Exploding Inlace Acrylester????

parnelli_97 · Jul 11, 2009

I bought 2 purple #4 Inlace Acrylester blanks from rockler. The first thing I noticed were these little air pockets on the side of the blank that was cut, and the 2nd blank had these on 2 sides. I assumed they were from the way they were cut. As I was turning them I noticed air pockets throughout the blank. And finally they exploded when they were near their finished size.

What I'm wondering is, are the air pockets defects? because I bought another piece of inlace, not sure which one. It just looked nice and I grabbed it at the last second. It also had the air pockets but didn't explode. The air pockets made it a nightmare to finish. I had to sand it until it was almost useless. The ends are over-cut because I had to sand out the air pockets. I'm starting to worry about Inlace Acrylester from Rockler. Is it just a bad batch or does rockler buy sub par materials?

Excuse the fact the image is blurry I had a hard time photographing it and not throwing it across the room.

John M · Jul 12, 2009

I never had a problem with any of their blanks, but I do pick through them and noticed ones with little bubbles or pockets, I make sure I dont buy those, now I am glad I did.

Dalecamino · Jul 12, 2009

First , welcome to the IAP ! I have turned some blanks with these pockets , and what I learned from watching the videos in our library , is to fill those pockets with CA glue as you turn the blanks .That is , just put a drop in the hole . It's only my opinion that you may be too agressive with your tool . (I may be wrong) I think you are using a gouge , even after the blank is round . You want to switch to the skew , after you have rounded the blank . Take light cuts .

I would also like for you to purchase your blanks from our vendors here on the IAP . These folks (in my opinion ) produce quality material , and I believe all of them stand behind their products .

Lastly , try taking your photos with a solid background . The details of your keyboard may be confusing your camera . Try a white sheet of paper . You can find a tutorial in our library on pen photography . Hope this helps , and maybe some of our more proficient members can help further . Good luck !

ldb2000 · Jul 12, 2009

Inlace Acrylester is one of the most brittle acrylics made and as such it is one of the hardest to turn . These blanks require scary sharp tools and a very very light touch . If you attempt to turn them as the same as PR or similar acrylic you will have allot of catastrophic failures .
I have done quite a few of these blanks and the failures I have had have ALL been my fault , over aggressive turning and dull tools have been the reason for several of these failures . Poor glue adhesion between the tube and blank are almost always at the heart of the failures . I now use epoxy to glue up any of the more brittle blanks that I turn and my failure rate has dropped to almost zero but on occasion I still will shatter one with an over aggressive cut .
From the picture you show it looks like you did not have good adhesion of the whole tube and a catch caused the blank to twist and shatter . I have seen this type of failure before and am quite sure that is what happened .
Sharpen your tools and use a skew with a very light touch and make sure that you have good glue coverage over the full length of the tube and you won't have this problem too often .
As for the air pockets , I have never seen them in these blanks before but I have never bought them from Rockler so who knows .

DozerMite · Jul 12, 2009

The stuff is very brittle and because of the inlace acrylester, I began casting my own stuff.
I too found blanks with bubbles through them and mine came straight from Ryan. I also found the bubbles in some of the blanks from Hut back before acrylester was around, I forget what they were called.

alphageek · Jul 12, 2009

I agree with the others... You didn't say how much experience you have. I can now turn inlace w/o exploding, but I know others that still can't. Personally I would recommend trying other types for a while till you get better, then you can choose to try again if they really have your eye.

Personally, I only bought the inlace due to the incredible colors that some of them have (like molten metal)... but now Dawn at exoticblanks.com has been able to match and beat that color scheme in a much more turner friendly acrylic.

aggromere · Jul 12, 2009

some time back I bought some arcylic blanks from rockler and only one made it successfully to being a pen. I don't buy from them anymore.

thewishman · Jul 12, 2009

The inlace is difficult to turn, but it produces such a nice finished pen it is worth the trouble. Glue failure was my main cause of frustration - not enough glue evenly spread out along the tubes.

For a blow-out or pocket, you can usually fix them just as if you were doing a burl blank. Take some of the shavings (dust) from the turning and pack the hole or crack and add thin CA glue. I usually cannot tell where there was a problem once the blanks are polished.

Inlace has a distinctive grippy feeling when polished, not slick like PR, even though the shine is comparable. A great material.

