Bash 11 Feedback!

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mbroberg

IAP Activities Manager, Emeritus
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Bash 11 is now in the books. It will take some time to get all the prizes delivered, and we will be choosing an addition to the IAP collection but for the most part it is time to start planning for next year. That planning starts with YOU!

Please let us know what you liked, what you didn't, what we should change, what we shouldn't, what we should add, what we should get rid of, etc. We are always looking to improve.

This is not the place to post general "Great Job", "Best Bash Ever", "This Bash Stunk" or "Worse Bash Ever" messages. We do appreciate those sentiments but what we really want to know is WHY. What made it good or bad? As always, we want to improve.

Thanks in advance for your input.
 
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SDB777

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Sort of disappointed with the absence of the Russ Fairfield Contest.....
Blank making contest seemed to be missing so much.....

Everything else was sort of fun to watch. Trivia was great, as always.





Scott (hard to find the voting topics) B
 

edman2

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I liked the "Contest Votes" tab on the front page. Made it easy to keep up with the various votes. The ugly pen contest was not included since that was decided by judges rather than by votes. As a result I missed that entire contest until it was over. I guess I need to pay more attention! :eek:) The best library article contest was also absent from that tab. I think it would be better if all contests were included under the tab.

Liked what Jeff did with the order of voting in the donation drawing even though I have never found a random number generator that knows my name! :eek:)

One of the best Bash celebrations I remember in my eight years on the forum. Thanks guys.
 

Cmiles1985

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It seems there are only so many ways to make a bullet pen. I only had four entries in the Cartridge Pen Contest. One of two things: people aren't that excited about cartridge pens, or I should have promoted it further.
The other contest I ran was the Kit Pen Contest. Despite the fact that there were 17 entries, I think people were looking too much into it. As my opinion (others may vary drastically), these contests should be replaced next year. Perhaps one should be replaced with the return of the Russ Fairfield Memorial Contest.
 

mbroberg

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I liked the "Contest Votes" tab on the front page. Made it easy to keep up with the various votes. The ugly pen contest was not included since that was decided by judges rather than by votes. As a result I missed that entire contest until it was over. I guess I need to pay more attention! :eek:) The best library article contest was also absent from that tab. I think it would be better if all contests were included under the tab.

Thanks for the observation. The Contest Votes link was intended to easily take members to the Contest Votes Forum where they could vote in the contest polls. Contests that did not require votes were not included in that forum.

There was a link to each and every contest, including Ugly Pen and Best Library Article, on the front page, in a box titled "Contests" that is located right beneath the Contest Votes Link.
 

stonepecker

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central Minnesota
Loved the new 'playground' for the auctions.
I also missed the Fairfield contest.

Wishing there was more auctions or some that us broken down old wrecks can get into.

The only other thing is I wish it started 2 weeks earlier and went 2 weeks longer.

I had a great time. The planning people did a wonderful job.
I will be interested to see which new contests are here for BASH 12.
 

Sylvanite

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I only had four entries in the Cartridge Pen Contest. One of two things: people aren't that excited about cartridge pens, or I should have promoted it further.
I think that people have been gradually losing interest in cartridge pens for some time. If we continue to have a contest of a particular pen style, then perhaps we should switch to something more popular. Steampunk pens seem to be in vogue now. Although steampunk doesn't appeal to me personally, we need contests that will generate entries. For the New Contest Contest, I considered proposing "Kill this Contest" where members could decide which (if any) contest to eliminate, but then decided that low participation numbers would take care of that.

The other contest I ran was the Kit Pen Contest. Despite the fact that there were 17 entries, I think people were looking too much into it. As my opinion (others may vary drastically), these contests should be replaced next year. Perhaps one should be replaced with the return of the Russ Fairfield Memorial Contest.
I didn't enter the Kit Pen Contest because I don't use any kits that take a 3/8" tube. It did seem popular though, and I think it was a suitable replacement for the Intermediate Contest. I viewed the Limited Modification Contest as this year's version of the Russ Fairfield Memorial Pen Contest (the rules were very similar in essence). With it and the Simple Ballpoint Pen Contest (which I thought of as the new Beginner Contest), I felt 7mm tube pens were fully represented. I think if we bring back The RussF Contest, we'll need to change/replace one of those two to avoid over-saturation.

Regards,
Eric
 

mark james

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Some figures...

