ThinkTank: The 360 Herringbone Experiment

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JohnU

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I just sat and read all of this.... my head hurts. I havent seen this blank in person to really appreciate what it has to offer on all sides, but it sounds interesting, and some day when i get more than an hour at a time, Im going to give it a try. Good luck all!
 
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wolftat

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A couple of people have contacted me and have said some nasty things to me, as far as I am concerned, save it, your just showing how little you truly know. If this is truly that important for you to learn, get out from behind your keyboard, go into your shop, and try to use your mind for something creative, unless that is asking too much.
 

CSue

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Well, I am really interested in following this thread. I certainly don't have it figured out. But I like hearing how others are puzzling this out.

I think this was a GREAT idea!!!

Thank you, Steve, for presenting this thread for us to "reason with."
 

OKLAHOMAN

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Neil let me first apologize for the few while us many appreciate your sticking to your promise.Sometimes not only will some want us to catch,cook, and serve their food but now they want it pre chewed. While I admire what you, Steve,Keith and others have done my talent is not in blank making and I know my limitations and am looking forward to see where this goes I just hope it spurs some good thinking.
A couple of people have contacted me and have said some nasty things to me, as far as I am concerned, save it, your just showing how little you truly know. If this is truly that important for you to learn, get out from behind your keyboard, go into your shop, and try to use your mind for something creative, unless that is asking too much.
 

akbar24601

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A couple of people have contacted me and have said some nasty things to me, as far as I am concerned, save it, your just showing how little you truly know. If this is truly that important for you to learn, get out from behind your keyboard, go into your shop, and try to use your mind for something creative, unless that is asking too much.

Very well put Neil!!!! I don't feel that this or any other forum is the place for that kind of behavior. If you do, then you don't deserve anyone's help anyway. Do yourself a favor and prove to yourself that you can be a little more productive with that mind that God gave you other than badgering innocent people!!!
 

ngeb528

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So, I was thinking as I was reading this. To me the best way to start is with the bottom row.

If you figure out what angle you need for the number of pieces you want around the tube, wouldn't it make sense to cut the bottom row pieces, at the angle you want, along the bottom edge so you could effectively glue the row together around the tube you want to use? Wouldn't that give you a nice clean end to start off? Then each subsequent row would stack on top of the bottom. Obviously, you'd cut each piece a little shorter as you work around the tube.

I have no idea if I'm thinking through this correctly, but that was my initial thought.

What do you all think?
 

wolftat

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Hopefully I will get no more rude messages, but I will answer all of them now.


"Many decafs taste just as good as the real thing" Chevy Chase???
 

babyblues

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What I can't figure out is how you would calculate the angles. It wouldn't be as simple as dividing 360 by the number of "sides". Also, the number of "sides" would have to be an even number or you couldn't complete the pattern around the blank. That's if I'm thinking of this correctly. I'll have to do some brushing up on my geometry. Or find someone who is better at geometry than I am. :biggrin:
 

USAFVET98

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Steve,
It looks to me like you have multiple blanks there. two to be exact. They are ripped down the middle to create 4 parts, then glued to make one full blank. I am thinking now, thinner 30 degree cuts and the fact that when it's turned and the pattern is all the way around makes it 360 degree? Am I close?

Thank you ED! I do stand corrected. My wording was wrong and I am glad that you called me on it :)




Hiya Wheaties! The following pic shows the 360 HB design. It is your basic HB design that actually wraps around the whole blank.
 

USAFVET98

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Wait a minute, upon closer inspection of the pictures, it looks like every other section is upside down.

Steve,
It looks to me like you have multiple blanks there. two to be exact. They are ripped down the middle to create 4 parts, then glued to make one full blank. I am thinking now, thinner 30 degree cuts and the fact that when it's turned and the pattern is all the way around makes it 360 degree? Am I close?
 

wolftat

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Is there somewhere to go that explains what this is? Sorry, I'm still learning. What exactly is HB 360? I know no one knows how to do it, but I don't even know what it is.

