New Poll - When should photos of contest entries be posted?

[mbroberg]

Please take a look at the discussion in this thread, as well as any that occurs here before voting.​

 

[gallianp]

This poll should not be hidden also! I know you told me last time that this was your poll and you will do as you like! (and you did)!

 

[mbroberg]

Gonna keep it hidden this time too....:tongue: (Reason hasn't changed)

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I'll start the discussion. This bash people mentioned that there wasn't much banter. Others mentioned there wasn't much to banter about when there wasn't any pens able to be viewed. On the other hand once a pen is submitted anyone entering the contest can now see where the bar is set and decide to enter or not.
When I set up the rules for the edible pen contest I wanted to keep it casual and less restrictive. I did expect one "knock it way out of the park" kind of pen and that is partially why I had 4 prizes. Pens were posted as they were made because I thought that when they were seen it would make more people enter.
I think it partially comes down to what kind of contests are these. If they are serious bring your best and this isn't for fun this is a competition type contest then seeing and judging all at once is the most fair. If it is more of a do your best and lets see what happens kind of thing then seeing what is entered as it is made is more fun and friendly. Either way I'm in to help out next year.

 

[Smitty37]

Sheesh Mike, You trying to line up a job with Gallup you're taking more polls than they took in the election cycle.

 

[Ed McDonnell]

I wonder how many of the people voting in all the latest polls actually submitted a pen to any of the contests? I wonder how many who didn't submit a pen would have submitted a pen if the rules were different?

I suspect the number of people who submit pens will not depend on what the rules are (within reason). Asking the larger population who hasn't / won't actively participate to vote on the rules seems a waste to me.

I voted for let the person running the contest decide. Whatever they decide is unlikely to change the participation rate. But at least someone who feels strongly that things should be different can volunteer to run a contest and do things differently. I suspect nobody would want to be holding their breath waiting for new volunteers though.....


Ed

 

[mbroberg]

Sheesh Mike, You trying to line up a job with Gallup you're taking more polls than they took in the election cycle.

This is about the Bash Smitty. This is far more important than any political election. The outcome here actually means something!!!

Actually I thought I was done but then someone wanted just one more poll!!!

 

[hunter-27]

But at least someone who feels strongly that things should be different can volunteer to run a contest and do things differently. I suspect nobody would want to be holding their breath waiting for new volunteers though.....

:good:

 

[76winger]

I had PM'd my thoughts to Mike on the last poll, and gave permission to publish them. I PM'd them mostly because I thought that was what he asked for over the open discussion, not because I didn't want to share with everyone. My thoughts "from the horses mouth" as they say:

"On the question of posting photos as they come in or not for the contest, I think keeping the entries hidden until time for the voting to begin is a good process. However it might be a good idea to post the prior years entries as "inspiration" for everyone considering an entry."

To enhance upon that opinion in light of the additional question in this poll, I also believe whichever way you choose, it should be uniform for all the contests. One set of rules (at least concerning photo posting) should apply to all contests, just for the simple sake of uniformity and not making things any more complicated than necessary.

I further believe showing submissions from the prior year in the announcement of the beginning of the yearly contest would give everyone sufficient inspiration for the upcoming contest. And keeping all contest submissions "secret" until no more can be made and the voting begins gives the early submitters security from attempts of oneupsmanship simply because their entry was up for display in time for others to try to outdo them from the bar they set. Posting of the prior years entries should sufficiently and equally set the bar for all.

 

[Brooks803]

I have strong feelings on this. This go around I voted for letting the chairs decide. The way I see it is that if you only post pictures at the end of the contests then there is NOTHING to intrest people as far as contests go. Sure there's trivia and other games, but other than those you're basically boiling down bash fun into 1 day....the day a contest ENDS. Then they're put into a poll and a few days later are gone. Then after the bash ends we get to see who made what. I just can't see the fun in that. The argument is being made that if someone see's an awesome entry before sending in theirs that they're just not going to enter. That can't be helped. That same person will just be saying the exact same thing even if they're all shown at the same time. They'll just say "darn...I should have never entered, now look what I'm up against.". It won't end just bc there's a rule.

