My CA Method

[Fangar]

I have received quite a few emails regarding the method I use for my CA finish. Firts off I must say that I am flattered. The method I use is likely what many other people are already doing, but I thought I would post it here since I typed it out in a couple of emails already.

My method in nut shell is as follows:

-1800 RPM-

Sand with 240, 320, 400 Grit papers.

Wipe down with denatured alcohol (DNA)

Apply a thin sealer coat of Thin CA with 400 grit paper.

New sheet of 400 grit smooth out.

Wipe down with DNA.

MM through 12000 (DNA as needed between coats to remove sanding debris. Usually between each three of the MM.)

Two coats of Myland's cellulose sanding sealer.

MM last four grits through 12000 again.

DNA

-Slow lathe to 500 Rpm. ( or Slowest setting).-

Apply two coats thin CA with Costco Paper Shop towel.
Air dry only betweencoats (NO ACCELERATOR).

Apply Two Coats of Thick CA, as smoothly as possible.
Air dry betweencoats. (If you do need to use a light application of
ACC, I wait at least 1 minute after each CA application, and only
use the Aerosol from a distance. I don't have any issues with cloudiness
or bubbles this way. The pump ACC does not work for me)

-Speed lathe back up to 1800 RPM.-

Sand with 320 Grit(Sometimes 240 grit if I went crazy) to remove any ridges, swirls etc.

Sand with 400 grit.

DNA

MM through 12000.

DNA

Buffing wheel with White Diamond only.

Hut Plastic Polish applied with paper shop towel.

TSW.

It seems like a ton of work, but really takes about 20 minutes from start to finish. Each grit of paper and MM is a very quick, light sand letting the papers do the work. There is not a ton of time on each grit, though I do make sure I have removed the sanding lines etc. I have worked on this method for quite a while, and it really works the best as far as results for me.

Some people will say that there are overlapping grits or stepping back at times, but it works for me. Maybe more of a ritual like a baseball player that goes through his nervous supersticious dance prior to each pitch!

Cheers,

Fangar

 

[pete00]

thanks for taking the time to post it Fangar.

pete

 

[wudwrkr]

Fangar. Thanks for the detailed description. I'm just waiting on my order of CA to start trying this.

One question: How do you apply your sanding sealer? Is it still with the lathe at 1800rmp? Do you use a piece of shop towel?

Thanks again. By the way, your pens are great and the finish looks perfect! [8D] I especially like the thuya burl.

 

[Borg_B_Borg]

I don't have the exact grit and mesh size info in front of me, but it is my understanding that 12000 MM is finer than both white diamond and Hut Plastic Polish(HPP). In fact HPP contains a range of mesh sizes, with some possibly finer but also definitely some coarser abrasives in it than 12000 MM. Using HPP after 12000 MM will be going backwards. If you think you're getting a higher shine over 12000MM after using HPP, it's because HPP has some oily/waxy shine enhancers in it, but it will leave a rougher underlying scratch pattern than 12000MM alone.

Now, if only I could take such pretty pictures with my pens ...

Steve

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by Borg_B_Borg
<br />I don't have the exact grit and mess size info in front of me, but it is my understanding that 12000 MM is finer than both white diamond and Hut Plastic Polish(HPP). In fact HPP contains a range of mesh sizes, with some possibly finer but also definitely some coarser abrasives in it than 12000 MM. Using HPP after 12000 MM will be going backwards. If you think you're getting a higher shine over 12000MM after using HPP, it's because HPP has some oily/waxy shine enhancers in it, but it will leave a rougher underlying scratch pattern than 12000MM alone.

Steve

<b>

Originally posted by Fangar
...Some people will say that there are overlapping grits or stepping back at times, but it works for me. Maybe more of a ritual like a baseball player that goes through his nervous supersticious dance prior to each pitch!...

</b>

I agree... []

Fangar

 

[pete00]

thank you steve....i didnt know that either......pete

 

[JimGo]

James,
You certainly can't argue with the results! I have been stopping somewhere around your "speed the lathe back up" step, and I'll be curious to see whether the added steps you mention make a big difference.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by Fangar
<br />.....Apply a thin sealer coat of Thin CA with 400 grit paper.

