Looking to upgrade lathe

[Bigolac]

Hi guys - I recently got into pen turning and lathe work in the last couple months and have been having a blast. I got a used Central Machinery 8x12 on the cheap and have made around 20-30 pens as well as some other small turnings (tops, chess pieces, etc.).

Nothing wrong with the machine - it's been working great and will continue to do so, but I'd like to expand my horizons and get a lathe with a little more power and capacity, and have been looking at a few:

Nova Comet 14dr

Grizzly T25920

Central Machinery 12x34

I'm sure there are many other choices, but I would prefer a smaller lathe that will still fit on my workspace and be useable. Seems like the Nova would be the way to go, but it's a little above my comfort level of discretionary spending....

Anyone have any advice/ideas? I'd appreciate it.

Also don't mind buying used, but finding a nice used lathe in Wisconsin is rarer than hen's teeth.....

 

[SmokingWoodsman]

I have the Nova 14DR with a bed extension and absolutely love it, I upgraded from a Rikon 70-105. It was definitely worth the expense.

 

[sorcerertd]

My father has the Nova and likes it. I've used it and it is pretty nice. His only complaint is that the switch overheats, which apparently is not uncommon. Hopefully the newer models have better switches, or maybe better sealed, but it might be something you should research a little. Otherwise it is likely the best bang for the buck.

I have an old Jet 1014 that I bought used. I want a larger one, but am holding out and saving up unless a good used one pops up in the right place at the right time.

 

[monophoto]

Adam

My suggestion is to start by writing down a list of the features that you would want on a new lathe. Then, note how well each of the lathes that you are looking at matches that list. That approach will help you narrow your focus down to the machine that is right for you.

When I went through that process, some of the features I wanted include swing, bed length, MT size, motor horsepower, variable speed, the ability to turn in reverse for sanding, and the dimension between the feet (a must for me was to be able to mount the new lathe on an existing bench - I didn't have shop space for anything larger), weight and, of course, price. It turned out that the foot dimension was a critical factor, and I had to sacrifice reverse operation (out of the box - I was able to retrofit something later).

Don't underestimate motor horsepower. As you move to a larger lathe, especially one with greater swing. you will broaden your interest to include bowls as well as items that required drilling. In either case, horsepower will be critical to have the torque needed to do the work.

Final thought - don't overlook brands like Rikon, Turncrafter, Laguna and Jet - they also offer very good machines in the price range you are looking at.

 

[ed4copies]

Are you anywhere near Racine?

 

[MedWoodWorx]

Adam

My suggestion is to start by writing down a list of the features that you would want on a new lathe. Then, note how well each of the lathes that you are looking at matches that list. That approach will help you narrow your focus down to the machine that is right for you.

When I went through that process, some of the features I wanted include swing, bed length, MT size, motor horsepower, variable speed, the ability to turn in reverse for sanding, and the dimension between the feet (a must for me was to be able to mount the new lathe on an existing bench - I didn't have shop space for anything larger), weight and, of course, price. It turned out that the foot dimension was a critical factor, and I had to sacrifice reverse operation (out of the box - I was able to retrofit something later).

Don't underestimate motor horsepower. As you move to a larger lathe, especially one with greater swing. you will broaden your interest to include bowls as well as items that required drilling. In either case, horsepower will be critical to have the torque needed to do the work.

Final thought - don't overlook brands like Rikon, Turncrafter, Laguna and Jet - they also offer very good machines in the price range you are looking at.

Can you please elaborate on the reverse operation modification that you did?

 

[monophoto]

Can you please elaborate on the reverse operation modification that you did?

When viewed from the tailstock end, the normal direction of rotation of lathes is counterclockwise. Some lathes have the ability to operate in reverse - this feature is most often used when sanding. When you sand on the lathe, the fibers in the wood may be bent in the direction of rotation rather than cut by the abrasive, and when you later apply a finish, those fibers can straighten back up to create a rough surface. Having the ability to operated the lathe in reverse means that you can sand in both direction, which tends to produce a smoother surface.

