciate it...
But I know that the vast majority of my clients would not know the difference... even if I told them and allowed them to try one against the other..

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Thank you Russ, well said.

Boone, why not both? Time, I know!

All that is said so far still doesn't resolve why we can't purchase the dang nibs that are furnished with the pen kits we all use. That is all I want to do, purchase the same nib that comes with the kit. The nib by it's self, fine, medium and broad. I just want a little variety to be able to offer with the pens and a way to repair one should the nib get damaged. They are cheap steel nibs, the look nice, for the pen we are making and selling they are correct. Why the heck can't the kit suppliers get some from their sources and offer them? Nils?

 

[btboone]

Yup, time's the main thing, but I also need to consider what my niche might be. Is it $1500 collector pens that most people can't machine or $75 pens that are easy to do? I can probably do one or the other, but doing both side by side probably won't work.

One of the catalog offers the nibs for El Grande. Maybe it's Berea?

 

[JimGo]

Bruce, you could always do your "normal" pens under a pseudonym, or a "down-line" brand, this way people don't get confused. You can use those to help finance the development of the other pens.

 

[btboone]

That may be a good option Jim. It would be very hard to get the quality and reputation up to the point needed to sell the high end pens, and I wouldn't want people to do price or feature comparisons with the easier "kit" pens.

 

[wdcav1952]

Originally posted by btboone
<br />Yup, time's the main thing, but I also need to consider what my niche might be. Is it $1500 collector pens that most people can't machine or $75 pens that are easy to do? I can probably do one or the other, but doing both side by side probably won't work.

One of the catalog offers the nibs for El Grande. Maybe it's Berea?

Bruce, it is Berea. Beartoothwoods.com is one of their resellers. Ernie has always done well by me, and he does offer the different size nibs for the El Grande. I know that this is not what the original post asked for, but it does give the flexibility for changing nibs. With the El Grande, I will occasionally buy roller ball kits and purchase a few fountain pen nibs to give me some flexibility with respect to what the buyer may want.

BTW Bruce, go with the $1500 market. At that, some of the work you have produced it likely underpriced.

 

[woodscavenger]

Bruce, good to see you back. I wondered where you went. After your comment about complex designs it made sense. I'll bet you have so many cool CAD drawings cooking that you can hardly sleep.[]
Does anyone know for sure if the Craft USA nibs fit in the Baron?

 

[PenWorks]

Shane, the CS Jr type nibs will fit the Baron. You can buy the other writing grades from CS, unscrew the housing cover, the part that is plated and put it on the other CS nib to make it match. I like using the Baron nibs on the Statesmen Jr pen, because I think the two tone nib on the Baron is sharp looking.

Russ is right, but it still doesn't change the fact, that any time you can improve on the kit pen, you have a better product. A Statesmen is not your typical 12.00 kit. It does make a very nice formable pen when done right. Now turners who make and sell this pen get from 95 to 125 for this pen. Investing 50-75 for a gold nib, puts this pen in the 250.00 range. Compared to other pen companies offerings in this price range, I think for 250.00 we are putting out a product that more than competes with them, if not passing them by.

 

[DCBluesman]

Between Tony and Russ, I believe they are pointing us on the right path. Component (kit) pens will always have their detractors... regardless of the nibs... regardless of the barrel material... regardless of the workmanship. The trick here is to recognize that we still have a product that is perceived as having excellent value when executed properly. In all likelihood I will try a few gold nibs on some customized component kits, but I think my market will still be (in order) ballpoints and rollerballs followed by fountain pens. I will let folks know that a quality steel nib is still an excellent device for applying ink to paper and I will encourage them to "try, then compare". Dollar for dollar, we can hold our own.

In taking this back to the original intent of the thread, I ordered replacement nibs from CSUSA and some Lamy pens (through Tony). I wrote with all of these different nibs for over an hour this morning. The quality of the Lamy steel nib is slightly better than the Baron nib or the CSUSA nibs, but all of the nibs did extremely well for me...and I most often use gold-nibbed fountain pens. I can ajust and adapt the Lamy and the CSUSA nib holder/nib combinations to give me plenty of different feels to the fountain pen. All it takes now is the imagination to adapt these additional components to create new designs that move away from the traditional "kit" look.

 

[woodscavenger]

Lou has nailed it. I think the comments about our cheap kits being the downfall may be a little overstated. Why? Many of the people shooting for that higher market are not just taking a Baron kit, turning bushing to bushing, throwing on a couple of coats of friction polish and calling it good. We have some people doing some amazing work. Most of the pens appear to be headed to the desk jockeys which means the clip can come off (i.e. losing another "cheap trim part") and all that a cusomter really sees is the pen blank material (wood or otherwise), the writing nib, and the threads. Everything else is gone in most of the closed end pens that a lot of guys seem to be doing. I think if you nail the nib/nib holder and you have smooth feeling threads your good to go.

