Lost Wax Casting Clips and CBs - ACTIVITY THREAD

[LEAP]

Thanks guys, got my design drawn out going to make my first attack on the wax tomorrow.

 

[mredburn]

Take no prisoners, show no mercy.:biggrin:

 

[wade45]

Is this thing still going? If so I have a question regarding types of wax I could use. I have alot of bees wax and was wondering if that would work? I know that jewelers wax is cheap thanks to Mike but why spend the money if I don't have to?

 

[mredburn]

Wade, Bees wax would be usable if you were to invest and the model yourself or could have it done locally where you have some control over the handleing of it.. The problem with bees wax is its so soft that the shape you make would be distorted or sag or even be destroyed from handling and shipping. Since other people are going to be casting this piece for you it would be best to use a harder wax. Parifin will work but wont hold the detail as well as the FIle a waxes.

 

[BRobbins629]

Is this thing still going? If so I have a question regarding types of wax I could use. I have alot of bees wax and was wondering if that would work? I know that jewelers wax is cheap thanks to Mike but why spend the money if I don't have to?

Still alive, but very quiet considering the original interest.

 

[LEAP]

I have not given up! just too damn busy. Got a centerband done and clip roughed out. Hard to get them finished when I'm spending all my time in airplanes and hotels.

 

[DrPepper8412]

Bruce,

Can I use one of my two for a necklace pendant? Obviously I'd be paying you for the material etc, but I don't have access to my crucible/centerfuge etc at the moment, being out of state. Any way we can make that happen?

 

[BRobbins629]

Bruce,

Can I use one of my two for a necklace pendant? Obviously I'd be paying you for the material etc, but I don't have access to my crucible/centerfuge etc at the moment, being out of state. Any way we can make that happen?

Absolutely yes.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

The only chuck I have for my lathe is a drill chuck. Would it still be possible to make the necessary parts to cast for a pen?

 

[BRobbins629]

The only chuck I have for my lathe is a drill chuck. Would it still be possible to make the necessary parts to cast for a pen?

It may take a little ingenuity, but I would say yes. Post what you want to make including some dimensions, and lets see if we can come up with a plan.

 

[Laurenr]

I am a dental technician and have been casting metal for 44 years, nearly every day. Although I haven't cast any pen parts, I would be happy to pitch in with answers to any technical questions you all might have regarding waxes, expansion, finishing etc.

My first suggestion for all of you is to befriend a dental tech or a jewelry maker. ;-) For us, most of this is as routine as shaving in the morning.

I hope I can help.

Lauren

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I only started to really think about this last night. I'm thinking click pen if possible using or 8MM tubes or something in that general size perhaps single tube. Nib, something between straight taper and rounded taper not sure about it yet. Clip, a lot like your native american axe handle round or square with a cord wrapped around the bottom. The final or centerband maybe a ring with a cord wrapped up the inside and down the outside maybe slightly flattened so the cord is not quite so round. Clicker would have a matching wrap like the clip that would push down to the final when fully depressed. This would be my daily driver and that is why I would like a thinner pen that is a click pen. I think I could do it but I have never tried something like this before. Does anybody know where to get a reliable click mechanism and how one would go about turning it into a pen?

 

[DrPepper8412]

Bruce,

Can I use one of my two for a necklace pendant? Obviously I'd be paying you for the material etc, but I don't have access to my crucible/centerfuge etc at the moment, being out of state. Any way we can make that happen?

Absolutely yes.

Wonderful, thank you! I'll be sure and send you a message as soon as I've gotten it carved out.

 

[BRobbins629]

I only started to really think about this last night. I'm thinking click pen if possible using or 8MM tubes or something in that general size perhaps single tube. Nib, something between straight taper and rounded taper not sure about it yet. Clip, a lot like your native american axe handle round or square with a cord wrapped around the bottom. The final or centerband maybe a ring with a cord wrapped up the inside and down the outside maybe slightly flattened so the cord is not quite so round. Clicker would have a matching wrap like the clip that would push down to the final when fully depressed. This would be my daily driver and that is why I would like a thinner pen that is a click pen. I think I could do it but I have never tried something like this before. Does anybody know where to get a reliable click mechanism and how one would go about turning it into a pen?