My addition may be a bit off, but some info:

(I did not look deeply at the miscellaneous contests or photography contests, as a quick glance seemed to show that they are popular in any variety). :) So this is only for PENS/BLANKS!

2013

Russ F. MMSC: 21
Beginner's Pen: 10
Intermediate Pen: 10
Advanced Pen: 21
Modified Pen: 13
Casting Colors: 17
Casting Tube On: 12
Casting Embedded: 10
Freestyle PEN: 10
Youth Under 14: 17
Youth 14-16: 5
Edible Pen: 16

2013 Entries: 162

2014 (10'th Aniv)

Russ F. MMSC: 32
Beginner's Pen: 36
Intermediate Pen: 37
Advanced Pen: 20
Modified Pen: 7
Casting Colors: 9
Casting Tube On: 18
Casting Embedded: 11
Freestyle Pen: 11
Youth Under 14: 9
Youth 14-16: 7
Edible Pen: 7
Antler/Horn/Bone: 17

2014 Entries: 221

2015

Kitless Pen: 10
Limited Mod Kit Pen: 8
Pen Blank Creation: 9
Cartridge Pen: 4
Kit Pen: 17
Freestyle Pen: 10
Youth Pen: 13
Antler/Horn/Bone: 8
Simple Ballpoint Pen: 26
Get It Done: 5

2015 Entries: 110


NOTE: I was barely born to IAP in 2013 and did not follow the BASH yet, so my understanding is that some of the contests were decided by "committee" and then put to a membership vote? If I have this wrong, my apologies and please correct me. I thought this might just be a starting point for more discussion of what is/was popular.
 

Sylvanite

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First off: Great Job! It was the best Bash ever! (Sorry, I just had to say it :biggrin:).
Now for some off-the-cuff thoughts:

I particularly enjoyed the new Trivia and Puzzle contest formats - both daily and overall prizes. It kept things interesting both for people who missed answers and people who won early. 2015 was the first year I played the Puzzles and this was the reason I did.

I felt things were a little more raucous and jocular than the Bash has been in years, and that was a great fun. Ed took a lot of joshing about the puzzles in good humor, and Derek really stepped up to being the Bash Jester (or perhaps scapegoat). Definitely bring them back next time!!

I was happy to see the Ugly Pen and Trash Talking contests return. They added some lighthearted fun.

I missed the Featured Pen Contest. I finally would have been eligible to compete (even though I wouldn't have stood a chance).

I missed the Mug Shot Contest too. Despite most entries being Photoshop jobs, it was a way to celebrate getting our mugs.

The Blank Contest was an interesting addition, and I learned a lot just competing in it. If it returns, I'll play again and step up my game.

The Get It Done Contest was also intriguing. Not many people entered, but I'd like to give it a try again and see if we can get the numbers up. I think it would help if the contest ran at the beginning or end of the month. I was pressed to divide my time between this entry and those for other contests.

I missed the Logo / No Rules Photo Contest. That one always seemed to spark a lot of creativity.

I liked the timing of the Library Article Contest, Trivia Contest, and Puzzle Contest. They gave us something to focus on early and late in the month.

The calendar was readily accessible, and useful for planning my time, but I think the google calendar format isn't good for reading at a glance.

I think the "pick three" voting (and its variations) worked quite well. Culling Polls and Final Polls by number of entries generally succeeded too.

Putting all the polls in their own forum kept them in view. I think a thread in each contest forum directing people to the poll for that contest would have been good too. Also, threads announcing the winners and listing all the entrants were very nice. I would have liked to have seen that in more contests.

All in all, this Bash went VERY smoothly, and I'd like to thank the planners for doing such a great job. Successes like this don't happen without a lot of behind-the-scenes work.

Sincerely,
Eric
 

toddlajoie

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I felt things were a little more raucous and jocular than the Bash has been in years, and that was a great fun. Ed took a lot of joshing about the puzzles in good humor, and Derek really stepped up to being the Bash Jester (or perhaps scapegoat). Definitely bring them back next time!!

Not that I don't agree with the majority of Eric's post (I do), I wanted to single out this comment specifically with a huge +1 for:

+1:biggrin:
 

Skewer

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Kentucky
My addition may be a bit off, but some info:

(I did not look deeply at the miscellaneous contests or photography contests, as a quick glance seemed to show that they are popular in any variety). :) So this is only for PENS/BLANKS!

