Problems finishing cocobolo

CharlesH · Jun 21, 2011

Hey guys,

I have problems finishing cocobolo. I need your help to pinpoint the possible cause.

I mainly have two problems: CA does not seem to hold well on the wood and the finish gets cloudy as soon I push accelerator so I have to sand and sometimes after a little while cloudiness appears on the finish. My garage is really humid, I can see the humidity on the floor and the windows. I had an awesome piece of cocobolo with rare raindrop pattern which blown into pieces after 5-6 hours of finishing problems. I am usually able to make a nice finish.

I used new CA glue, same thing, changed accelerator, same thing, sanded down and used acetone to remove the oiliness of cocobolo, same thing. It seems I just can't finish cocobolo on this particular day.

Thanks for any pointers I am quite disappointed, it's a blank I have been saving for some time.

Charles

wood-of-1kind · Jun 21, 2011

I do not finish cocobolo with CA due to its "oily" nature, but I do use a buffing compound(s) to give that extra shine.

Mike Lindstrom · Jun 21, 2011

Haven't had the problem with CA, but polys won't cure over coco. A couple of seal coats with shellac (de-waxed) solves finish issues. However, it sounds like it might be still wet. You might plan on it cracking in a few months.

Mike

nativewooder · Jun 21, 2011

Due to the oily nature of cocobolo, you should wipe it with acetone a time or two before applying CA Glue. However, cocobolo produces a very high shine when buffed following normal procedures.

bitshird · Jun 21, 2011

Charles I can't believe that a piece of Coco is beating you up, My guess is since you've used Acetone to remove the surface oils, I'm guessing it's a Humidity problem, I hope you find the cure, knowing your work it has to be be stunning piece of timber, Also if you've had this for some time, that alone should eliminate a lot of the moisture/ oil based problems, so I'll stick with it's too humid in you shop

Dave Turner · Jun 21, 2011

I just finished two cocobolo pens today with CA finish. No problems. I wipe them down with accelerator and let dry a minute prior to applying the layers of medium CA (12 coats). I do a quick spritz of accelerator immediately after every coat of CA. I've only had good luck with Hot Stuff NCF Quick aerosol accelerator so far.

My guess is it's your humidity.

IPD_Mr · Jun 21, 2011

Dave has the trick. Also pay attention to the accelerator you use. Some are heavy acetone base and others have very little acetone. It is the ones with little to no acetone that you want to use in these situations.

CharlesH · Jun 21, 2011

The piece been drying for the last 7 years, once you go CA, you don't go back.

I finished quite a few pieces of coco without having problems. If you guys are curious regarding my finish just click the link in my signature, most of the time I suceed.

The accelerator with less acetone make sense, anyone have been reporting to have problems with humidity and finishing with CA?

Thanks for the quick responses!

Charles

Sent from my iTouch.

jasontg99 · Jun 21, 2011

Here is what Russ Fairfield told me: I have heard it claimed that soaking for a couple days will remove all of the oil from the turned and sanded pen barrels, and that a CA finish will not deteriorate. I have seen these pens, but not over sufficient time to say it worked.

It works. I have tried it but it leaves the wood a completely different color. If you hit it with an oil like blo or teak it will bring the color back, just make sure you burnish the heck out of it or you are right back to square one....an oily blank.

EricJS · Jun 21, 2011

Charles, I learned how to use CA finish on a Cocobolo blank. It beat me half to death. Once I got the cocobolo blank right, everything else was a breeze.

There are two things I always do when finishing Cocobolo: I always wipe it thoroughly with acetone before applying the first coat and I seal the ends with CA.

The only drawback is that I'm using Cocobolo blanks from the same board. A different blank may have different characteristics, causing different results.

Keep trying. Mine first two clouded up & caused me to strip the CA off at least half a dozen times. The last 4 blanks worked perfectly the first time, even in a hot humid shop.

Good luck.

ryvnd2001 · Jun 22, 2011

Well Charles...did you get it to work? If so, what did you do different?

PenMan1 · Jun 22, 2011

IPD_Mr said:
Dave has the trick. Also pay attention to the accelerator you use. Some are heavy acetone base and others have very little acetone. It is the ones with little to no acetone that you want to use in these situations.

Yep! exactly what I was thinking!

Additionally, cocobolo is much like a cat. It tends to do what it wants to do. You can take two blanks cut from the same timber at approximately that same level of humidity. Using the exact same procedures, one will finish flawlessly the other will be more ghosty than Casper.

CharlesH · Jun 22, 2011

ryvnd2001 said:
Well Charles...did you get it to work? If so, what did you do different?

I have little time for me, I shall check in the next month or so. I think I will get the accelerator mentionned above.

Charles

Sent from my iTouch.

jcm71 · Jun 22, 2011

COCOBOLO FINISH

Charles,
I just finished a Cocobolo pen less than an hour ago with no problems. My shop is also humid (Chattanooga, TN). I use a thin CA/BLO finish (10 coats) (no prior acetone treatment) with no problems. I top off with 10 coats of Hut. The one I made today is a replacement for one I sold last Sunday.

Burlman

www.wellturnedpens.com

TellicoTurning · Jun 22, 2011

I haven't done a cocobolo pen in quite a while, but I think I always wiped it down with acetone before I started a finish... something about the oiliness of the wood.