 

[ed4copies]

Great thread, lots of you obviously know about nibs.

Can you tell me, then, if there is a compatibility chart (or if one of you can make one up). I can't believe kit pens use a completely different threading system from everyone else. If I unscrew the nib assembly from a Gentlemen's pen, I have the nib and some plastic in my hand (call it whatever is appropriate). Is the dimension and thread on this plastic piece the same as Schaeffer, Lamy, Mont Blanc, or anything else? I don't have to have this assembly with me, but if I can tell the customer, yes YOU can replace this nib assy, easily, with a nib you buy off E-Bay, here is the compatible, I will sell more pens. Not many more, but there are collectors who know exactly what type of nib (18kt gold is popular) they want. They will, I believe, be willing to go buy their own.

I have been successful in selling the concept that my pen body is hand-made (All those high-end companies have to make at least HUNDREDS of one design, I may make 50-which product is more exclusive to own?)

I differ with the Chevette analogy, I prefer to think of and refer to my pens as the Excalibur-each one hand made. If you as a customer would feel better giving me a thousand dollars for it, I will graciously accept. Because I have no advertising (as the high-end pens do), nor do I have import tariffs, nor distributors, nor retailers-I am ABLE to sell high quality for less-and I prefer to give you an unbelievable pen BODY. As for pen nibs-because of the high number needed for economical production quantity-buy them from a nib expert!

One other aside on cost of gold (one of the postings refered to cost of gold on the "spot market"). We have all our stained glass items gold plated after they are produced. The cost of this process for a 4" suncatcher is a couple dollars. This is 24kt "pure" gold. Barrel plating a nib should cost CENTS, not dollars. Would a gold-plated steel nib be useful?

Once again, I am NOT a fountain pen user, so sorry I am so ill-informed. I hope to learn from all of you and thank-you for taking the time to read this. [][]

 

[driften]

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />
One other aside on cost of gold (one of the postings refered to cost of gold on the "spot market"). We have all our stained glass items gold plated after they are produced. The cost of this process for a 4" suncatcher is a couple dollars. This is 24kt "pure" gold. Barrel plating a nib should cost CENTS, not dollars. Would a gold-plated steel nib be useful?

What people are talking about is not gold plated steel nibs but nibs made from solid gold. That is why the "spot" price matters.

 

[PenWorks]

Ed, there is no compatibility chart, and if one was made up, it would be a real short list, maybe 4 pens might be on it from the kits we buy.

Same with major pen manufactures, there is no interchanging between parts, they all have there propietery sytems. Some even design the feed to take only their cartridges and converters so you have to buy THEIR refills. [xx(]

 

[driften]

I also like the idea of having an adapter so that we can thread in other companies production nibs. That gives the buyer the ability to use any nib from that company. The problem there is so many manufactures that don't use cartridges and it could be hard to build piston (or other) fill versions of our pens. It would be cool though to be able to support Pelikan nibs (or something like them) that go from vintage to modern with the same threads. Many modern companies do use cartidges (and converters) so that would be the place to start.

 

[ed4copies]

Jeff,

Racine, WI used to be a hub of activity for metal jobs. Now, the numbers are down greatly. However, if you nib guys can determine which one to five manufacturers make the nicest selection of nib assys, your idea sounds like a winner.

I would be happy to do some research on having an adapter made. Most of the shops are "job shops" now, many specialize in prototyping. Give me direction on the optimum result and I will go to work on run length, pricing and general feasibility. It sounds like an interesting project.

 

[RussFairfield]

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />
I can't believe kit pens use a completely different threading system from everyone else. If I unscrew the nib assembly from a Gentlemen's pen, I have the nib and some plastic in my hand (call it whatever is appropriate).

Whether by accident or design, you are holding a nib assembly that is unique and unlike any other in the world. The issue here is "Direct Replacement", unscrew one and screw in another. There have been several people looking for several years, and nobody has found one, the manufacturers have not been willing to make one, and I doubt that there are very many kit makers who would be willing to buy them.

There are two issues that make a direct replacement possible. One is the threads. The other is the reservoir or cartridge. Both must be the same for them to be interchangeable. There are several nib assemblies available with the same threads, Pelikan as an example, but they all use a different reservoir assembly that will not fit into the kit pen. There are also commercial pens that use the same universal reservoir and cartridge as the kits, but they all use a different thread. There would also be several nib options if the kit pen used a bladder and lever reservoir.

There are several solutions to providing a gold nib on a kit pen if we are able and willing to either modify the nib to fit the kit, or modify the kit to fit the nib. All of the discussions on these forums have been around making a nib that fits the kit, and having someone else provide that that for us.