2013

Russ F. MMSC: 21
Beginner's Pen: 10
Intermediate Pen: 10
Advanced Pen: 21
Modified Pen: 13
Casting Colors: 17
Casting Tube On: 12
Casting Embedded: 10
Freestyle PEN: 10
Youth Under 14: 17
Youth 14-16: 5
Edible Pen: 16

2013 Entries: 162

2014 (10'th Aniv)

Russ F. MMSC: 32
Beginner's Pen: 36
Intermediate Pen: 37
Advanced Pen: 20
Modified Pen: 7
Casting Colors: 9
Casting Tube On: 18
Casting Embedded: 11
Freestyle Pen: 11
Youth Under 14: 9
Youth 14-16: 7
Edible Pen: 7
Antler/Horn/Bone: 17

2014 Entries: 221

2015

Kitless Pen: 10
Limited Mod Kit Pen: 8
Pen Blank Creation: 9
Cartridge Pen: 4
Kit Pen: 17
Freestyle Pen: 10
Youth Pen: 13
Antler/Horn/Bone: 8
Simple Ballpoint Pen: 26
Get It Done: 5

2015 Entries: 110


NOTE: I was barely born to IAP in 2013 and did not follow the BASH yet, so my understanding is that some of the contests were decided by "committee" and then put to a membership vote? If I have this wrong, my apologies and please correct me. I thought this might just be a starting point for more discussion of what is/was popular.

This is my first BASH, so i'm curious why the changes built around the popular contests? I'm sure there was a thought process behind the change of pace - people not happy about the rules, or what?
 

Carl Fisher

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Cape Coral, FL
My feedback.

- Remove the FP and RB only limitation on kitless. I can't see any reason to exclude ballpoint or even pencil if someone were so inclined. I know of 2 for sure if not 3 ballpoints that were being worked on for the bash this year that had to be discarded once the final rules were posted.

- If there is a beginners category, I think it should be labeled as such. The simple ballpoint contest was all over the place with segmented, non-segmented, easy and difficult kits all lumped together making it difficult to vote based on any particular skill set. How do you compare a wildly segmented nevus to a single wood slimline?

- Bring back the Russ F. Slimline modification contest. That was one of the most popular by far and was instantly missed from my perspective this year.

Otherwise I think everything went great from the outside looking in. Great job to all of the organizers and sponsors this year.
 
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Brian G

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Bloomington, MN
This was my second BASH. I re-read the feeback from last year as a reminder of what might have influenced the changes for this year.

Upfront, the BASH was very kind to me this year. I entered contests solely for the fun and for pushing the limits of what I have done to this point. My purpose isn't a quest to win a prize, but that sure is a great outcome. :)

I was surprised at the few entries this year, and even more surprised that many of the SOYP pictures could have just as easily been entered in a contest. Mark James' summary above was interesting. I wonder if last year's influx of entries was a bit of an outlier. There were a bunch of people that seemed to have joined around the same time as I joined.

I liked the diversity of contests, but now I'm a little concerned that I entered some contests intended for a skill level that I've surpassed. I didn't see that any of the contests were dedicated to a skill level. The change from "Beginner," "Intermediate," and "Advanced" categories was discussed last year.

I thought the purpose of the "Kit Contest" was to have less emphasis on the blank and components and more on the fit and finish. I'm surprised that it didn't have more entries. That should have appealed to the most people because it didn't require anything other than a kit with at least one tube described as for a 3/8" hole an a blank.

I really liked the concept of the "Get It Done" contest. I was a little lucky because I had everything set up for the celtic knot because I did a demo for the MN IAP group. It wasn't a stretch to make an extra and reserve it for the contest without tipping my hand or showing it.

The "Simple Ballpoint" was another that should have appealed to anyone. I don't understand why there were not more entries.

The question of segmented or not, or having a separate contest for segmented, came up last year. I don't have a strong feeling either way, because I used a little segmenting in my entry. I feel that if somebody is going to use segmenting, then it adds a layer of exactness that needs to be considered in voting. A poorly structured, overdone, and ill-fitted segmented pen (not saying any were) is no better than an expertly executed "simple" ballpoint.

