Hello and Help

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

Jimos

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Messages
20
Location
Hiawassee GA
Hello All,
Joined IAP a month ago after years since I last turned a pen. I live in NE Georgia and I originally joined after having issues with white spots, CA finishing, on a project I did for my son-in-law (aka Meathead). Anyway, easily found the answers I was looking for and also recognized immediately that what I was seeing on the forum is way above my pay grade. Much to learn for certain.


Anyway, after doing this project, I got the pen turning bug. Unfortunately, Murphy seems to be following me down to my shop on a frequent basis. Some issues are simply my own doing. But others have me asking questions. Hopefully my first post pics go through OK. Any comments/solutions will be greatly appreciated.
1. First turnings in years referenced above. Reclamated wood of historical significance.
2. Padauk. Have used this before with no issues, but had to throw away a completed turning because of the small holes(what's this called) which allows the CA to fill in and turn white. Is there a solution or did I just get a bad piece?
3. Sanding. I did this slim-line and all was good until I went to the 600 grit which was black. Immediately turned the curly maple blank dark and although I went back through the sanding process from the beginning, I couldn't get the black out. Is there 600 grit that isn't black?
4. Rosewood Burmese. I purchased a tool grinder 25 years ago, but I'm using a roughing gouge that came with my inherited Shopsmith. I sharpened my gouge at least twice during this turning, but still managed to chunk out a piece of wood and ruin the blank. Bad luck, or bad equipment?

I sure hope I haven't violated forum decorum with all these questions in a Introductions Thread. I've seen postings that mention forum buys where everyone commits to a buy at a discounted rate. Maybe we can find a psych doctor who can help me psychoanalyze my pen turning issues. :biggrin:

Thanks everyone. Enjoy the Memorial Day holiday. God bless those who gave all.

OK. After previewing my post, I can see that only 1 pic was downloaded. I think this is a IPAD issue. I'll repost photos. Thanks again.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    193.6 KB · Views: 196
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

Rick_G

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,994
Location
Bothwell, Ontario, Canada.
For the CA turning white, did you use an accelerator? To much accelerator on a thicker coating of CA will do this. For wood my first two coats of CA are thin as I find it soaks into the wood and seals it after that I switch to medium. When I find small pinholes like you show I will put on a coat of medium, no accelerator and go watch TV until the next commercial, come back and put on another coat. After several coats I will sand it back and see if the holes are filled, if not do it again. After sanding, clean it well making sure all the sanding dust is out of the holes before adding more CA. Eventually the holes get filled and you can continue to finish as usual.

As for the black from the sandpaper I haven't run into this. I get my sandpaper at the wood shows and I think it is automotive sandpaper. The stuff I have now is made in Germany and is marked Matador and is waterproof. Also marked siliciumcarbid which I think is silicon carbide paper.

As for taking the chunk out I think we all have done it. It could be a hairline crack that was not visible or simply a matter of not engaging the bevel on the tool before the cutting edge. Cutting edge hits first with nothing to support it and it will grab and with wood as thin as a pen blank there's a pretty good chance you will take a chunk out.

Hope this helps
 

magpens

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
15,913
Location
Canada
Welcome to IAP, Jim !!! . You seem to be going through the rites of initiation !!! :biggrin:

It happens to us all ... some sooner, some later.
 

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,084
Location
NJ, USA.
Hello Jim and welcome to the site.

I will give you my opinion on a few things you mentioned. Lets start with the curly maple and the black. When using woods like that there are a couple different grain density which gives the curly look. In this case the the areas that turn black are more open grain. This allows cross contamination from the surrounding woods or from other sources such as the black sandpaper. When you say black sandpaper I am assuming this is automotive grade paper and is meant to use wet. Do not use this paper dry on bare wood. If you are going to top coat with CA there is absolutely no reason to go above 400 grit paper. You will never fill pinholes by going to finer and finer grit. You will close the grain pores but that does not solve the pin holes which you experienced in the Paduk wood.