CharlesH · Jun 24, 2011

Hey guys,

So I tried to turn another one, no luck! I wiped down the blank with acetone.

So what brand of accelerator I shall use to avoid the cloudiness? I am quite disappointed, I feel like I cannot finish a pen anymore. It's like I cannot build a finish since I have to sand the white marks between each coats.

Thanks,

Charles

ryvnd2001 · Jun 24, 2011

I use NCF-Quick accelerator. Never had any problems

Ryan

CharlesH · Jun 24, 2011

I shall grab some, can you point me where it is sold online?

Thanks for the help,

EDIT: I am located in Canada.

Charles

wb7whi · Jun 24, 2011

A member of our club soaks his blanks in alcohol for an hour or so. I have tried it and it works. The color does go lighter but the CA application seems to bring it back.

CharlesH · Jun 24, 2011

We exchanged PM's.

On the other hand I finished at least 20 pens of different sources of cocobolo without having a hard time like this.

I am pretty sure the problem is related to the accelerator/spray bottle I use. It sprays small droplets unevenly. After multiple multiple tests on a few different species of wood the CA gets cloudy on each blanks.

Now my best bet is to try another brand and see if I can replicate the problem. I am trying to find a place online where they are willing to ship me that NCF accelerator in spray bottle.

Charles

wb7whi said:
A member of our club soaks his blanks in alcohol for an hour or so. I have tried it and it works. The color does go lighter but the CA application seems to bring it back.

paintspill · Jun 24, 2011

i've done quite a few cocobolo with no problems. what i do find is if i hit my ca with accelerator too soon it will cloud for sure. let your pen spin for a little longer before hitting it. just an idea

CharlesH · Jun 24, 2011

paintspill said:
i've done quite a few cocobolo with no problems. what i do find is if i hit my ca with accelerator too soon it will cloud for sure. let your pen spin for a little longer before hitting it. just an idea

Thanks for your thoughts!

In case any other canucks are interested in buying some NCF accelerator in a can format, I bought directly from them: www.caglue.com.

I have sent them a email as well, looking forward what they say.

Charles

CharlesH · Jun 27, 2011

Hey guys,

So I made two pens today: cocobolo and african blackwood, I will post pictures in the show off your pens forums shortly.

Everything is back to normal, did not use any acetone, on both pens, no special preparation. I used accelerator from a longer distance and used a fan to get some airflow.

I contacted Satellite City which are the makers of the NCF accelerator/Hot Stuff CA glue. I asked them about my problem and here is the very detailed answer David provided, I was amazed at the quality of his response.

I hope it will help someone out!

Thanks,

Charles

Hello Charles,

Thank you for your order and your e-mail. I checked out your website and your work is very beautiful. I think you will really like working with our NCF Quick accelerator. I don't think that the oil content of the wood or the acetone would cause any blooming (cloudiness in the glue). From my experience there have been three causes for blooming in ca glues.

1. The accelerator you are using is causing the glue to cure too quickly. Sometimes when too much accelerator is applied or if your spray nozzle allows larger droplets of accelerator to hit the glue rather than a fine mist it can cause blooming. I don't think this is your problem however since you have done so many pens in the past without this problem.

2. A very humid environment can be a cause for blooming in CA glues. What happens is the moisture in the air doesn't allow the vapors from the curing fumes to disperse and it ends up settling back down on the glue causing the blooming effect. Its always a good idea to work with CA glues in an ventilated area in order to allow the curing fumes to escape. If possible you may want to try using a small fan and see if you have any luck with that.

3. You may have a bad bottle of glue. I'm not sure if you are using our glue or another CA glue but very rarely we will get a bottle here or there that just seems to be having problems with blooming for no apparent reason. The strange thing is its not a whole batch of glue that turns out bad but maybe a few bottles here and there from the same bulk batch. When you started having problems with blooming, had you just opened a new bottle of glue?

Those are some things to take into consideration regarding blooming with CA glues. It sounds like you should be able to get to the bottom of it and figure out exactly what is going on. I hope you find this information useful and if you have any further questions please don't hesitate to contact me.

Best Regards,
--
David DeJulio
Satellite City Instant Glues
T: (800) 786-0062
F: (888) 200-9413
david@caglue.com

jfoh · Jun 28, 2011

Some cocobolo has so much oil in it that no amount of treatment will get a good finish. I had one blank that I finished one end five times and still got white areas. I did it all and it was just not going to work. Life is short and one blank will not be missed in the grand scheme. I pitched it and considered that with my luck finish attempt number six, seven or eight might have been perfect but it would have cracked when I assembled it.

I have had very good results with lacquer on cocobolo. My wife has her every day pen for four years and it still looks perfect. Oh the checks that pen has written. Instead of the finish failing I wish the refill had instead.

Grizz · Jun 28, 2011

Dave Turner said:
I just finished two cocobolo pens today with CA finish. No problems. I wipe them down with accelerator and let dry a minute prior to applying the layers of medium CA (12 coats). I do a quick spritz of accelerator immediately after every coat of CA. I've only had good luck with Hot Stuff NCF Quick aerosol accelerator so far.

My guess is it's your humidity.

Pretty much what I do and have had no problems either.

Problems finishing cocobolo

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