I was surprised at how few entries were in the Blank Creation contest. I wonder if people just figured that the "long hitters" would dominate, so chose not to participate. I don't think that should get in the way of entering (I did, and didn't have any grand illusions). Personally, I'd like to see Brooks, JohnU, Toni, Seamus, Simon, and a host of others square off. :biggrin: We'd probably end up with a poll of zero votes because everyone would be too stunned to manage anything other than drool on the keyboard.

Major thanks to D. Oliver, the plethora of Eds, the contest chairs, and the peanut gallery of chatterers that gave us good laughs. Without this enthusiasm I don't think the BASH would be as fun.

I enjoy the trivia and the puzzles. Don't change those. I wasn't into the wood ID contest last year, because I was typically not able to access the forum until the end of the day.

So that's the good. I can only think of one bad thing that seemed to temper early enthusiasm, but there's no need to re-hash that here. The only Ugly was the Ugly Pen contest, which was awesomely grotesque and funny.

I had a great time, and thank you all.
 

mark james

IAP Collection, Curator
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I was surprised at the few entries this year, and even more surprised that many of the SOYP pictures could have just as easily been entered in a contest. Mark James' summary above was interesting. I wonder if last year's influx of entries was a bit of an outlier. .

Hi Brian... My opinion only... I do think that the 10'th anniversary had an element of outliers. So the larger number is not un-expected. I look more for trends than events! So my take is for IAP to consider bringing back some popular contests, and scrutinize some of the regular contests and see if they really are popular. (NOTE: I have no problem with 6 entries as long as the membership appreciates the effort those 6 folks put into it, and will vote accordingly).

The fact that there were fewer entries this year is less of a concern than those VOTING!!! They represent the interested parties... (and I have not parsed those numbers this year/decade... :wink:).

I appreciate your comments! Mark
 

SDB777

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Blank making contest seemed to be missing so much.....

so much...............what?

Can you explain what the Blank Making contest was missing?



I did in the original discussion before the contest. It was either overlooked or not wanted to be looked at....

By 'lumping every blank possible into one contest', it meant that a 2x4 piece of pine would be competing against a $150 watch-parts super casting....


Categories....is what was missing.







Scott (can't find the original topic about it) B
 

Brooks803

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Scott, I'm not trying to start an argument.There's no catagory that a 2x4s worth of effort is going to show well in.

Maybe not a 2x4's worth...but possibly $1-$2 worth of oak and walnut can beat out that super watch parts blank :tongue::biggrin:....by say...29 votes :wink:

By no means am I trying to demean your work Dale! Just trying to show that a well done segment with inexpensive materials can do very well in a contest up against CNC's and casting guru's. So the lack of categories wasn't much of an issue.
 

Brooks803

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I didn't get a chance to participate much this year. To much going on that kept me away. I only got to play in 1 pen contest and that was only bc I already had the pen done and hadn't shown it yet.

I was a bit surprised at the lack of participation in some of the contests. Could it be because there wasn't a title saying beginner, intermediate, etc that people stayed away bc they thought they'd be up against the more well known turners? I'm glad that they weren't used. I'm just curious if that had an impact on participation.

I was happy with the amount of contest variation. I do think it was a bit of a faux pas to not have the Russ Fairfield contest this year. It was replaced with virtually the same exact contest....so why not just keep it in place and honor a great turner? A part of me wishes I had stuck around to chair a contest or two so I would have been able to voice my opinion in the pre-bash discussions.

Even though I wanted to enter the blank contest I was not happy at all with the manner of which it was done. I believe it should have had to be built into a pen. Not just a blank....and a blank that didn't even have to be drilled out! I'm glad that no one did this....but anyone could have bought a 1/2" dowel and slapped stuff on top of it. Having to drill and machine these blanks is just as difficult as casting/segmenting them! I think that needs to be reflected as part of the contest.

A kitless contest should include any and every form of standard pen. That includes pencils and ballpoints!

I did like how the contests didn't all end at the same time.

I've never been a fan of holding off showing entries until the end of the contests. For me it makes the bash very boring until it's half over. Sure there's trivia and puzzles...but not much else. The trash talking was a lot of fun this year so that kept things lively until some of the contests ended.
 

Ed McDonnell

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Melbourne, FL
This year I ran the blank contest. I had more than 20 blank makers express an intent to enter either in responses to the forum threads, by PM or by email. I was a little disappointed that only 9 entries actually showed up, but given the horrible weather a lot of people were dealing with this year I can understand why turnout might have suffered.

