Artisan Versus Dayacom Zen Rollerball

[jcm71]

Is there any difference as to quality? Is Artisan a Dayacom by another name? The reason I am asking is that I have a customer who is interested in me crafting and engraving over 50 of these bad boys. Any insight greatly appreciated.

John

 

[jttheclockman]

Both kits are made in Tawain which is good. Probably same caliber and quality. I just love Dayacom kits. Ed would probably be able to answer that for you. He deals with Dayacom kits.

 

[Darios]

Barring the opinion of someone who has directly seen both, I'd guess that one is a knock off of the other. Same appearance, same price, and the same use of the phrase "simple, straightforward design" in the advertising text.

My /guess/ is that Dayacom is the original IP that's being copied.

And as a tie-breaker, going with the one that bothers to put it's name on it's product is probably the better play.

Note - I don't know if Dayacom stamped it's name on the Zen, but I do know it stamps it's name on it's other products. At least in regards to a different Dayacom kit and the knock off targeting that one.

 

[egnald]

I am 90% sure that the Artisan Zen sold by Craft Supplies USA is a Dayacom as well as the Zen kit from Exotic Blanks. The similar design kits that I have used were all about half the price and their tips were a slightly different profile. The Dayacom tips were a single arc from the very tip up to the flange, but the tips on the similar design had a notch machined into them such as the Eco Zen (Exotic Blanks) and Magnetic (Crooked Mill).

In my opinion the "official" Dayacom kits have been a higher quality kit as would be expected, however, also in my opinion they are not more than two times the quality as the price differential would suggest -- about $25 vs about $10.

Dave

 

[Darios]

In my opinion the "official" Dayacom kits have been a higher quality kit as would be expected, however, also in my opinion they are not more than two times the quality as the price differential would suggest -- about $25 vs about $10.

To take it on a tangent from the OP's question, for me I guess it depends on the scenario. I can certainly see a case for the lower cost component but I am finding that for things of importance such items going out for sale or gifts to good friends, when running the cost equation of kit+blank+shop+value of time, the impact in variation of in the kit cost tends to be lessened.

For a specific example from just this past weekend : I was visiting some friends from in another state and saw that the plating on a pen I'd made for one of them was scratched. In fact, when I'd touched it another flake just came off on my finger.

I'd saved about $6 by using a knock off Sierra (in my defense it was the only one that had the right color or red/gold that I could find) but had put a $20 Kallenshaan laser kit blank on it. I can save the blank but just the sheer time and hassle involved in fixing this (let alone the cost of a new kit itself) has totally destroyed the money I "saved".

Of course, that is purely anecdotal evidence. It'd be interesting to see a failure/return rate comparison between various kits and their knock offs - though I wouldn't even begin to be able to figure out how to track something like that.

And a minor point that in no way detracts from your very valid point - the chrome version of Artisan and Dayacom Zens come in at around $19 - a still far from insignificant cost over the $9 kits, especially when multiplied by the 50 units the OP is looking at.

 

[jcm71]

Up to 65+ pens now. First 15 due mid Dec and the rest in April.

 

[Darios]

Well, I guess we know what you'll be posting for "look what I turned this week" for a while to come now.

Actually, at that volume, running a test batch might be worth it if you have the time. For ex:
1 Artisan (quality) of one color, 1 Zen (quality) of a different color, 1 Eco Zen (economical) of a third color, 1 Magnetic (economical) of a 4th. That way you can get the best of all possible data for your decision.

And as a bonus, if you haven't already worked a price and/or aren't certain of the customer's price sensitivity, you could then bring them to the customer as proofs/examples and give them a price list :
- quality kit in black TI will be $X
- quality in chrome will be $Y
- economical in gun metal will be $Z, etc.
Maybe even toss in some different inks if you think they might be interested in the differences there.

With the finished item in their hands they will be better able to feel and see what they are able to ask for and get.

It's something I picked up from my artist partner. Giving the client 3 -5 rough and fast thumbnail sketches before the final piece really helps the client feel empowered about their choice - and REALLY cuts down on the "but that's not what I wanted" rework.

The other part of that equation is "never give the customer a thumbnail of something you absolutely don't want to do". If any of the kits don't work out, leave 'em off

And... maybe have the numbers ready if they want to mix and match and you end up losing the bulk order discount.

Maybe you will want to leave off the Magnetics too. Their website shows that they have less than 20 of each color in stock.

 

[jcm71]

Thank you for all of your inputs. I have already done most of what you have suggested, Darios. My first suggestion was a 27/64 pen as their diameter makes it easier to engrave. I also steered them away from dual barrel pens. When the CEO got more specific as to the engraving he wanted, I suggested either a YARI OR A Zen due to their longer barrels. Showed him pics of both with plating options and he chose the Zen Black Ti. I also showed him his desired engraving on 5 different woods, and he and his staff have made their choice. All I need now is a down payment and the names he would like engraved.

 

[Darios]

Shoulda figured that. I just got going on a tear there.

 

[Penchant 4]

Thank you for all of your inputs. I have already done most of what you have suggested, Darios. My first suggestion was a 27/64 pen as their diameter makes it easier to engrave. I also steered them away from dual barrel pens. When the CEO got more specific as to the engraving he wanted, I suggested either a YARI OR A Zen due to their longer barrels. Showed him pics of both with plating options and he chose the Zen Black Ti. I also showed him his desired engraving on 5 different woods, and he and his staff have made their choice. All I need now is a down payment and the names he would like engraved.

Congratulations on this commission! May many more follow.