To fill those you can do a wood slurry mix of sand dust (dust from the wood you are trying to fill such as the paduk) and some wood glue such as Titebond or even white elmers glue will work. You can use CA but it will kick off real quick and not enough working time. Let dry and then lightly sand with 400 grit. Job done. Now start your finishing dance with whatever is your choice. Make sure to clean the blank with air pressure or wipe with DNA. Do not use mineral spirits. Let dry before applying a couple coats of thin CA and then 4 to 5 coats of med ca. Do not sand in between. Save all sanding after all coats are applied. Then do your sanding dance with whatever is your choice. I can tell you my methods but they may not work for you or anyone else so that is why I say do your own thing.

The roughing gouge. Lose it and lose it quick. For what you are doing it is too large of a tool with no control on a PEN blank. Plenty other tools to choose from such as skew (my favorite) spindle gouge or detail gouge, or many carbide tool cutters to choose from. You need to be able to sharpen your tools efficiently. Let others explain that. :) The blank you shown with the chip is a heavy grained wood and from where it chipped it was around a heavy grain section. When working with woods like that, light cuts and sharp tools are a must. Work the ends down little at a time toward the bushings. Then start working back toward the center of the blank. Do this going the other way also.


I see you are really into the segmenting of different colored woods. You will run into problems with cross contamination from sanding and you will be asking how to correct this soon. So I will offer my solution because I segment alot. That is lose the sand paper and learn to use a skew. It avoids the dreaded radius scratches from sanding and contamination from different colored woods and wood grains. Again this is my opinion and the way I handle these things.

Hope some of this helps. Good luck.
 
Last edited:

Jimos

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Messages
20
Location
Hiawassee GA
J.T you are spot on regarding some of my issues. The 600 grit definitely says wet, but I didn't know you shouldn't use dry. I can also start filling the holes with a slurry. I've been careful to use accelerator at least 2 feet back and very lightly, but I assume you agree with Rick's comments above, especially if there are any imperfections in the wood (holes).

I guess it's time to learn how to use a skew. I've never used one. I actually watched a YouTube video of someone a week ago using one, and since I have one, gave it a shot. After a minute or so, my blank looked like a candle holder with radial patterns around the blank. Roughing gouge to the rescue! I need to spend more time learning proper techniques with these tools. The pen making class I took 25 or so years ago taught with a roughing gouge.

Thanks again for the help. Very much appreciated.
 

JimB

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
4,683
Location
West Henrietta, NY, USA.
Practice using the skew on scrap wood. For many people, including myself, the skew has a very long learning curve.

The first step is to get it properly profiled and sharpened. The skew is unforgiving if you don't. Then you will need to learn proper technique. Then practice.

I've been turning for about 8 years and never could master the skew. Last year I visited another woodturner and after about 4 hours with him I had the basics of using the skew with all the different cuts. It then took many more hours of practice in my own shop before I was good (not great) with it. It was worth every minute of my time. The skew is an amazing tool once you learn how to proper use it.
 

thewishman

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
8,181
Location
Reynoldsburg, Ohio, USA.
Welcome from Ohio!

Snadpaper is a tool and it pays to buy the nicer stuff. I use Norton 3X, other people use different brands (Abranet, Klingspor...) If the sandpaper you are using leaves black grit - get rid of it.

Sand to as high a grit as you want - people like nice smooth pen barrels.

When I turn wood, even stabilized wood, I stop after sanding to 320 and put a drop or two of thin CA on the sandpaper, with the sanding dust left from the last pass. I work the sanding dust and CA into the blank at whatever speed I was sanding. I work from the middle out to the ends. Make sure that the slurry is still wet clear to the ends of the blank, you'll get some little bits of glue flipped up by the lathe (a face mask is a good thing to wear.) If your sanding dust gets all used up before you get to the ends, grab a fresh piece of 320 and sand a bit more, then add the CA and finish working it into the blank.

If there is still some grit not loaded up with slurry, use that to sand down everything until the wet is gone. Sometimes you need a fresh strip of 320 for that step.

Proceed to 400 grit and inspect blank, if there are still some pits, do the slurry thing with the 400.

Be very careful at the bushings, don't sand ito them and then take that piece back over your wood - the steel dust will contaminate the wood with black specks.
 