I also understand that when people are pushing themselves to a new level it doesn't always work out. I've got plenty of experience with that. If we run the blank contest again next year (and I think we should) I might suggest that we add a "nice try" consolation prize (awarded either by vote or random draw). Those members whose entries just didn't work out could still enter their flops and tell us their tale of woe. It could be an amusing side show for the community.

I tried to make the voting as much about the blanks as possible and to take photo skills out of the equation. I wasn't 100% successful though. Better photos might have helped a few of the entrants attract more votes than they did. I'm not sure if it would have changed the final voting results. Maybe. Maybe not. 168 people voted in the Blank Contest. That seems like a respectable number.

Overall, I felt the bash didn't get the same level of participation and excitement as we had last year. That may be because last year I ran the Russ Fairfield Modified Slimline contest, which was hugely popular. Running the Russ contest was like spending time in the pits at the Daytona 500. Wild and crazy. Running the blank contest felt a little more like spending time at the library. I think I tried just as hard to promote / create excitement. Maybe I could have done better though. I'll have to think about that.

With the big changes in the contest line up this year, maybe people had a hard time figuring out where they belonged. After seeing how things worked out this year, maybe they will have an easier time next year. Unless things get changed all over again.

Ed
 

jttheclockman

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Now I have no dog in this race but was there not a Summer Extravaganza or something last year. I was basically not on the forum last year but i thought the couple times i stopped by there was something going on. The point I am making is if this is the case and it will be back then maybe some of the contests could be held at that time instead of trying to get them all in, in one month. I have noticed that the amount of pens being submitted is down for sure from years gone by.

The one thing I will say is that I always hated to place laser or cnc pens up against hand made pens. The exactness can't be matched. The small details that can be achieved with a cnc machine is overkill when going against a handmade pen. Handmade pens will always have flaws but that is what we strive to eliminate.

Good luck.
 

Ed McDonnell

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A few other thoughts.

Looking at how the voting worked in the contests I ran this year and last, I had 95%+ of the votes in 48 hours. If we shortened the voting period to 48 hours it might be easier to space the various contests out over the Bash time frame.

I think eliminating the components from the blank contest helped keep the focus on just the blanks. It was intended to be a blank making contest, not a pen making contest. But I agree that the rules could benefit from some more thought to help define what a valid entry is.

John's point about the summer bash is valid. Are we getting contest burnout? I didn't think so, but maybe we are. Do we need a thread asking people to explain why they didn't enter the bash this year?

Ed
 

mredburn

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Making the voting times shorter will not affect the amount of time it takes to design and build the pen. Most of the contests have 2 weeks + to get a pen built and entered, some times thats barely enough time if you work and only have a weekend or two to make your pen. Then if you want to enter more than one contest or if your entry self destructs its barely enough time at all.
Making the voting times shorted helps keep the runnoff votes from running into March.
The shorter we make the voting times the more it favors those who live on IAP. It would eliminate part of our members that dont visit as often. The one week voting was too long though.
 

twinsen

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This was my 2nd bash. I think the Beginner, intermediate and advanced should be brought back, accept in a slightly different fashion.

Beginner: Acrylic or wood, no segmenting, no casted blanks, no cnc. Commercially Slimline or Cigar or Sierra style pen kit (unmodified). Have never placed in a BASH (or other) pen making competition. Must consider yourself a beginner.

Intermediate NonSegmented: Any material, no segmenting, casted blanks are allowed, no cnc. Any (Pen kit (unmodified). May or may not have placed in another BASH pen making contest. Must consider yourself a Intermediate.

Intermediate Segmented: Any material (at least 2 types), must be segmented, casted blanks are allowed, no cnc. Any Pen kit (unmodified). May or may not have placed in another BASH pen making contest. Must consider yourself a Intermediate.

Advanced: Any Material. Any pen kit (unmodified), segmenting allowed, No cnc allowed, casting allowed. Recommended to have placed in a previous BASH or other pen making competition (but not required).

Advanced with CNC and Mods: Any Material. Any pen kit (modifications allowed), segmenting allowed, cnc allowed, casting allowed. Any and all techniques or tools allowed. Recommended to have placed in a previous BASH or other pen making competition (but not required).

The idea is to make the beginner competition truly beginner by limiting it in such a way that beginner entries will not be overshadowed by advanced techniques, materials, and/or kits. Then to allow more expensive kits/materials, and advanced techniques in the Intermediate and advanced competitions.