New sheet of 400 grit smooth out.

Wipe down with DNA.

MM through 12000 (DNA as needed between coats to remove sanding debris. Usually between each three of the MM.)

Two coats of Myland's cellulose sanding sealer.....

James: I'm interested in the logic behind the above portion of your process.

Why do you apply 2 additional coats of the Mylands? Is it because you feel you have sanded off some or all of the original coat of CA sealer?? If so, why not just use more of the thin CA instead of the Mylands or if you like the Mylands, why not just start off with it rather than using the thin CA?

I've never used a CA finish and the only thing I know about it is what I have read so I'm not implying that there is anything wrong with your method. Just trying to understand how you came to this particular procedure. Thanks.

 

[thetalbott4]

That is long list of items to do, but I'd do it twice per pen if they all came out like Fangs. Man, thats a shine![8D] Thanks for the info. I'm copying it down and pinning to the shop wall to try out.

 

[wdcav1952]

Fanger,

Nice post, great pens. Pretty good combination I would say.

 

[Fangar]

Randy,

Since I apply the Thin CA at 1800 rpm with the 400 grit paper, it is pretty much a sanding sealer that fills in most of the small nicks or dings that are usually present in the burls I like. Also, larger grains like cross cut Zebra etc, benefit from this. Once I sand with the 400 after the thin CA application , the top layer is mostly (if not all) removed leaving CA in the voids or dents if you will only. Then I use the myland's.

Cheers,

Fangar

 

[GregMuller]

Fanger,
Are you useing a piece of 400 grit paper to apply the ca or just to sand it afterward. If you do use the sand paper to apply just woundering why sandpaper to apply.

 

[jimbo 31751]

James, thanks for the info.


Jim

 

[fuzzydog]

What is TSW mean? Beautiful pics and can't wait to try your method.

 

[alamocdc]

Originally posted by fuzzydog
<br />What is TSW mean? Beautiful pics and can't wait to try your method.

TSW = Trade Secret for Wood. You can get it at AS and a number of other places.

Thanks, James! I don't use the CA finish much anymore, but I'll have to give this a try next time I need it.

 

[Skye]

Originally posted by GregMuller
<br />Fanger,
Are you useing a piece of 400 grit paper to apply the ca or just to sand it afterward. If you do use the sand paper to apply just woundering why sandpaper to apply.

"Apply a thin sealer coat of Thin CA with 400 grit paper."

I think (and I'm new at this) that it's to rough up the surface while laying the first coat of CA. That throws the CA in a bunch of tiny grooves, helping it to bind. Just my guess.

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by GregMuller
<br />Fanger,
Are you useing a piece of 400 grit paper to apply the ca or just to sand it afterward. If you do use the sand paper to apply just woundering why sandpaper to apply.

Greg,

I apply the thin sanding coat of CA with the sandpaper and also sand with a fresh sheet after that. By using the sandpaper to apply it, you creat sort of a sanding slury that fills any small voids with not only CA, but very fine wood particles. I use it to level the surface a little faster which helps to achieve the flat level glossy surface.

Cheers,

Fangar

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by Fangar
<br />Randy,

Since I apply the Thin CA at 1800 rpm with the 400 grit paper, it is pretty much a sanding sealer that fills in most of the small nicks or dings that are usually present in the burls I like. Also, larger grains like cross cut Zebra etc, benefit from this. Once I sand with the 400 after the thin CA application , the top layer is mostly (if not all) removed leaving CA in the voids or dents if you will only. Then I use the myland's.

Thanks, James. That makes sense to me!!

 

[guts]

James,i tried it,i like it and will continue to use it,nice and easy and looks good,thanks for the info.

 

[HeatherA]

Is there something that you can get at the box stores that can be used instead of the Mylands? They don't like to ship that kind of stuff to Alaska.

Thanks,
Heather

 

[BillATsetelDOTcom]

Lowes carries a Minwax sanding sealer - I was going to pick some of that up. I am not sure if it will give the same results or no.

