Amazed Wood User

[peyote]

Hello all, am a new guest. Not a pen turner, but am a creative wood user. I was finally clued in about this I.A. when I asked the right woodworker about the amazing images of stabilized wood I was seeing. http://www.penturners.org/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif

Here's where I'd love to pick your brains. Can I use the cactus juice/vacuum stabilizing method as a finish; not as just stabilizer before tooling?

I sculpt (i guess) in wood, the biggest being about 3' x 3'. Never been satisfied with hand rubbed tung/danish. This acrylic replacement has me excited for both the color & the strength it would give "spindlier" ideas.

Appreciate in advance any experience you all are willing to share with a fellow creative wood pusher.

 

[Haynie]

Hello, welcome. No clue what the answer would be.

 

[hunter-27]

PM Curtis ( MesquiteMan )the resident expert.

 

[Ligget]

Welcome aboard!

 

[robutacion]

Well, there are 4 things that I see immediately that would have to be address, one is the vacuum chamber size, vacuum pump and oven required to accommodate such large volume pieces and the one that would certainly be significant is, the volume of Cactus Juice you would need to fill such large capacity chamber...!

If you are considering using colours, you would require enough Juice to fill the chamber (with the wood piece on, off-course) of each colour you would use so, that would be a phenomenal amount of juice to be invested on.

As for the juice as a finish...! I don't thing so...! different woods will react slightly differently to exposure and curing in this special resin but most will create a dry skin of excess juice that will be expelled while cooking. This results in patches with this dry resin at its (wood) surface while other areas will be all soaked in.

One of the common and not so nice result of wood stabilization is "nasty" look of the wood after the process is completed, only after sanding and then coating the whole surface with a wood enhancer, such as varnishes, etc, the wood looks clean and with its grain visible so, not the results you are trying to achieve, I'm afraid.

You would get better results with spraying the wood, with the "coating" material, colored or not...!

However, if the wood of light density or is punky or have soft spots that would would like preserved/hardened, weather strengthen etc. then. stabilization would be a great advantage...!

I have been working with wood for a few decades, and isn't much of a wood finish/product that I haven't used, wood stabilization is a new process to me but I'm on my 10th gallon of juice in about 6 months so, I have stabilized already, a "bit" of wood...!

I would most certainly like to hear Curtis (the Cactus Juice man) opinion on the issue, as he has been doing wood stabilization for a lot longer then me and we learn something new every day...!

PS: Sorry, welcome to IAP...!

Cheers
George

 

[PenMan1]

Cactus Juice is MesquiteMan's trademarked product. If anybody here can answer your question, it would be Curtis. AND besides making TERIFFIC products, he's a pretty great fellow.... If you like that whole bald-headed Texan kinda thing

Seriously, Curtis IS THE GUY, and he's always been very prompt with answering questions. I'll bet he'd be happy to hear from you.

 

[PenMan1]

AND.... welcome aboard Peyote! Are you a recreational user, or a professional?

 

[peyote]

Thanks so much for such quick feedback (I may have to rethink my aversion to Facebook)!

Is it possible for me to invite MesquiteMan to this thread?

 

[PenMan1]

Thanks so much for such quick feedback (I may have to rethink my aversion to Facebook)!

Is it possible for me to invite MesquiteMan to this thread?

He's the moderator of this forum, he'll see it. BUT with building beginning to boom in Texas, I understand he is OGEATM (otherwise gainfully employed at the moment). I'd send him a Private Message.

 

[Bowl Slinger]

A warm welcome from the Evergreen State!

 

[peyote]

semi-pro i guess. I used to sell when i was younger (20 years ago), started doing things again a bout a year ago.

 

[SDB777]

Welcome aboard!!!!



Scott B

 

[rherrell]

Welcome!

 

[peyote]

robutacion:"only after sanding and then coating the whole surface with a wood enhancer, such as varnishes, etc, the wood looks clean and with its grain visible" - I'm thinking I could use a flap wheel type thing & buff out the resinated surface??

 

[peyote]

robutacion:"only after sanding and then coating the whole surface with a wood enhancer, such as varnishes, etc, the wood looks clean and with its grain visible" - I'm thinking I could use a flap wheel type thing & buff out the resinated surface??

 

[robutacion]

robutacion:"only after sanding and then coating the whole surface with a wood enhancer, such as varnishes, etc, the wood looks clean and with its grain visible" - I'm thinking I could use a flap wheel type thing & buff out the resinated surface??