It is possible, though much less common, to want to run the lathe backwards while turning. Normally, a turner holds the tool against the near-side of the workpiece, which then rotates into the tool. However, there are instances when it is convenient to reverse the lathe rotation, and then apply the tool to the opposite side of the workpiece. Perhaps the most common example of this is when turning a bowl - normal bowl turning involves work between the center of the bowl and the inside edge near the turner, but this may require that the turner reach over the bedways and direct the tool back toward the turner's position which is hard to do, and also complicated by the fact that the turner may not be able to see what the tool is doing. Turning in reverse can overcome those issue. Be aware, however, that reverse turning requires that you have a special chuck - most chucks only screw onto the spindle, and can unscrew if the lathe is operated in reverse. This is not a problem for sanding, but it can be a risk when turning because using turning tools places greater torque on that threaded connection. The solution is to use a chuck that has a grub screw to lock the chuck onto the headstock spindle - not every chuck meets that requirement.

As a result, some lathes are designed to include a switch that reverses the direction of rotation. In my case, the lathe that I chose to buy didn't have a reversing switch, so I added one later. Here's a thread that goes into a lot of detail on how that was done - https://www.penturners.org/threads/reversible-lathe-worth-the-effort.157054/#post-1998649.

 

[egnald]

I went from the Harbor Freight to a JET JWL-1221VS and I really like it! With the belt on the high range I can run slow enough with the variable speed to apply finishes so no more belt changes for me. It also has the reverse switch, but I have never had a need to use it. I think it is certainly worth adding to your list of machines to consider. — Dave

 

[Bigolac]

Are you anywhere near Racine?

I sent you a message - I live in Lafayette County, SW corner of the state.

 

[Bigolac]

Thanks for the replies - I appreciate it. I should have noted in my original post I'm just in it for the fun of it, not any kind of production work.... hence my smallish budget. I'll have a look at the other brands mentioned as well.

- Adam

 

[MedWoodWorx]

When viewed from the tailstock end, the normal direction of rotation of lathes is counterclockwise. Some lathes have the ability to operate in reverse - this feature is most often used when sanding. When you sand on the lathe, the fibers in the wood may be bent in the direction of rotation rather than cut by the abrasive, and when you later apply a finish, those fibers can straighten back up to create a rough surface. Having the ability to operated the lathe in reverse means that you can sand in both direction, which tends to produce a smoother surface.

It is possible, though much less common, to want to run the lathe backwards while turning. Normally, a turner holds the tool against the near-side of the workpiece, which then rotates into the tool. However, there are instances when it is convenient to reverse the lathe rotation, and then apply the tool to the opposite side of the workpiece. Perhaps the most common example of this is when turning a bowl - normal bowl turning involves work between the center of the bowl and the inside edge near the turner, but this may require that the turner reach over the bedways and direct the tool back toward the turner's position which is hard to do, and also complicated by the fact that the turner may not be able to see what the tool is doing. Turning in reverse can overcome those issue. Be aware, however, that reverse turning requires that you have a special chuck - most chucks only screw onto the spindle, and can unscrew if the lathe is operated in reverse. This is not a problem for sanding, but it can be a risk when turning because using turning tools places greater torque on that threaded connection. The solution is to use a chuck that has a grub screw to lock the chuck onto the headstock spindle - not every chuck meets that requirement.

As a result, some lathes are designed to include a switch that reverses the direction of rotation. In my case, the lathe that I chose to buy didn't have a reversing switch, so I added one later. Here's a thread that goes into a lot of detail on how that was done - https://www.penturners.org/threads/reversible-lathe-worth-the-effort.157054/#post-1998649.

thank you for your answer i would like to include a similar setup in my lathe that's why i am asking. i know its usefull but unfortunately not all lathes have such a switch, cheers.

 

[jrista]

I may have higher standards than others...I don't know. Maybe I just have a knack for finding the limitations and shortcomings of the machines I use...

Anyway, I started with a Nova 14DR and hated it. I found it to be extremely cheaply made, and in less than a year it had developed repetitive problems with the control box and headstock/motor. Teknatool sent me no less than FOUR as a replacement control boxes, despite my insistence that the problem appeared to be with the motor (which they refused to acknowledge at first..) I had some extremely odd calls (even disturbing, one of the guys couldn't seem to string two coherent sentences together, and would periodically suddenly and unexpectedly shift back to a prior train of thought...strangest tech support experience I've ever had) with their clearly overworked and hyper-stressed support staff trying to fix the issue with the third replacement over the phone (which produced exactly the same results, no impro, before I finally managed to get them to RMA the device in late September 2020. Sent it back to them in October of 2020, did not get it back until January 2021. They eventually acknowledged that there was something wrong with the headstock and motor. When I receive it back, the headstock had a very loud scraping sound that did not exist before and that I've never been able to eliminate...honestly don't know how anyone would consider that "fixed"... Needles to say, I wasn't happy with the experience in any way, shape, or form. Took half a year to resolve the issues and in the end I was still left with issues.