HSTurning · Jul 12, 2009

I have made 10-12 slimlines 3 weeks ago from this material and from rockler.
As Butch had mentioned the problem on this blank was the glue. I use thick CA or Gorilla. I will be trying epoxy at some point. I do have an ocational blow out they are almost always on a corner when rounding the blank.

How I turn them:
lathe at 3700rpm
hunter tool or gouge to round
hit the diamonds stone with skew
finish turning with skew
wet sand 320 600 mm 2400-1200
hut crystal coat final buff

Go slow

parnelli_97 · Jul 12, 2009

I am a new turner, I only have a few pen's under my belt. I will admit the first half of a blank that blew up was my fault for taking too big of a cut. The second one it was round and I was using the skew to finalize the shape of the grip and it hooked an air bubble and took a chunk out so big I couldn't salvage it, not quite the same as this last piece it didn't chip down to the tube, just far enough it was unusable. Then this blank looks like there wasn't any glue through the part that came off the tube... I'm trying to figure this out... Here's how I glue it up, tell me if I'm doing it wrong. I put a few drops of med CA in one end of the blank and let it run down the inside of the blank while turning it, I make sure the inside of it is coated, then insert the tube, wipe off excess and let it air dry, no accelerator.

P.S. I apologized for the photography.... I used to be a professional photographer, I know how to photograph a product... however at almost 11pm & showing off a blown up item, I wasn't about to go setup a mini studio for it.

Turning speed 700 rpm
Tools are Craftsman, and sharpened by hand before each use on acrylic.
I started with a 1" gouge to round it out, a 1" skew on the plastic and 1/2" round nosed scraper on the metal inlay which was an experiment using the platter from an old hard drive and a penny... Come to find out the hard drive platters are like turning stone, eventually you wear them down but it's HARD!!! Nice shade of silver though, I didn't finish it, but the rough cut looks like chrome.

As far as the cut that caused the problem, I was taking off very little material, a nice long swirl of purple acrylic coming off the blade, then all of a sudden. BANG! and pieces of acrylic everywhere.

wolftat · Jul 12, 2009

I have turned many of these blanks and have had problems with some, but it was usually somehting that I did wrong. I have found that you need to make sure your tools are razor sharp and when turning, you need to make very light cuts. I have used all types of glue and basically have found that all of them are doing the same thing for me. Just slow down and relax a bit when turning these and you will find it goes a bit easier. The air holes are a fact of life. Instead of trying to sand them out(which you won't do), try filling them in with a little bit of CA. This will take care of the problem and you won't be able to tell once the pen is finished.

Instead of using medium CA, try using thick gap filling CA it works better for this application.

ed4copies · Jul 12, 2009

parnelli_97 said:
I am a new turner, I only have a few pen's under my belt. I will admit the first half of a blank that blew up was my fault for taking too big of a cut. The second one it was round and I was using the skew to finalize the shape of the grip and it hooked an air bubble and took a chunk out so big I couldn't salvage it, not quite the same as this last piece it didn't chip down to the tube, just far enough it was unusable. Then this blank looks like there wasn't any glue through the part that came off the tube... I'm trying to figure this out... Here's how I glue it up, tell me if I'm doing it wrong. I put a few drops of med CA in one end of the blank and let it run down the inside of the blank while turning it, I make sure the inside of it is coated, then insert the tube, wipe off excess and let it air dry, no accelerator.

P.S. I apologized for the photography.... I used to be a professional photographer, I know how to photograph a product... however at almost 11pm & showing off a blown up item, I wasn't about to go setup a mini studio for it.

Turning speed 700 rpm
Tools are Craftsman, and sharpened by hand before each use on acrylic.
I started with a 1" gouge to round it out, a 1" skew on the plastic and 1/2" round nosed scraper on the metal inlay which was an experiment using the platter from an old hard drive and a penny... Come to find out the hard drive platters are like turning stone, eventually you wear them down but it's HARD!!! Nice shade of silver though, I didn't finish it, but the rough cut looks like chrome.

As far as the cut that caused the problem, I was taking off very little material, a nice long swirl of purple acrylic coming off the blade, then all of a sudden. BANG! and pieces of acrylic everywhere.

