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Advanced Pen Making Kit-less construction; designs and challenges beyond those normally associated with kit pens.


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Old 10-05-2017, 03:19 PM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Erik,

I agree with RobS. I would just hold off on everything for right now. A couple of words sources of supply.

If you go with Richard's first project, the clipless fountain pen using taps and dies:

El Grande grip section and nib is available from Pen Kit Making Supplies Berea HardWoods
The El Grande section will require an M10-1 tap
Richard's book will give you several ideas for barrel to section threads. I used 1/2x32, but there are numerous possibilities. You will need both the tap and die. Get 1" high speed steel round dies. A plug tap will be sufficient.
You will need a die holder and a tap guide.
If you choose to make threaded mandrels (see below) you will also need an M10-1 die.
All of this tooling is available at a reasonable price from Victor Machinery - Metalworking tools and supplies. Try to order it all at once as they have a $25 minimum order.

All of the tooling recommendations assume that you have a 1/2 inch jacobs style chuck for your tailstock.

Richard will tell you to make two threaded mandrels from steel to hold the barrel and cap while you shape them. Some of the folks here use pin chucks quite successfully. I have always made threaded mandrels from aluminum or brass (which you can do on a wood lathe). Your choice.

Means of precision measurement (Harbor Freight or Lowes digital Caliper) is a necessity.

Workholding:

Depending upon what you already have, you may not need to spring for a collet chuck yet. That said, I would tend to go along with RobS and hold out for the Beall. The main reason from my point of view is that the PSI appears to rely strictly on hand strength for tightening, and sometimes that just isn't enough.

This is probably more than you wanted to know, but hope it was helpful.

Bill
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
 
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I started a different way, first I read everything that I could find on IAP. I wasn't going to buy the extra expensive taps and dies until I had the fountain pen "mechanics" figured out. I already had a set of metric tap and dies. For everything except the nib holder I substituted the standard metric tap and dies.

As I was reading I kept notes on lengths, sizes etc., and converted that info to my set of taps and dies. I drew up my ideas with measurements etc., so that when I started I had my plan ready to go. I first turned the blanks round to fit my collet. I cut my lengths and did my drilling and tapping using my collet chuck. When it came to the triple start and specialty tap and dies, I used what I had. I did order a few of the nib holders etc., from Classic Nib, and that one tap.

I ruined a few blanks on the way, changed what others had to make it mine, and finally had what I wanted. It worked, it looked good and it was my design. I was till using single threaded caps, all I needed was the triple start stuff. I researched the selling points with past customers, who and how many were interested in fountain pens. That was a flop, very little interest. Not enough interest to justify the cost of the taps and dies. So I was stuck using kits or wasting money.

But I learned a lot, I do use the same tap and die technique to make seam rippers, just no triple start caps. You can also make toothpick holders with the same techniques. plus a few other things.

For the tooling, the tap holder, I made my own using scrap aluminum I had, the dies holder, I turned a piece of HDPE and drilled it etc., to make it. My collet chuck, I already had, I have both the Beall and PSI, save your money get the PSI. Get a quart of automatic transmission fluid, it works as a lubricant when cutting threads on acrylic. Also works for wet sanding acrylic.
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
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The PSI collet chuck uses "Tommy bars" , not just hand strength , to tighten the chuck which is just as good as a wrench and the savings will more the pay for a tailstock drill chuck . as far as holding a barrel for a kitless a jam chuck made from some maple works fantastically to hold a closed end barrel , and you can make it to hold the entire blank not just the threaded end .
Again the best tool is experience to successfully make a kitless pen and if you don't have the skills or knowledge you are doomed to failure . Use tutorials wisely to learn what to do but use experience to learn how to do it .
Another thing you should learn is turning between centers . While not absolutely necessary it is a skill that comes in very very handy very often in kitless penmaking

Tim , wood can not be successfully threaded so some other material must be used to make the connectors . The most common is ebonite but any plastic can be used (some better then others) and metals like aluminum or brass which can be turned and shaped on a wood lathe .
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
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Butch,

Couldn't tell about the tommy bars from the picture.

As far as wood threads are concerned, see this page Pen 2:

Kitless Contest Poll

That pen won the kitless contest this year. You can also search on Fountain Pen Network for Pierre. He does some amazing stuff and talks a little bit about his all-wood pens over there although he doesn't go into detail about how he does it.

Bill
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:53 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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Hi Bill
I didn't know about the tommy bars either , when I bought mine price was most important , it was either PSI or it wasn't . I was very happy to find them in the kit ... lol
As far as wood pens I know it can be done , I've done a few but nothing i'd risk my reputation on . Unless you are using stabilized wood the threading is not worth the time or hassle . I get very little call for fountain pens so I make very few fountain pens , wood or other wise
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:04 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Simple wooden pen
Simple Wooden Rollerball Pen
Walnut / Ebony roller ball wooden pen
Mesquite and Maple Pith Rollerball
Mesquite and Walnut rollerball
I have also done wooden sierras.
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
 
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I love wooden threads. They can be just perfect. Well, I admit, sometimes they are not. You need a good wood (hard, little or no grain, here pau rosa, lignum vitae, tulipwood, kingwood and lignum again), and to forget where your box of dies is. I use a cutter turning at high speed.
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Old 10-08-2017, 07:49 AM   #28 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre--- View Post
I love wooden threads. They can be just perfect. Well, I admit, sometimes they are not. You need a good wood (hard, little or no grain, here pau rosa, lignum vitae, tulipwood, kingwood and lignum again), and to forget where your box of dies is. I use a cutter turning at high speed.
Pierre, s'il vous plait ... can you show us a photo of your equipment configured for cutting threads? It sounds like you have a thread-cutting jig of some kind, if so could you share which make and where you bought it?
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Old 10-08-2017, 09:24 AM   #29 (permalink)
 
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Just an observation, but the OP is just starting out and threading wood is not a beginners technique. He did ask if it could be done with wood. The answer is yes, but start with something else until you have the process down. There is a reason that threaded wood is so uncommon. Wood is going to change with the weather much more than plastic or metal and will be far less forgiving.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:39 AM   #30 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobS View Post
Others have chimed in that they have hit their knuckles on the knurling on the psi collet holder, and that is why I recommend the much more expensive Beall. The smooth outer nut doesn't hurt if you get too close.

Also the hex 8mm die should be a round die. Hex dies are traditionally used for cleaning up existing threads, round are for forming from a raw tennon.

I would hold off on your order until you buy the book, and read up more on the process.
You will still need a die holder, and I highly recommend the tap guide.

Also, are you making a #5 or #6, looks like you are going for a #6 nib, if that is the case one of the others needs to confirm if the 8mm will work for the section. I do not know.


I usually use a 9mm x 0.75 for the front section of a #5 nib. The smallest I've been able to use is an 8.5mm x 0.6 and only in metal. I'm surprised an 8mm would work. With a 0.75 pitch your left with less than 0.5mm (0.020") wall between threads.

Try some mock ups with scrap pieces drilling at thread diameters and turning to the diameters at the bottom of the external threads. Then you can test for wall thicknesses and strength before you buy your taps and dies.

My rule of thumb has been 2mm differences minimum between section and cap threads assuming 0.75 pitch. It works for metals and acrylics.

Danny


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