I've made quite a few pens, but for some reason never a click. Perhaps some others who have will chime in with ideas. In any event, if I were to try what you are describing, I would try to prototype the pen with wax parts and see how they look. Be careful not to make them too heavy. Silver weight 10 times what wax does. Keep us posted on your progress. A few pictures might solicit some more ideas.

 

[Glenn McCullough]

Bruce,
I have my wax and will be working on something today. I am behind because I have had many xmas gifts and orders to fill. I am still very much alive and interested. The hard part is I have had many ideas thinking " why dont they make a kit that looks like this (idea in my head) but now that I have a "blank canvas" I am having trouble deciding on what I want to make it look like. Making the wax look like the idea in my head and how it will make up in silver is not as easy as first envisioned. Getting a design in the wax is another challenge...wish had a laser engraver. Wait! I could have the design laser engraved in the band after the cast is complete...hello!

 

[mredburn]

I made a click using the Sierra style design. I used a click mechanism from a gel pen kit I bought from wood n whimsies. if you use that kit the click mechanism attaches to the activating piece using a standard 4mm thread tap. I chose this kit as it gives me 8mm tubes and an 8mm tranny connector. In designing your click you will have to figure out where your going to put the piece that allows you to change the refill when it comes time. The Sierra threaded piece worked well because it is hidden in the tube.

Hope that is some help

Glen, design has always been the single most difficult thing that I have to do. The mechanics of making it is easier to learn and just requires practice. design require inspiration.

Mike

 

[BRobbins629]

Glenn (and others) - This activity is only to give you a taste of the process. There are plenty of opportunities to improve. For me it sometimes takes 3 or 4 iterations until I get it where I want it. If I'm lucky, the iterations are all in wax. This week, I ruined 3 or 4 silver clips due to a weak section that I should have known better. After 2 more iterations in wax, I think I have a much better piece. For me the process is no different from many of my pens. I don't think there is any one that I like that I got right the first time.

 

[mredburn]

wax clips

I have 3 wax clips I'm working on, I thought I would share them with you to show some of what is possible. I will let you know up front these I made with a cnc machine, the first picture shows a puzzle clip I'm developing, the green wax is a flat clip with a 5mm ball at the end and on the right a clip to inlay a larger piece into.

The puzzle clip has 7 seperate pieces inlaid into it. The widest is 4.5mm the smallest is 2.5mm wide. These are made up of pieces of left over pen blank material. Except for the 3rd piece which is synthetic opal. the third picture shows the scale and an extra piece of puzzle cut in opal. I will re cut all the pieces in opal before I'm finished.

The next set of pictures are a revisit of a clip I made carving the wax, With Bruce's Permission I am reposting them.
Image is of a clip I had made and cast previously and 2 pieces of wax that will make a larger model than the one that was cast already.

The snake has been roughed out with a file the cylinder will become the upper body that forms the finial.
Picture 2 shows the 2 pieces welded together. I use a wax pen which is a fancy name for a soldering iron with a rheostat.

The third picture shows the rough carving of the snake, I have started to draw where I want the diamonds on the body.

Next we have the scales pattern scratched onto the body

finally the finished carving ready to go to into the casting process and the cast snake prior to clean up.

 

[LEAP]

Thats awesome Mike, I'm working on a lighthouse clip. I originally cut it from a flat piece of wax but the symmetry is a little off so Im thinking of turning the basic shape round then splitting it length wise to get two pieces to work with. This would be so much easier on a metal lathe than doing freehand.

 

[mredburn]

Here are the cast pieces.

I have washed off the investment but have not done any clean up of the metal yet. the pieces fit right in. The piece sticking out the top is the sprue. It is where the metal enters the cavity left by the wax. it will have to be cut off, filed and finished. the rest of the piece will get a light tumbling and then inspected to determine final finishing.

This last picture is of one of the other clips, the one on the right is the purple wax clip in the previous pictures.