I would recommend you speed this up, a lot. At 700 rpm, your tool can easily be unstable. Try to turn over 2000 rpm. If this looks REAL FAST to you, turn some wood at that speed, just to get used to it. I believe your success rate will improve.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with 4000 rpm, either, but some lathes won't go that fast.

parnelli_97 · Jul 12, 2009

My lathe max is 3200 rpm, I normally turn at 2200 rpm, but with the metal I was turning slower so I wouldn't kill my tools on the hard metal. I thought metal needed to be turned slower. I'll turn my next acrylic at 32 and see how it goes. What about the gluing technique? I have some gorilla expanding glue should I try that?

ed4copies · Jul 12, 2009

I glue everything except painted tubes with CA-thick. RARELY I blow up a blank.

WHEN I blow it up, I usually realize I have been thinking of something else and made a stupid move.

But, that's just me. You are welcome to try anything that may work for you.

ed4copies · Jul 12, 2009

BTW, I agree with your position on metal, but you may want to start by filing it down, then turn the rest of the blank in a more normal manner. Trying to do both at once certainly WILL add to the challenge.

Treat the metal like a bushing, turn up TO it, not through it. THEN, use a file to do the metal at slower speed.

NewLondon88 · Jul 12, 2009

I've never had much luck with the acrylester blanks. I've bought about 20, had
success with one. They have a tendency to blow out while drilling if you don't keep
them cool. Or cold. Air bubbles are common in them, but they happen in lots of blanks.
I've always felt that the acrylester was more brittle than it needed to be, but there's
some great color combinations. But I no longer buy them.

parnelli_97 · Jul 13, 2009

I solved the blowout while drilling, I use a 10cc syringe of water and make small cuts every time I come up I fill the blank back up with water, it keeps the heat down very well. If you see bubbles while drilling, back out and put in more water. Also clear away all the slag from the bit when you pull it out. My process goes like this, plunge about 1/8 inch, pull up, turn drill press off, squirt water in the blank, brush off chips, start up drill press and start the whole process over. I have not had 1 blowout on the drill press since.

Also a tip from another member here (I wish I could remember who), put a block of scrap below the acrylic piece to help alleviate the pressure pushing down on the acrylic.

parnelli_97 · Jul 13, 2009

I'll try doing that instead, the scraper worked wonders on the metal vs the gouge and skew. But I'll try the file instead.

ed4copies said:
BTW, I agree with your position on metal, but you may want to start by filing it down, then turn the rest of the blank in a more normal manner. Trying to do both at once certainly WILL add to the challenge.

Treat the metal like a bushing, turn up TO it, not through it. THEN, use a file to do the metal at slower speed.

parnelli_97 · Jul 13, 2009

what do you use for painted tubes, and what do you paint them with? I've heard testor model paint, but I thought CA would remove that paint (past modeling experience with that) So what is used?

ed4copies said:
I glue everything except painted tubes with CA-thick. RARELY I blow up a blank.

WHEN I blow it up, I usually realize I have been thinking of something else and made a stupid move.

But, that's just me. You are welcome to try anything that may work for you.

Dalecamino · Jul 13, 2009

parnelli_97 said:
what do you use for painted tubes, and what do you paint them with? I've heard testor model paint, but I thought CA would remove that paint (past modeling experience with that) So what is used?

Two part epoxy . Manny (monte) sells it , and MLKwoodworking sells it .

Daniel · Jul 13, 2009

I love the Acrylester for the looks. But every pen I have made out of it is either cracked or otherwise dinged or gouged due to it's hardness. I found it to be the closest thing to glass I have ever turned. Since the pens I made where for friends and family they liked them anyway but I woudl never take an order for a pen made from it. there are simply way to many other options in stuff that will turn well.

As for the lathe speed, it needs to go way up. my bet is so does your drilling speed. you should be at three times the speed you are at.

My intuition says that getting a good coat of glue with CA requires a better refined technique. basically you don't want to go overboard withthe glue but how far can you spread a drop or two. I like epoxy because I plug the end of the tube. fill the hole in the blank about half full then push the tube through the blank. Basically the brass tube has to push it's way through the epoxy so the glue is oozing all over and around it. if a bead of glue does not come out the far end that still fills the entire hole I did not use enough glue. and yes I waste a lot of the glue I mix up. I have a $45 pen kit, $6 blank. I am not screwing it up over 10 cents in glue. I use a painters spatula to scoop the epoxy into the hole, it is still a very messy ordeal. I use Gorilla glue for most blanks but still like Epoxy for acrylics.

Seer · Jul 13, 2009

I guess I was lucky. I bought 2 of them and have only turned one in a Wall Street II pen and did not have any problems.

Exploding Inlace Acrylester????

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