And I do think there will be the need for more volunteer chairs next year if there is a madatory rule in place.

 

[Smitty37]

A personal opinion - I think this is much ado over nothing - I really don't think it is going to make a whole lot of difference either way. I also don't think it will make a whole lot of difference whether or not the contests are all the same.

As a sponsor - I'd prefer seeing the photos as they come in but I'm willing to leave that up to the manager of the contest. It also seems to me that if you happen to get one contest which happens to get a lot of entries - say 50 0r 60, holding all the photos back to post at the same time could become a can of worms.

 

[Buzzzz4]

I as well am a proponent of leaving it up to the chair of the contest. IAP is about personalities and how we interact. It is what keeps this place human and fun. Having variety in the contests is very important to keep things less sterile. We shouldn't take ourselves too seriously and not enter contests because someone posted a pen we think we can't beat.

Allowing the chair to set the pace also gives the VOLUNTEER chair the ability and flexibility to run things as they see fit. Stating at the beginning how it will go will also add to the transparency. If a contest has photos posted as they come in, and you don't like that, then submit your pen in the final days of the contest.

Keep it simple and have fun.

Also, Thank you Mike for being open and looking out for the best interests of the majority. I am always here to help even when I don't like the outcome of a poll.

 

[hunter-27]

It also seems to me that if you happen to get one contest which happens to get a lot of entries - say 50 0r 60, holding all the photos back to post at the same time could become a can of worms.

I don't know what can of worms you speak of but it is certainly a PITA when it happens. :biggrin: But hey it was my choice to do so, I was not prepared for 50 entries. :frown:

 

[mbroberg]

The way I see it is that if you only post pictures at the end of the contests then there is NOTHING to intrest people as far as contests go. Sure there's trivia and other games, but other than those you're basically boiling down bash fun into 1 day....the day a contest ENDS.

Just an FYI, next year, regardless of how this turns out, I hope to stagger the contests to allow for some to end near the beginning of the month and some to last until later in the month. Announcing contest rules prior to the actual beginning of the Bash worked out well this year. It gave some people a little extra time to work on their entries. Rules for some of the more basic contests could be published early January or late December which would allow for pens to be entered and shown for voting in the first or second week of the actual Bash. In fact, the first contest of the 2014 Bash will be announced surprisingly soon.

The point is, if the membership were to say, "hold the photos until the end of the contest(s)" we still have flexibility to determine when the end of the contest(s) will be.

 

[mbroberg]

If you have ANY preference about how and when contest entry photos are posted make sure you vote in this poll. So far it's really close, but it is early. Remember, the Bash is for the members, so let us know what YOU want.

 

[mbroberg]

Let us know if you have a preference.

Sent from my DROID4 using Forum Runner

 

[Smitty37]

Why not consider giving the members a period of time submit their name and their intention to enter first then after that time closes, start accepting entries and posting the pictures as they come in.

Let judges decide who gets into the final group then post those pictures together and let the voting take place.

 

[Bob Wemm]

The way I see it is that if you only post pictures at the end of the contests then there is NOTHING to intrest people as far as contests go. Sure there's trivia and other games, but other than those you're basically boiling down bash fun into 1 day....the day a contest ENDS.

Just an FYI, next year, regardless of how this turns out, I hope to stagger the contests to allow for some to end near the beginning of the month and some to last until later in the month. Announcing contest rules prior to the actual beginning of the Bash worked out well this year. It gave some people a little extra time to work on their entries. Rules for some of the more basic contests could be published early January or late December which would allow for pens to be entered and shown for voting in the first or second week of the actual Bash. In fact, the first contest of the 2014 Bash will be announced surprisingly soon.