Something like this would also give Members something to look forward to year after year. I won the beginner last year and looked forward to the Intermediate all year... when it didn't exist this year, I admit, I was a bit lost for a while. If you are like me, you do research on what other beginner, intermediate, and advanced level pens look like from the previous year and try to match/exceed what you find.

Next year I would like there to be an advanced with out CNC competition. And also and platform for CNC as well.
 
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mbroberg

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When the Bash planners plan a Bash the first order of business is to review the feedback that was received from previous Bash's Each year we attempt to structure the Bash in response to the feedback we receive. No matter how we do it, someone will say would be better if it were done some other way. Then when we do it the other way, someone will want it done the way it was before.

Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced labels have always been difficult to define. For example, at one time we tried to define beginner as someone who had been on the forum less than one year. We had people with many years of penturning experience fall into this category simply because they had never heard of the IAP until recently and they just joined.

Then we tried to say a beginner was someone who has turned under X number of pens. We had members who had turned pens in the past but had been away from it for many, many years and for all practical purposes were starting all over.

We tried "self-assessment". Enter the contest you think you belong in. We find that it's human nature to Under-Estimate one's own ability.

This year we tried to define contests in such a way to eliminate labels that spoke to skill level. We tried to present a variety of contests and write the rules for those contests in such a way that everybody could be comfortable entering at least one or two of them. Apparently that didn't work as well as intended. We all realize that we can't please everyone, but we can try to please the majority. Suggestions for improvement are always welcome. We will keep trying.:)
 

mark james

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We all realize that we can't please everyone, but we can try to please the majority. Suggestions for improvement are always welcome. We will keep trying.

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is to try to please everyone."

Ed Sheeren

Close... is close enough! Everyone did a good job! (But the suggestions will still be helpful :wink:).
 

SDB777

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Scott, I'm not trying to start an argument.There's no catagory that a 2x4s worth of effort is going to show well in.


You knew what I was trying to say....sorry I mentioned anything. From now on I will refrain from any feedback on any contests...apparently I'm not part in the cliché? And any of my comments will be taken out of context for purposes that are probably best described as 'below the belt'.




Scott (I know why it is too) B
 

Cwalker935

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This was my 2nd bash. I think the Beginner, intermediate and advanced should be brought back, accept in a slightly different fashion.

Beginner: Acrylic or wood, no segmenting, no casted blanks, no cnc. Commercially Slimline or Cigar or Sierra style pen kit (unmodified). Have never placed in a BASH (or other) pen making competition. Must consider yourself a beginner.

Intermediate NonSegmented: Any material, no segmenting, casted blanks are allowed, no cnc. Any (Pen kit (unmodified). May or may not have placed in another BASH pen making contest. Must consider yourself a Intermediate.

Intermediate Segmented: Any material (at least 2 types), must be segmented, casted blanks are allowed, no cnc. Any Pen kit (unmodified). May or may not have placed in another BASH pen making contest. Must consider yourself a Intermediate.

Advanced: Any Material. Any pen kit (unmodified), segmenting allowed, No cnc allowed, casting allowed. Recommended to have placed in a previous BASH or other pen making competition (but not required).

Advanced with CNC and Mods: Any Material. Any pen kit (modifications allowed), segmenting allowed, cnc allowed, casting allowed. Any and all techniques or tools allowed. Recommended to have placed in a previous BASH or other pen making competition (but not required).

The idea is to make the beginner competition truly beginner by limiting it in such a way that beginner entries will not be overshadowed by advanced techniques, materials, and/or kits. Then to allow more expensive kits/materials, and advanced techniques in the Intermediate and advanced competitions.

Something like this would also give Members something to look forward to year after year. I won the beginner last year and looked forward to the Intermediate all year... when it didn't exist this year, I admit, I was a bit lost for a while. If you are like me, you do research on what other beginner, intermediate, and advanced level pens look like from the previous year and try to match/exceed what you find.

Next year I would like there to be an advanced with out CNC competition. And also and platform for CNC as well.

I think Greg is on the right track. Tightly defined contests will let the members sort themselves out without having to define beginner, intermediate, etc. My perspective on what were appropriate entries for some of the contests based on my reading of the guidelines differed in many instances from the actual entries. So my thought is tighten up the contest guidelines and encourage members to challenge themselves to a higher level.
 
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