In any case, the thing sits in a box unused like a useless brick now. I've basically written off Nova/Teknatool given the experience. I have a couple of their chucks and plenty Nova jaws, but I ended up picking up a Record Power chuck when I needed a larger one, which is compatible with Nova jaws. The Record Power chuck is extremely nice, sealed, has never once needed to be disassembled and cleaned like the Novas (which require maintenance every couple of months, involving removing the retaining clip on the back to disassemble, fully clean to get all the grime out that causes stickiness, after which it is usually a huge ordeal to get everything realigned properly so it can be reassembled...I do this for each chuck about every 7-8 weeks).

I replaced the Nova brick with a Wen 14x20 lathe, which IMO, despite being slightly cheaper dollar wise, is a much better designed and built lathe. Its not a perfect lathe, but its been a reliable workhorse for sure. I've turned most of my pens on the Wen. It has been very reliable since I started using it November 2020 (bought it Black Friday that year, as I honestly had no clue when Teknatool might return the Nova to me, if they ever did, as I'd effectively been ghosted by them at that point). Initially the tailstock had some slight slip, and I couldn't adjust the clamp on it to fix the issue. Wen had no issues sending me an entirely new tailstock, no questions asked beyond the initial inquiry into what the problem was, which arrived in a matter of days, New tailstock has worked perfectly since I got it, and I still use it without issue today.

Anyway...that was my experience with the Nova 14DR. It was my first lathe, February 2020, and I've wished I bought a different lathe to start out with since about July 2020 when it started having problems. I think you can do better, if you look around a bit, expand your options a bit, and maybe even try some out before you buy. FWIW, the Grizzly you linked, looks like it is very, very similar if not even the same as the Nova 14DR...design wise, parts wise...so it makes me wonder. There is also Rikon, Jet. IMO, Jet is very, very solid!! Hard to go wrong with them.

I now use a Powermatic 3520C and the Wen 14x20....and something I like about both, is that they are fairly quiet. The 14DR, with hindsight now, was a rather noisy lathe!!

 

[RunnerVince]

Another this to think about from a penturner's perspective is the extension of the tailstock quill. If you routinely do single-body pens, having a longer extension is really nice because you don't have to reposition your tailstock midway through drilling out a blank. The Rikon 70-220 had the best extension in the midi range that I saw, and it ended up being a lovely little lathe for me. I think they've discontinued that model, but I'd buy the replacement if I needed another lathe.

 

[Bigolac]

Another this to think about from a penturner's perspective is the extension of the tailstock quill. If you routinely do single-body pens, having a longer extension is really nice because you don't have to reposition your tailstock midway through drilling out a blank. The Rikon 70-220 had the best extension in the midi range that I saw, and it ended up being a lovely little lathe for me. I think they've discontinued that model, but I'd buy the replacement if I needed another lathe.

That's a good point and something I hadn't considered - thanks!

 

[Bigolac]

Well in my quest to remain frugal (cheap), I've been looking at craigslist and facebook every few days to see what pops up. This afternoon, I picked up an old Craftsman 12x36 for $100. Got it home, and started cleaning it up. It's in pretty good shape to be honest - rails are flat, straight and parallel, and the quill/handwheel is nice and solid. Haven't got to the headstock yet, other than to get the dead center out of it and a little kerosene in the oilers to start cleaning up the gunk. It also came with a Craftsman 1/2 hp motor as well - the thing must weight 40 pounds! Unsure if it works yet.

I can't get any model numbers off of it, other than a stamped number on one of the rails and a '954' on one of the bed castings. If anyone has any ideas where I could look for more information, I'd appreciate it. Feels like it's from the 40s-50s, but not sure. I'm also unsure about the headstock threads - it's about 1.5 inches in diameter with a thread every 1/8 inch. If I can get it in good working condition, one of my first purchases will be a chuck of some sort.