On another note - Fanger, I have used your method on my past three pens (first time every doing a CA finish) the pens have turned out AMAZING. I will be posting pics soon.

Bill

 

[clowman]

Fangar.. Just wondering. If you don't have a buffing wheel, could that be replaced with MM through 12k?

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by HeatherA
<br />Is there something that you can get at the box stores that can be used instead of the Mylands? They don't like to ship that kind of stuff to Alaska.

Thanks,
Heather

Heather,

Try the method without the sanding sealer. When you get to that step, just omit it. I have accidentally forgot it in the past and still finished with good results. Try it without, and then if your are not happy, look into another type of sanding sealer you might be able to get locally.

Fangar

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by clowman
<br />Fangar.. Just wondering. If you don't have a buffing wheel, could that be replaced with MM through 12k?

If you switch to the MM in place of the buffing wheels, you would be using the MM twice in a row. If I was going to drop the wheels out of the loop, I would likely switch to the MM at a lower speed and possibly wet sand with the MM. On the other hand, you can get a single wheel mandrel for your lathe for cheap. You only need one for my technique. I made my set for under 15 bucks with two wheels.

Fangar

 

[wudwrkr]

Heather,
I've used the minwax sanding sealer with no problems. I wouldn't eliminate that step from the porous woods. I have found that the sanding sealer really helps the finish. You could also use thin CA as a sanding sealer. Use 400 grit to build up some dust and apply the thin CA to the sandpaper with the lathe running at slow speed. It doesn't take much.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by clowman
<br />Fangar.. Just wondering. If you don't have a buffing wheel, could that be replaced with MM through 12k?

Clowman: You can make a buffing system, that will run on your lathe, out of a $10 paint roller and a few pieces of scrap from your wood pile or Bruce can sell you a set of his custom made units for about $20 bucks, I think?? You can also put together a Beall clone for not too much money. Check the classified. I think there is a current add for a mandrel or, if you are handy, you can make one of your own.


Here is the link: http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11971

 

[BillATsetelDOTcom]

For the record - yesterday when I did Fangar's finish - I ommited the sanding sealer step AND the buffing step and the results are great.

Again, when I get these pens done, I'll be posting pics.

Bill

 

[Texas Taco]

Fangar.........one additional question or three, I know this has been answered by others and probably you have too, how do you separate the blanks fron the bushings? I've read others that have turned the CA off the bushings and I read where some just wax up the bushings with a thick coat and just snap the blank off the bushing. Ruining a blank because of it being stuck to the bushing is making me question if I want to try this but looking at your pens it is something I want to try.

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by Hemibee
<br />Fangar.........one additional question or three, I know this has been answered by others and probably you have too, how do you separate the blanks fron the bushings? I've read others that have turned the CA off the bushings and I read where some just wax up the bushings with a thick coat and just snap the blank off the bushing. Ruining a blank because of it being stuck to the bushing is making me question if I want to try this but looking at your pens it is something I want to try.

Great question, and one that I am suprised has not been raised yet. Ac couple of things can be done. If turning a kit with 7mm or 8mm tubes tubes (Euro, Slimline, Streamline, Flatop, elegant american etc) I simply remove the bushings. I use cut 7mm (or 8mm tubes for the B Mandrel) as spacers and have at it. Then any over flow of CA can be gently cleaned up around the mating surfaces using a pen mill by hand.

If the kits use larger tubes where the bushngs insert into the tubes (Baron, Gents, States, Etc) There are several techniques. Waxing helps. I have done that from time to time. Also, a spacer washer made out of nylon cutting board material (As suggested by my friend Eagle). The CA does not like to stick to the bread board. Even without the different techniques, the best method is to check for bushing stick between each application of CA. If you gor from two coats of thin through your two coats of thick, the CA will be very thick at the bushings, and will likely cause a crack under the edge...BAD! Finally, a sharp skew chisel used on the joint of the bushings. DO THIS BY HAND! Don't turn the lathe on. Just run the hand wheel with your free hand with the sharp edge in place. Also a very sharp razor blade will work (I have used a box cutter) with the lathe turned by hand (Away from you).