Mike

 

[BRobbins629]

Thats awesome Mike, I'm working on a lighthouse clip. I originally cut it from a flat piece of wax but the symmetry is a little off so Im thinking of turning the basic shape round then splitting it length wise to get two pieces to work with. This would be so much easier on a metal lathe than doing freehand.

You may have trouble splitting this, but there's no reason why you couldn't file away one half. Wax is pretty easy to file.

 

[BRobbins629]

Its been about 6 weeks since the start of this. In mid January, I plan to send out a batch of wax for casting.

If you are still interested in joining this casting session, please contact me before then by post or pm. If its a matter of a few days one way or another, I can wait so don't rush your project. If you think it will take significantly longer, there may be other options.

If you originally showed interest and are having difficulty and need help, there are several of us available by post or pm.

 

[LEAP]

Thats awesome Mike, I'm working on a lighthouse clip. I originally cut it from a flat piece of wax but the symmetry is a little off so Im thinking of turning the basic shape round then splitting it length wise to get two pieces to work with. This would be so much easier on a metal lathe than doing freehand.

You may have trouble splitting this, but there's no reason why you couldn't file away one half. Wax is pretty easy to file.

thats a good idea I had not thought of that. thanks

 

[mbroberg]

Its been about 6 weeks since the start of this. In mid January, I plan to send out a batch of wax for casting.

If you are still interested in joining this casting session, please contact me before then by post or pm. If its a matter of a few days one way or another, I can wait so don't rush your project. If you think it will take significantly longer, there may be other options.

If you originally showed interest and are having difficulty and need help, there are several of us available by post or pm.

I have the wax, just not the time. I may have to explore those, "other options".:wink:

 

[Jerryconn]

I'm in the same boat. No time. . I had several to get done before Christmas. Still have 2 left. got a reprieve on them. ( the storm threw a kink in customer's plans Whew!). Anyway I have not had much time to even think about my design much less work on it. Like Mike I may look at the other options. Is this something that can be done on a infrequent basis, maybe every 2 to 3 months? Just asking.

 

[BRobbins629]

Jerry, Mike and others - Yes there will be other times that I will cast and perhaps others can offer casting services as well. I would be more than happy to include your pieces if the timing is right. The other option is to send pieces off yourselves directly to a caster with the only issue being there can be a minimum order quantity. Generally its not very high, but its more than 1 or 2 pieces. Or a group can get together just like a group buy. Given the initial high interest, I had really hoped that this would be a group event and that with enough folks interested, we could all learn from each other. In six weeks, however, it looks like only one or two have made any real progress based on posts.

I and others stand ready and willing to help whenever people are ready. I still plan on sending out a batch in mid January for anyone who is ready.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Bruce, if others were like me I was so busy the last 6 weeks getting ready for the last of the shows,Christmas and then the last two weeks have Christmas both week ends for relatives that came from different states both week ends... Now I have to go the Florida on the 8th of January:frown:... I need 36 hour days,8day weeks and 40day months:wink://But I WILL get a clip done .....just don't know when.

 

[broitblat]

Its been about 6 weeks since the start of this. In mid January, I plan to send out a batch of wax for casting.

If you are still interested in joining this casting session, please contact me before then by post or pm. If its a matter of a few days one way or another, I can wait so don't rush your project. If you think it will take significantly longer, there may be other options.

If you originally showed interest and are having difficulty and need help, there are several of us available by post or pm.

Well, it looks like I'm not gonna' make it :frown:

Let's just say it's been a learning experience and I'll have to get some more wax before I try again.

-Barry

 

[BRobbins629]

Well, it looks like I'm not gonna' make it :frown:

Let's just say it's been a learning experience and I'll have to get some more wax before I try again.

-Barry

At least wax is relatively cheap! Thanks for the attempt. Learning is what this exercise is all about.

For those with better luck I still plan on sending a batch out in a few weeks or so. For the rest who are still interested, and if you decide to try again, we will figure something out. Maybe the price of silver will come down a little (I hope).

 

[LEAP]

Mid January you say? so that goves me about a week to get it in the mail for you. might make it. Progress so far? centerband for a slim sized done (mostly) clip rough turned now to refine the shape sand it down to half diameter then carve it. Hopefully I can get done this weekend. Buisness has been good the last month but seriously getting in the way of my hobbies!