Thanks
The herringbone 360 is a herringbone pattern that continues as one all the way around the pen with no breaks. And some of us do know how to do it, but are just feeling that we worked a lot to make it and develop it to put a tutorial up for all to copy. Not to bring up a bad subject again, but I have not forgotten the uproar when the Circuit board pen went commercial. When we forget history, it tends to repeat itself.
 

USAFVET98

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I have to chime in here. I dont blame you guys at all. These designs are unique and say alot about your individual talents. Not to mention you worked very hard to perfect your craft. Everyone on this site has been more than generous with many thing. I see no problem with keeping a few hard earned designs to your selves. I see so many pointers and tips from beginners level to advanced. It is now up to us to come up with our unique designs, or try our hand at ones that have been done already. I dont know how many times I tried something I saw on here and it came out nothing like I expected, and still liked the design even more because it was new.

Sorry for the rant everyone

By the way, if you guys ever do decide to give up the secret, sell it. Hold a raffle for $5.00 a pop and the winner gets a full description and instructions on how to do it. All proceeds go to IAP as a donation for a great site. Just an idea.:)

The herringbone 360 is a herringbone pattern that continues as one all the way around the pen with no breaks. And some of us do know how to do it, but are just feeling that we worked a lot to make it and develop it to put a tutorial up for all to copy. Not to bring up a bad subject again, but I have not forgotten the uproar when the Circuit board pen went commercial. When we forget history, it tends to repeat itself.
 

wolftat

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By the way, if you guys ever do decide to give up the secret, sell it. Hold a raffle for $5.00 a pop and the winner gets a full description and instructions on how to do it. All proceeds go to IAP as a donation for a great site. Just an idea.:)
Sorry, but my word not to give it up is worth more to me than money.
 

louisbry

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I am thinking that you should cut small squares (say 3/4 inch) out of 1/4 inch lumber with 45 degree miters on all edges (opposite sides parallel). Then you cut all the squares diagonally with a 90 degree cut to form triangles. Forty such triangles should be enough to make a single blank. I will have to try this and see if it works. First I will have to figure out how to cut such small pieces. Laser cut would be nice! I may be way off, but this is what I visualize after thinking about it last night. It might be easier to just buy a $90 blank from Ed.
 

ed4copies

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Yes, We (Dawn & I) do sell the blanks on Exoticblanks --- but the makers ship them and get the money. We merely offer them a place where more people will SEE it.

Why would we do this? Makes our site INTERESTING!!! So you will COME BACK!!! And buy STUFF from US!!! And we enjoy watching these guys get paid a little something for THEIR creativity.
 

wdcav1952

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed4copies
A) That was a RUDE choice of words on my part, I apologize, "Sit back, pop some popcorn and watch the show" would have been MUCH better.

B) I have no RIGHT to TELL anyone what to do, so consider it a SUGGESTION, certainly NOT a command.

Sorry, I was caught up in getting it posted and got downright UNcivil - MY ERROR!!!


Oh, I was pulling your chain!! No harm no foul. Just making a point, as you reminded me that I was old!!:wink:

Ed,

From my dealings with the OLD Rollerbob, I think you and I can invite him into the "no blood, no foul" club!!:cool:
 

ed4copies

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Heck Cav,

I take no offense from any comment made about me. I was just worried I had stepped out of line in my "general comment".

I sincerely appreciate Bob taking it in the spirit I meant to present, but I WAS wrong in stating it that way.

Of course, WELCOME BOB to the fray. No corpses in the streets, no fouls. All else is "water off a duck's back".
 

akbar24601

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It definetly would be easier, and would save you a lot of wood. Please remember that while Ed sells these blanks, there are others that do as well. Ed does have some nice ones sometimes too.
Yeah, and Ed's are better!!! LOL :biggrin::wink::biggrin::tongue: And, they aren't even $90 anymore!!!:eek::eek::eek:
 

Rmartin

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"Many decafs taste just as good as the real thing" Chevy Chase???