BKelley

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
891
Location
Tucker, Georgia, 30084
Hi Neighbor,
I live just down the road from you, well maybe a little further, Tucker. You have gotten some good answers for your problems. I will expound a little if I may. First, I suspect you may have picked up the black from your 600 grit paper hitting the bushings. Jttheclockman is very knowledgeable, but the black sandpaper is named Wet-or-Dry! It can be used dry. Water is used to extend the life of the paper as it floats away the dust that would clog the paper up. I use Wet or Dry paper starting with 400 grit thru 5000 grit on all my pens with no problems. Would love to have you at our next IAP meeting in June at the Woodcraft store in Alpharetta. Not sure of date, PM me for exact date.

Ben
 

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,084
Location
NJ, USA.
Hi Neighbor,
I live just down the road from you, well maybe a little further, Tucker. You have gotten some good answers for your problems. I will expound a little if I may. First, I suspect you may have picked up the black from your 600 grit paper hitting the bushings. Jttheclockman is very knowledgeable, but the black sandpaper is named Wet-or-Dry! It can be used dry. Water is used to extend the life of the paper as it floats away the dust that would clog the paper up. I use Wet or Dry paper starting with 400 grit thru 5000 grit on all my pens with no problems. Would love to have you at our next IAP meeting in June at the Woodcraft store in Alpharetta. Not sure of date, PM me for exact date.

Ben

My very first line was MY OPINION. I stick with my thoughts on that automotive sandpaper should not be used on bare wood.

Everyone has their own method and I gave mine. Take it for what you paid for it. :) Good luck.


Some good reading from one of the gurus in the finishing world. Sanding a board or sanding and finishing a wood pen are the same things.

www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/rules_for_sanding_wood


The OP asked about woodworkers 600 grit sandpaper other than black. Here you go

www.amazon.com/Sungold-Abrasives-11...464577663&sr=8-11&keywords=600+grit+sandpaper
 
Last edited:

Jimos

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Messages
20
Location
Hiawassee GA
:good::good:All good JT. I appreciate your feedback and opinions. The cool thing about a forum like IAP is the diversity of knowledge. I just really appreciate those who have taken the time to share their insight with a guy who has been struggling. Much gratitude to all who have taken the time to comment.
 

leehljp

Member Liaison
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
9,314
Location
Tunica, Mississippi,
Welcome! One additional comment (from me) on the black sandpaper. I have run into black sandpaper that is not for automotive but just black cheap general sandpaper meant for people who are not familiar with good sandpaper. I got some from my local small town store once (years ago) and it flaked as well as colored the wood, and I wasn't using it wet. I threw it away. This type of black paper is not the quality of automotive black sandpaper.

One reason pen turning is kinda known as a "money pit" :biggrin: is that the cheapest way usually shows up as problems in the finished product. Trying to get by with what is on hand or the cheapest of tools or finish, or glue or sandpaper will find us out. I am not trying to sound like an "elitist" by any means, but NOT using the dollar store variety by any means, and using at least one level up in quality of the smaller things really pays off in the finished product in pen turning.

The white - sanding dust.

Roughing gouge - you mentioned grinder. I rarely ever went from the grinder/sharpener straight to turning. If you watch videos of the best of turners, they will generally tell you that even with a tormek, chisels work best with hand honing after using even the best of grinders. Hand honing means using a strop or swiping the edge across 600 - 1000 grit or higher quality sandpaper for a finer edge and then stropping it once or twice more. These practices takes 1 minute more at best and produces much finer and easier cuts, and tend to reduce catches.

The slower one turns, the sharper the tool needs to be. Turning speed is always a debatable subject, but the slower speed does produce more catches unless one is VERY firm with the hand grip of the chisel that has a honed cutting edge. Taking smaller bites helps considerably.
 
Last edited:

t001xa22

Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
441
Location
Arlington, TX
Jim, welcome to this great group; you will never regret it. One additional note I would add to the wealth of info offered: learning the skill of applying the skewing action will work on other tools in addition to the skew itself. I use a carbide cutter made by one of our highly skilled members, and I use the technique of addressing the material at an angle as I would the skew. This approach has saved many of my more sensitive pieces from damage as I shape and profile. I will transition over to my actual skew as I near the final cuts of the material. As stated previously, it takes quite a while to perfect the skewing technique, but it is so worth the effort. I wish you the best of luck as you move forward in this fantastic craft.
 

Jimos

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Messages
20
Location
Hiawassee GA
Man. Floored by the help from folks obviously passionate about their craft. And a little intimidated. Thanks to all that have shared. Best, Jim
 
Top Bottom