What do I need for a Kitless pen - Page 2 - International Association of Penturners
     International Association of Penturners
Pens for Service Members
 
Support The IAP

Go Back   International Association of Penturners > Community Forums > Advanced Pen Making
  Forgot Password
Register FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Advanced Pen Making Kit-less construction; designs and challenges beyond those normally associated with kit pens.


Logged on members can hide ads!

Welcome to penturners.org!

You've found the home of The International Association of Penturners. You are currently viewing our site as a guest, which gives you limited access to view discussions, photos, and library articles.

Consider joining our community today. You'll have full access to all of our content, be able to enter our contests, find local chapters near you, and post your questions and share your experience with our members all over the world.

Membership is completely free!!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2017, 02:39 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
Erik831's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Salinas CA
Posts: 315
Photos: 0

Default

Sorry I still donít understand very well the threads size. If you could give me a direct link to the tap and die for a common kit to start with? After getting my feet wet I think Iíll have an idea of what other taps and dies I need to purchase next.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
Erik831 is online now   Reply With Quote Top
Old 10-05-2017, 05:18 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
ldb2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Laurence Harbor, NJ, USA.
Posts: 5,383
Photos: 226

Default

Most kit pens use special double or triple start threads in odd ball sizes so there are no off the shelf taps or dies
Kitless penmaking requires much more then just some taps and dies .
To start you will need a chuck system of some type . a 4 jaw chuck is ok but a collet chuck will be much more useful for kitless pens . a drill chuck for your tailstock will also be quite useful , you should be drilling on the lathe for accuracy . You will need a dial or digital caliper so you cam measure things to the thousandth of an inch . and when you are ready for them a tap and die , a 12x1 metric tap and die for the cap threads and a 8x1 tap for the section , those sizes WILL change depending on allot of different factors . you will also need to make or buy things like a closed end mandrel and last (for now) a complete set of drill bits including metric/inch and letter sizes
You can have all the tools needed and still not be able to make a kitless pen . You have to understand how a pen is made . The best way to learn is to just do it , you will fail but with each failure you will begin to understand . Don't worry about taps and dies , that will come in time . To start try modifying a few pens first , try a closed end design or try making modified slimline or cigar pens so you can become familiar how to use the tools you have accumulated . Once you have gotten good at measuring and turning to a thousandth of an inch then you can start thinking about full kitless . All the tools in the world won't make you a kitless penmaker , knowledge and understanding is the most important part of making kitless pens .
__________________
Butch
Kitless Fanatic
The simplest method is usually the best solution (Me )
Any fool can know , the point is to understand (Albert Einstein)
There are no mistakes....Only happy accidents (Bob Ross)

Last edited by ldb2000; 10-05-2017 at 05:41 AM.
Likes: (1)
ldb2000 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 10-05-2017, 09:17 AM   #13 (permalink)
IAP Activities Manager
 
mredburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Fort Myers FL
Posts: 7,883
Photos: 83

Default

Maybe this will help you. From the Library
http://content.penturners.org/librar...es_kitless.pdf
__________________
Life occasionally offers us the opportunity to make very very hard choices. I have had such offers.
Level 6 Pen Wizard, smoke, mirror and sleight of hand enabled.
Mike.
http://www.silverpenparts.com
Likes: (1)
mredburn is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Advertisement
Old 10-05-2017, 09:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Owensboro, KY
Posts: 202
Photos: 0

Default

Erik,

I would strongly suggest that you beg, borrow, steal, or buy a copy of "The Penturners Bible" by Richard Kleinhenz which is available from Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Pen-Turners-B...7209252&sr=1-1.

This is a great project oriented book which starts out simply with slimlines and goes on up through kitless and beyond. The first kitless project is a clipless fountain pen that uses a readily available Churchill section. The author provides a list of every tool needed along with options. He explains how threads stack up and gives step by step instructions on how to build the pen. This is how I built my first kitless pen and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people around here did as well. It is also probably the simplest and least expensive way of getting started.

Nothing wrong with the other advice that's been presented, but this puts it all in one place.

Bill

Last edited by bmachin; 10-05-2017 at 09:49 AM.
bmachin is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 10-05-2017, 09:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
RobS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 397
Photos: 77

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmachin View Post
Erik,

I would strongly suggest that you beg, borrow, steal, or buy a copy of "The Penturners Bible" by Richard Kleinhenz which is available from Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Pen-Turners-B...7209252&sr=1-1.