I wrote a barrel hinge tutorial which is in the 2008 library archives which starts with this quote:



"...there's a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing"​
Chris Knight (Val Kilmer) "Real Genius"

I don't know if Chevy said the same thing, but it illustrates the axiom that nothing has been original since Shakespeare, or the Romans, or somebody original from a long time ago.

I guess you've seen the link to the Faber-Castell 360HB pen. They say each veneer is hand cut as it's glued to the blank. If this is the case, then it seems unlikely to me the market is going to get flooded with 360HB pens.

So my question is, why all the concern this method will become public?

So I'm guessing there must be an easier way to do the direct to tube method, such as creating a flat veneer then wrapping it around the tube, much like many clear castings. The seam would be critical, but probably not to the major companies. It didn't bother them with the circuit board design.

I have to say though, I'm more interested in building segments as solid blanks. I've made many of the standard HB pens and absolutely love the look. I've wondered if it's possible to cut a standard HB glue-up in such a way, that once it's glued back together, it would make the 360HB. After reading through the 360 threads, I think I'll go a different route.

It's been way too hot to work in my shop once I get home from work this week, (heat index well over 100) but this weekend, I plan to spend a little time wrapping a small square blank with bits of various woods.

 

wolftat

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I wrote a barrel hinge tutorial which is in the 2008 library archives which starts with this quote:



"...there's a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing"​
Chris Knight (Val Kilmer) "Real Genius"

I don't know if Chevy said the same thing, but it illustrates the axiom that nothing has been original since Shakespeare, or the Romans, or somebody original from a long time ago.

I guess you've seen the link to the Faber-Castell 360HB pen. They say each veneer is hand cut as it's glued to the blank. If this is the case, then it seems unlikely to me the market is going to get flooded with 360HB pens.

So my question is, why all the concern this method will become public?

So I'm guessing there must be an easier way to do the direct to tube method, such as creating a flat veneer then wrapping it around the tube, much like many clear castings. The seam would be critical, but probably not to the major companies. It didn't bother them with the circuit board design.

I have to say though, I'm more interested in building segments as solid blanks. I've made many of the standard HB pens and absolutely love the look. I've wondered if it's possible to cut a standard HB glue-up in such a way, that once it's glued back together, it would make the 360HB. After reading through the 360 threads, I think I'll go a different route.

It's been way too hot to work in my shop once I get home from work this week, (heat index well over 100) but this weekend, I plan to spend a little time wrapping a small square blank with bits of various woods.
Richard, I stand corrected. It was Val Kilmer in Real Genius who said it. I wasn't sure so I took a shot hence the question marks. I must have watched that movie 10 times(only one we could see for about 3 months).
My concern about it becoming public stems from the practice of taking our hard work and turning it into mass made blanks, like the circuit board. I personally don't understand why so many want a tutorial instead of breaking it down on there own like most of us have. Why do we always need to take the easy way out of something that is either a business as it is for me or a hobby as it is for so many. I especially feel that when this was a hobby for me, figuring things out on my own waas much more gratifying than following directions. Since this is supposed to be about freedom of creation, why not try and create something that hasn't been done? I am always doing things in my shop to try and come up with something new and different.
 

Rollerbob

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Well, well ,well a man trying his darndest to mind his own business, slaving on this dang bone design, and turn on the computer to find that his good name has been violated by a few Upperstatesmen.:frown: Questioning if he is able to withstand the heat of the kitchen, so to speak.:rolleyes: Well, I'm here to tell ya, my boots are big enough to handle what's in them as well as what gets on them!!!!:biggrin::devil::cowboy:
So, no harm no foul applies!!!!:rain::biggrin: Ed, Cav is still a little hurt about the "pink thing"! :tongue::tongue:
 

GaryMGg

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Hey folks, merember me? :biggrin: I used to make some wood pens.
I haven't made one since July 3rd of last year :frown: but I ain't forgotten how.
I've mostly been doing flat work the last year.