 

[LEAP]

Hey Bruce,
Is there a trick to making the ring for a clip? I'm having a bear of a time with it. the damn things keep breaking. about the only variable I have not tried is bring the wax inside and heating it up to 70 or so as the shop is around 60. I've tried working with 1/4" thick and 1/8", the pieces are just to brittle. The thicker is hard to get the round formed and the thinner too fragile. I'm taking a break from the wax before the frustration factor gets too high. the next thing I'm to try is to turn a piece to the OD then drill the tube size, slice off a piece, then melt a flat piece on to the side for the tab. Thinking back I should have tried this first. Anyway Just needed to vent a bit before going back out to the shop. thanks,

 

[BRobbins629]

Hey Bruce,
Is there a trick to making the ring for a clip? I'm having a bear of a time with it. the damn things keep breaking. about the only variable I have not tried is bring the wax inside and heating it up to 70 or so as the shop is around 60. I've tried working with 1/4" thick and 1/8", the pieces are just to brittle. The thicker is hard to get the round formed and the thinner too fragile. I'm taking a break from the wax before the frustration factor gets too high. the next thing I'm to try is to turn a piece to the OD then drill the tube size, slice off a piece, then melt a flat piece on to the side for the tab. Thinking back I should have tried this first. Anyway Just needed to vent a bit before going back out to the shop. thanks,

Here's a picture of what I currently use for most of my clips which I tend to hide in the cap. Thickness is about .080".

In the past, I cast 2 parts and soldered them together - now I use CA to combine or melt together if I feel courageous and cast as one piece.

The process you describe should work. Jewelers melt wax pieces together all the time. Some use a wax pen, some use an alcohol lamp to heat a metal tip, and I've even used a candle to heat a metal tip and touch it briefly to the wax. I would probably practice a bit before doing to real thing, but it will work.

If you get too frustrated and want one of mine to attach I'll be glad to make one. Or sketch the dimensions and I'll cut it on the CNC. And don't worry about the timing - I'll wait for you.

 

[LEAP]

Thanks Bruce,
I've made a couple rings and sanded some flat pieces down to the same thickness. I'll try melting one together after practicing with some of the scrap I created today. If that does not work for me I'll go with the CA. I'll have to get some silver solder for attaching the ring to the back of the clip. I was pleased with how easy the wax was to drill even after turning it to the OD. Parting it of was a little trickier but out of four tries I got two good rings. I hope to get the clip pieces and a nib done tomorrow and if time allows maybe even a finial. This has been great fun, if a little frustrating at times learning to work with the wax. Please PM your address so I can send the parts your way.
Thanks again,
Phil

 

[RustySplinters]

Hey Bruce, are you still doing this? I have a certain pen in mind that I'm looking to make with staind glass so I need to make the top and cb part including threads, both of which will be triangular, and then the bottom piece will go into a brass tube. Also with the properties of silver, is it possible to solder this silver?

Michael

 

[Joe S.]

I was getting really excited about this untill I saw the date . If its still going I would like to give it a try!

 

[BRobbins629]

When I first posed the question as to who might be interested, there seemed to be at least few dozen that wanted to try. When the activity ran, only one person actually made a wax model for me to send out for casting. If any one really wants to try this, most of the information on how to make a wax model is still in the pdf at the beginning of the thread. If any one gets to the point where they have a few good models and want have some pieces cast, I can point you in the right direction. Another option is to look for local classes in jewelry making or lost wax casting. There are many around.

 

[Joe S.]

It's worth a shot! Now to get some wax...

 

[mredburn]

If you dont have a local supplier or a source already for File A Wax there is Ebay and RioGrande.com among other sources.

 

[Joe S.]

Grizzly has some blue stuff I'll try when I order there again (I might get a bigger lathe in the spring). "Machinable Wax" seems to fit the bill!

 

[mredburn]

I would advise against it, there is a difference. Machinable wax is not made for the burnout process. The jewelers who cnc wax for casting wont use it.