Yes you can but, I though you were trying to void all the extra sanding and polishing, as in carvings many crevasses are tight and hard to reach, there is also the possibility that while removing the extra dried juice with tools that cut/sand that, you damage or alter the original features/shapes of the piece.

I'm trying to work out why you would want to stabilize the wood however, if that is absolutely necessary, the way to do it is stabilizing the whole wood blank BEFORE you start working on it, this way, you have a plasticized wood that is hard but perfectly workable. I'm not sure how the stabilized wood behaves with a wood chisel but, I can tell you that, stabilized wood no longer produces chips/shavings but very fine sawdust, instead.

This can be OK with the use of electrical sanding tools however I strongly recommend you to use a good face/breathing mask as the fine dust is not good for the lungs...!

Carving stabilized wood, would require very little finish, a simply polish with a wool/polishing wheel, would produce acceptable results while the wood is much more protected against the "elements"

Hope this helps...!

Cheers
George

 

[robutacion]

------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes it does help; thanks to both of you!

I like the stabilizer idea because of some of the images I've seen. The colors & sheen looked amazing. I'm starting to think it might be more practical for the smaller pieces to add "heft" & strengthen things that would normally be to brittle to do in wood. Or maybe to selectively stabilize sections of larger pieces.

Can you achieve those same vivid almost psychadelic effects through just normal dyes?

While private messages content should not be put in a public forum, I believe this one went in there when it should be have been in here, its contents are a continuation of the discussion that, we are having here so, everyone should be able to see it and learn something from it...!

Anyway, I'm not so sure if I know what you call "vivid" and "psychedelic" colours, and where you seen them on stabilized wood, I wonder if you are confusing the whole issue with Acrylics casts...!

It would be great if you could show us a pic of something that looks the way you describe it, that way we would know and be able to provide a better answer.

 

[Wright]

Welcome

 

[peyote]

Appreciate the feedback

Thanks Rubicon, I think I've attached some images. Still getting familiar with this great site.

 

[peyote]

Er, Sorry I meant Robutacion

I believe those are all acrylic stabilized Maple.

A relative is going to be having a Silver Maple (soft maple) cut down. From my experience, it is a rather bland wood when finished with Tung/Linseed/Danish Oils.

Those images are what led me to I.A. Penturners. Most of the woodworkers I talked with had no idea what the hell I was talking about!

 

[peyote]

Here's Some More

 

[robutacion]

OK, right now I know what you are talking about...!

Well, lets simplify things a little by giving you a short description of what you have shown us in those pics.

*- Wood when, properly stabilized (impregnated with hardening resin) becomes "plasticized" as the wood cells had its water/moisture replaced with a liquid plastic/acrylic, this is why you can produce shavings when cutting/turning it but, fine powder...!

*- Stabilizer solution can be used as is, (clear/light yelowish) or with proper dyes, they can be used repeated times (called double or triple dying) in the wood, using various methods to achieve it however, is the wood type and grain that will determine the final results. In your pics, you have the common BYB with single and double dyes and also some variation of curly and fiddleback grain woods that, on they own, produce half of the effect.

So, in resume, not all woods can be stabilized, not all woods are soft enough to allow resin and colours penetration, and not all woods produce the same result...!

*- Finally, we have the combination of wood that is stabilized (clear or with colour) and also cast with resin (1 of 2 types) to fill areas missing of that piece of wood, that can be done to mach any colour used on the stabilization resin, that is the case on one of your green samples (pic) or with a totally different colour, that is the case on one of your green samples (pic).

I believe that, Curtis (MesquiteMan) has provided you with some information via the PM system, is a shame that he didn't made his info public so that, we all would read what are his opinions about an issue that involves him directly (Cactus Juice experience), I certainly mention that I would like to know is "take" on the issue so, you may request permission to Curtis to copy and past the content of his PM('s), something that should have been dealt with differently, in my opinion unless, I got the wrong perception/interpretation from one of your last PM's to me, and Curtis never did contact you about this, if that is the case, I apologize for my comments...!

Cheers
George

 

[peyote]

Beautiful, thank you

Yes. You seem to have the same sight of what this could go to.

Plastic + the beauty of wood.

I'm looking at creating the color & stability. Old & listening to 2112

 

[Hexhead]

Welcome aboard.