This is a great project oriented book which starts out simply with slimlines and goes on up through kitless and beyond. The first kitless project is a clipless fountain pen that uses a readily available Churchill section. The author provides a list of every tool needed along with options. He explains how threads stack up and gives step by step instructions on how to build the pen. This is how I built my first kitless pen and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people around here did as well.

Nothing wrong with the other advice that's been presented, but this puts it all in one place.

Bill
Highly agree with this. That book is pure gold. It boosted my skill level immensely!!!!!
__________________
RobS
Oceanside, CA
Likes: (2)
RobS is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 10-05-2017, 12:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
Erik831's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Salinas CA
Posts: 315
Photos: 0

Default

Ordered the book. Also I searched some of the tools you guys suggested . If someone could tell me if these would work to start practicing (before I hit the purchase button)


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
Erik831 is online now   Reply With Quote Top
Old 10-05-2017, 01:00 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
RobS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 397
Photos: 77

Default

Others have chimed in that they have hit their knuckles on the knurling on the psi collet holder, and that is why I recommend the much more expensive Beall. The smooth outer nut doesn't hurt if you get too close.

Also the hex 8mm die should be a round die. Hex dies are traditionally used for cleaning up existing threads, round are for forming from a raw tennon.

I would hold off on your order until you buy the book, and read up more on the process.
You will still need a die holder, and I highly recommend the tap guide.

Also, are you making a #5 or #6, looks like you are going for a #6 nib, if that is the case one of the others needs to confirm if the 8mm will work for the section. I do not know.
__________________
RobS
Oceanside, CA
Likes: (1)
RobS is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 10-05-2017, 01:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
moke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 835
Photos: 0

Default

Hi Erik,
I recently bought a metal lathe and I have been collecting the various needed (and some not so needed, but cool) tools. I have had a lot of help from folks here and from a friend that is a retired machinist.

This is truly a long and complicated journey, that I have just started, but I have learned so much just this far, it is staggering, and as mentioned, you really need to get the recommended stuff and dive in. I started making some things for jigs for my wood shop and for my wood lathe. I have been accomplishing so much and making things useful that I had laying around, that I have not started on pens yet. Plus I am still collecting some of the items (taps and dies) for the pen making.

One thing I did learn, just as 10 years ago when I got my first wood lathe and started to make pens, the cost of the lathe is a minor part of the overall costs, this is almost the same!
__________________
Mike aka: Moke

www.hallsphoto.com

Procrastinate Later
--Unknown Author

Last edited by moke; 10-05-2017 at 01:49 PM.
Likes: (1)
moke is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 10-05-2017, 02:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
ldb2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Laurence Harbor, NJ, USA.
Posts: 5,383
Photos: 226

Default

That collet chuck is the one I use and I love it , I guess I'm lucky but I have never hit my knuckles and the savings over the beall can be put to more tools . If you absolutly insist on getting taps now I would also advise 10x1 for premade sections from kit pens . and very important is to get a caliper of some kind , kitless pens require very exact measurements .
Now for some questions ,
What do you want to build ?
What is your skill level ?
Have you ever modified a kit pen ?
Have you ever made a closed end pen ?
Closed end pen experience is very important since almost all kitless fp pens are closed end pens and if you cant hold your work or finish a closed end you won't be able to make a kitless pen .
These are things you can do while waiting for tools to come .
__________________
Butch
Kitless Fanatic
The simplest method is usually the best solution (Me )
Any fool can know , the point is to understand (Albert Einstein)
There are no mistakes....Only happy accidents (Bob Ross)

Last edited by ldb2000; 10-05-2017 at 02:37 PM.
Likes: (1)
ldb2000 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 10-05-2017, 03:08 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: North Texas
Posts: 33
Photos: 0

Default

This may seem like a silly question as I've never made a kitless pen, but most kitless pens I've seen are some polymer compound or another... is it possible to make kitless wooden pens? I could see threads being a long-term usage problem, but wondering if there are ways to do it.
thawkins87 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Related Content
Logged on members can hide ads
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:50 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

Content Copyright © 2003-2016 by Penturners.org, LLC; All Rights Reserved
Terms Of Service   Acceptable Use Policy