""Mike, I think this is the best idea that has come out of this whole series of discussions. There has to be be things happening throughout the BASH, to keep members involved and interested.
I understand and agree with the arguments about posting the entries all at the same time, pens and photos are all the same, but something has to happen during the month, beside the Trivia, puzzles and any other daily contests.
By staggering the contests there will be activity right the way through.""

The point is, if the membership were to say, "hold the photos until the end of the contest(s)" we still have flexibility to determine when the end of the contest(s) will be.

IMHO. Bob.

 

[jeweler53]

I did not have any interest in entering most of the contests, but waiting until the end meant that there was little or no chance to look at the entries. I would have liked that opportunity. I also might have been more interested in entering if I could have seen "where the bar was set".

With inflation my 2 cents is probably about a nickle now.

 

[Smitty37]

I did not have any interest in entering most of the contests, but waiting until the end meant that there was little or no chance to look at the entries. I would have liked that opportunity. I also might have been more interested in entering if I could have seen "where the bar was set".

With inflation my 2 cents is probably about a nickle now.

Only a nickel? Probably more like a dollar.

 

[mbroberg]

I suspect that some members are confusing this issue with the issue of nothing to look at during the first part of the Bash. They believe that if all the photos are posted at the same time, once the contest ends, that there will be nothing to do during the first part of the Bash. That is a separate issue. Scheduling contests differently, so that they end staggered throughout the Bash will solve that problem. Scheduling the contests differently so that they end at staggered times throughout the Bash is something I am already going to do regardless of how this poll turns out.

What this issue is about is getting as many people as possible to enter the contests and to give those who do enter a fair shot at competing. Is the voting fairer if all the entries have equal time in the public view or not? Does posting entries as they come in give the photos that are posted earlier and spend more time in the spotlight, an adcvantage over those that are posted later? Does posting pictures as they come in run the risk of discouraging members from entering or would it encourage them to enter?

As I have said before, I am neutral on the issue. I will do it anyway the majority of members, who care to vote, tell me to do it. But please stay focused on the actual issue. Don't read things into it that are not there. This questions really has nothing to do with there being nothing to look at during the first weeks of the Bash. In fact, as one example, the first contest of the 2014 Bash will be a CCC, announced in the next few weeks and it will end on or near February 1, the first day of the Bash.

If anyone is confused or unsure as to what is being asked here, regardless of what your position on the issue may be, please post your question here or PM me. I don't care what your answer to the poll question is, as long as the answer is to THIS question.

 

[mbroberg]

Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin. The results of the poll indicate that of the people who cared enough about the issue to vote, most want contest photos displayed all at the same time. I don't think that the seven vote difference between option 1 and option 3 is really statistically significant. What I think is more significant is how few people, as indicated in both polls ran on this issue, want the photos displayed as they come in. The lead that option 1 had in the first poll is very statistically significant. I also think that some (not all, but some) of the votes for option 3 in the latest poll are members saying, "I really don't care, what ever you want to do is fine with me".

There are some strong opinions against doing it the way the majority of voters want. It's fantastic that people will speak out in favor of procedures that they believe will make the IAP even better than it already is. I don't think I've seen any concerns, that actually relate to this issue, that can't be dealt with favorably. Even issues that don't relate to this issue can be dealt with. If anyone wants to discuss it with me shoot me a PM. If you would rather actually discuss it let me know and I'll give you my number. I really think that some people are going to be presently surprised and there is a lot of worrying going on for nothing. Keep the faith folks, please.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Tom T]

Mike,
Great job thank you.
As a fairly new member I was a sleep on the switch in regards to the bash. I had no idea what it really was, what the contests were about. So the idea of giving me plenty of time to make a pen is good. I have not had time to turn anything in 5-6 weeks. I have a busy day job. So getting the contest out early would be very good for me to even try to get a pen ready. I do not expect to win because I never do, there is always some one better than me. Okay may be 10-20 people better than me. But it would be fun to be in a contest. Plus I have the advantage of some very cool blanks from John U. If I can turn them they have to look real good. The bash was great.
One thing tell people to use there desk top computers when looking at the bash. The iPad does not give you a full view.