The other solution is to modify the kit to fit the nib and reservoir. I have been doing that by machining a new fitting for the end of pen barrel with threads that will accomodate the upgrade nib that I have selected. I have adopted a pen style that makes this an easy modification, and with the addition of a custom clip there is no visible resemblance to a kit pen.

There are also many different reasons for wanting to fit a better nib into a kit pen. I have made a personal choice to provide a pen for a customer who is willing to buy a unique pen at a price that allows me to make them at a profit. And, that is getting me into making a pen whose only resemblance to the kit is that it uses brass tubes inside of turned wood barrels.

There is nothing wrong with making a kit pen that is of superior quality, whether it be with a stock steel nib or a custom gold one. But, we shouldn't forget that the superior quality of fit and finish has to come before using the gold nib.

 

[Efletche]

I don't know if this is helpful to anyone, but this site is offering 25 Vintage Nibs Assortment for $19.95 US. The link is:
http://hans.presto.tripod.com/store/nibs0001.html
Hope it is helpful.

 

[ed4copies]

Russ
I agree with your position-here is my "dilemma".

Two shows lately, different collectors have seen my Statesman pen with gold-love it, etc. But they are fountain pen collectors. THEY have preferences for 18kt nib.

Both have said, $200 is fair for the pen (stabilized water buffalo, all black, no marks), they will happily buy their own nib (they feel the pen is worth over $500, so the nib added to $200 is still OK). NOW, I want to give them a good answer. I have always had difficulty with "It's Impossible!" I CAN accept, "It's really, really hard!!" And, carrying your answer with me in a print-out WILL help.

Thanks!!

 

[Rifleman1776]

This is digressing off-topic a bit. But following this thread is on one hand interesting, but on the other hand depressing. You guys are talking about meeting the $250.00 to $1500.00 market while other, me for one, are still trying to find a way to sell $20.00 pens to our local market. In the store that has my display, folks "Ooh-Aah!" over the beauty of the pens, then go buy Bics at Wal-Mart. Oh, well.

 

[RussFairfield]

I understand your problem. I was asked the same question several years ago, and I had no answer. Now I am getting closer, and the only difference is in how we chose to find the answer. I have chosen to make a pen with the 18k gold nib, put the $500 price tag on it, and offer no options.

It was also my choice to make a pen that didn't look like it started its life as a kit. There is never any doubt that this is a custom pen. The words "kit pen" are never any part of the conversation with a potential buyer.

 

[ed4copies]

Frank,

The craft (Art) show market is very diverse. I see thousands of mid-aged women to every pen collector. But, when that chance comes along, I'd like to be knowledgeable. The expertise on this forum seems like a great way to get there from here.

I certainly don't know ANYTHING about your marketing-but I can tell you I would wait much longer for prospects if I stayed in Wisconsin, that's why I am willing to pay a ton to do shows in Chicago (see today's post in marketing for this weeks sad story). So, I am trying to move upscale. I have sold maybe 4 pens in excess of $100 and ALL of them have been as a result of knowledge gained here put to work at shows, in the last 2 months. Before that, I also never sold a pen over $50.

Thank-you to everyone who has helped me hone my skills, both selling and pen-creating!

This does NOT mean I know what YOU should do, only meant to relay information on how MY sales have changed.

 

[driften]

Rich, I for one would be happy to make the pen around the nib. I feel the less "kit" like our product is and the more "useable art" the better. It is a diffrent market then kits market but its one I want to enter some day.

Your cartridge based Bexley should make some nice pens. What do you have to do to thread those nibs into the pen bodies you make? What size pen work it work with? Does it work on a body the size of a Baron or does it need to be a larger size of pen?

 

[PenWorks]

Frank, it's just like your gorgous fiddleback long gun stock. How many folks are going to spend 500-1,500 for a rifle stock? There isn't a huge market out there, but it is still there. As far as your pens in the store...pens don't allways sell themselves, they have to be SOLD. []

 

[Rifleman1776]

Ed, Anthony
I understand your perspective. And I know life has it's trade-offs. By choice I left the Chicago area in 1970 when money-making opportunities were falling in my lap (fashion photog for Women's Wear Daily, marketing and promotion manager for Chicago Bulls, etc.) for a life in the Ozarks where some folks were still earning only $3.00 a day (not hour, day). We are in different markets. I may start doing some of the craft show circuit but only after I determine that, after expenses, a profit will be turned. We all make choices. Money didn't keep me in Chi Town and it will never lure me back. Choices have consequences. Not being able to sell $20.00 pens may be one of them. I have local friends who gave up pen making and other wood working crafts for that same reason. I'm sure most here would recognize a couple names if I posted. That's life.