Mostly, I just check for stick in between each coat, and trim any excess (If excessive) between coats. Not too much of a problem.

Let us know of any techniques that you come up with.

Cheers,

Fangar

 

[Texas Taco]

A box cutter, I like that. Now I'm going to have to try it.

 

[Lioncourt]

Has anyone tried this method of finishing on larger items? I'm curious how it would work on something like a small box or mallet? Would there be drying issues? I just love the shine and have yet to try it(still waiting for supplies) bu i have a few larger items i wouldn't mind protecting a bit better.

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by Lioncourt
<br />Has anyone tried this method of finishing on larger items? I'm curious how it would work on something like a small box or mallet? Would there be drying issues? I just love the shine and have yet to try it(still waiting for supplies) bu i have a few larger items i wouldn't mind protecting a bit better.

Usually, for larger items, I use spray lacquer for that gloss. It can be done. I have used this method on several bottle stoppers with good results. However, I find that the main reason I like it is the durability factor as a pen is usually handled a bit more than a box. A mallet would not be the best option if it was to be used as the CA when dry is a plastic. Any impact like that of a mallet would likely cause cracks. It would be fine for a display gavel that wasn't really going to be used. I use lacquer for my flat work too.

The pens are CA, the base and clock stand are Deft Spray lacquer.

Fangar

 

[TomServo]

Fangar, I just can't help but admire that desk set whenever I see it - fantastic figure there and nicely matched. I don't have any sanding sealer, so I'll try with my thin CA, one last time with CA finish :/ I still have a bottle of medium CA I can't use for anything (it turns white after 2 seconds no matter how little I apply)

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by TomServo<br />.....I still have a bottle of medium CA I can't use for anything (it turns white after 2 seconds no matter how little I apply)

Hey Tom: I imagine it still makes a pretty good glue??[]

 

[jdavis]

thanks great pen

 

[Lioncourt]

I just tried the method on 2 pens, the first came out pretty nice. The second isn't bad but i had a few issues. First the pen started to split due to non stabilized wood...any thought on if the method should be ammended for this issue? Also the pen turned up having a few dull spots even after polishing. they occured mostly around the cracks. What could cause this? I had one other issue of the finish pulling up a little when i seperated the bushing with a knife. guess i just have to be more gentle(thought the glue would bond a bit better?)

 

[Lioncourt]

So noone has had this "dull area" issue? I just tried it again with the same wood(austrailian vasticola burl) and got the same effect. I thout at first it might be an issue with the ca not being cured enough or oil from my hands so this one i let the ca cure 8 hours and made sure to not touch the wood. it was looking great then i put on the TSW, let it haze then "buffed" it with a soft rag while it was still on the lathe. All I can figure is some issue with the TSW maybe? Should i wait a while after buffing before handling? The only thing that rebuffs this theory is that the issue still occurs around areas in the wood that displayed small cracks before finishing. Please help if you can I can't seem to figure it out and it's such a pretty wood.

 

[Fangar]

Lioncourt,

Are you using Accelerator?

If you ever get a crack or raised spot where it seems to bubble under the end when removing it from your bushings, simply turn the blank on end, Bubble side up. Then use thin CA to carefully backfill behind the finish. The thin CA will wick into the spot and the end issue will vanish.

Cheers,

Fangar

 

[Lioncourt]

I'm not using acc. and that sounds like a great way to fix the bubble but still nothing on dull unpolishable spots?

 

[Fangar]

It is likely an issue with the DNA. Some woods seem to not like the DNA. Most likely there are still some damp spots when you switch to the CA. On the burl you are using, chisel all of the CA off and then use a blow gun to remove the dust and dirt instead of CA.

This time of year, my CA finishes are definately harder to work with. My shop is only around 58 degrees until I turn on my small floor heaters. It never really gets up too high. CA likes to act in warmer temperatures. Still, with patience they seem to come out.

I am guessing that the dull spots are under the finish. Most likey that, or they are areas where you have sanded through the CA and are seeing the less shiniy dull spots of the wood.

Fangar