All in all I'm pretty happy to get it - we literally pulled it out of a barn, which was fun, too..

 

[MedWoodWorx]

Well in my quest to remain frugal (cheap), I've been looking at craigslist and facebook every few days to see what pops up. This afternoon, I picked up an old Craftsman 12x36 for $100. Got it home, and started cleaning it up. It's in pretty good shape to be honest - rails are flat, straight and parallel, and the quill/handwheel is nice and solid. Haven't got to the headstock yet, other than to get the dead center out of it and a little kerosene in the oilers to start cleaning up the gunk. It also came with a Craftsman 1/2 hp motor as well - the thing must weight 40 pounds! Unsure if it works yet.

I can't get any model numbers off of it, other than a stamped number on one of the rails and a '954' on one of the bed castings. If anyone has any ideas where I could look for more information, I'd appreciate it. Feels like it's from the 40s-50s, but not sure. I'm also unsure about the headstock threads - it's about 1.5 inches in diameter with a thread every 1/8 inch. If I can get it in good working condition, one of my first purchases will be a chuck of some sort.

All in all I'm pretty happy to get it - we literally pulled it out of a barn, which was fun, too..

View attachment 338814

Oh my god its a beauty! That's a great find for 100 $, you need to do some work but its certainly worth it. Sweet!

 

[RunnerVince]

I can't get any model numbers off of it, other than a stamped number on one of the rails and a '954' on one of the bed castings. If anyone has any ideas where I could look for more information, I'd appreciate it. Feels like it's from the 40s-50s, but not sure.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking it's from later than the 50s. I had a 1953 Craftsman, and it was a monotube design. I'm pretty sure the more standard bed came after the monotubes and double tubes.

 

[Bigolac]

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking it's from later than the 50s. I had a 1953 Craftsman, and it was a monotube design. I'm pretty sure the more standard bed came after the monotubes and double tubes.

I had the same thought, but after chatting with some folks at the hobby-machinist forum, it was made by the Atlas Press company for Sears sometime between 1935-37, before the monotube style came to be. This particular model was called the 'Universal' and could be configured either as a wood or metal lathe. I believe this was a wood lathe from the start, based on the accessories I got with it (tool rest, 1/2" drill chuck, dead center, live center).

It's a really neat old machine! It uses plain bearings - basically a metal sleeve goes around the journal, which is lubricated through an oiler on top of each mount - no ball bearings involved! It uses brass shims to get the proper clearances between the bearing halves.

The tailstock has some adjustment screws to center to the headstock, but they lined up perfectly without any adjustment, which was really surprising considering the condition I found it in. The bed is dead flat, too.

Of course, not all is rosy - there's some scoring on one side of the bearing mount, which says it's seen a decent amount of use. The brass shims are not properly adjusted, either - if you run it with no load at a medium rpm, a decent amount of heat is generated through the bearings (hot to the touch), so that will need to be addressed. The wiring is atrocious to say the least - goes from some light lamp wire to 12/2 romex. Thankfully, these are relatively minor issues which I'm confident I can fix.

My goal is to get it in good running condition with the current motor. If I get a wild hair in me, I might try to mount a variable speed DC motor for more control.

 

[Velcrodog]

I went from the Harbor Freight to a JET JWL-1221VS and I really like it! With the belt on the high range I can run slow enough with the variable speed to apply finishes so no more belt changes for me. It also has the reverse switch, but I have never had a need to use it. I think it is certainly worth adding to your list of machines to consider. — Dave

I have one as well..Picked up a nearly new used one with extra accessories for a great price. Love it, no problems at all. I also picked up an old Nova3000 for 150.00 with some accesories.This us a workhorse and turns like a dream. Check Facebook Marketplace, and contact your closest Turning Club as they are usually great people who can give you some leads.

 

[KMCloonan]

I did my whole "venting" thing about a year ago regarding NOVA DR14. My short advice a year later is similar to Jon (jrista): Avoid the Nova 14DR if at all possible. Even if it did not have reliability issues (which it did), the belt change ordeal sucked SO BAD that to this day I smile when I change the belt on my Laguna.

 

[Ray-CA]