I wanna throw in a couple 'o comments here. Given that July 4th is about 2 weeks away, for me this discussion is right on time -- Eagle, my friend, you listenin'? :wink:

The first is related to the `Gimme a tutorial' crowd. To those who believe you're owed a tutorial and wrote to insult Wolftat for NOT sharing his method I say, "Who is John Galt?"

The second is the best tip WRT thinking about making a pen blank and it comes from Eagle: "The blank is constructed from the center out to the edge!"

The third is a philosophy about blank making and it's one I share with Ed, Eagle, and numerous others: Work to figure out how to make what you see and experiment using trial and error. This will teach you more than anything anyone else can tell you.

When I first got into pen making, my first custom woodwork pen, e.g.: one not made from simple solid wood, was a curly Bubinga pen with an Ebony and Maple Yin Yang inlay.
The blank took me 8 hours to make.
While building the blank, I spent many hours on a cell phone with an ear-bud in my ear and Eagle on the other end. We talked about all manner of things related to penmaking, the world, and life.
He talked about how I would learn more than I would realize from figuring out how to make the inlay Yin Yang.
Now, as a woodworker, I can think of several methods to make the HB 360 -- gee, that almost sounds like a piece of legislation :tongue: -- and they're all a lot of work. I can promise you that when time permits, I'll make a blank like this to help encourage others who want to figure things out for themselves.

One reason Eagle, I and others hesitate to instruct folks on how to make certain blanks -- IT CAN BE DANGEROUS! Yep, some of these blanks are constructed from lots of small pieces and working with power tools having flesh-eating, rotating cutters can put you at risk.
So, one reason I hesitate is because I don't know what you don't know about safety.
If you ask for safety advice, I will gladly offer it -- always and freely.


Finally, I want to draw your attention to the work being done by a friend of mine, Darryl M., who posts here infrequently:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/18179

After you look at that link, look at a bunch of his projects online at the LJ.
When I started conversing with Darryl about his work, he'd been making plain wood pens for many months. I knew he had a huge talent, but he was lazy -- he wouldn't push himself. I gnawed at him a bit and pushed and prodded and now he shines like the star he always was. Look at the mastery of his workmanship! I have nothing to do with the quality of his craft; I merely antagonized him enough to help him throw off the lazy man's yoke.
So, I suggest, those of you who wish to learn to make the HB 360 -- throw off the lazy man's yoke, go out to the shop, and cut some wood. Glue some wood. Test your ideas. Test your mettle. Teach your inner child how to transform wishes and wants into self-fulfilling actualizations. Train yourself to do rather than desire. And, make some great pens.

Cheers,
G
 

wolftat

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Gary, I have seen some of his bottle stoppers in the past and have always thought they were first rate. I really liked the open segmented stopper.
 

jfoh

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Some guy takes shredded money, snake skins or whatever and turns it into a blank, then turns it into a different looking pen and three days later the world is flooded with money/snakeskin pens. That is fine but why is it that some feel that knowledge must be shared so they can copy it or even start making blanks to sell to others. It use to be that a celtic knot was a neat looking, different pen to me. I have seen a hundred in the last year so they are common these days. 360 Heringbone pens will be common if someone can teach ten guys how to make them with little trial or error.

If you want to make 360 heringbone blanks start with paper and pencil. Draw it out from above and then from the side. Four sections meet at 90 degree, five at 72 degrees and six at 60 degrees. Your side angle where they meet can be up 15, 30 or 45 degrees or what ever works out to your eye. It just needs to stay constant. They whole assemble works much better it you have a small disk sander to make all the ends very smooth so the gaps are as tight as possible. First one took me three hours to make. Second one less than half an hour. Once you get the angles down they are not that hard to make. By the way, I think that the extra skin that I left behind on the wood, when I glued them up was not needed. Some days super glue and I do not get along. :)
 

ngeb528

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So, I suggest, those of you who wish to learn to make the HB 360 -- throw off the lazy man's yoke, go out to the shop, and cut some wood. Glue some wood. Test your ideas. Test your mettle. Teach your inner child how to transform wishes and wants into self-fulfilling actualizations. Train yourself to do rather than desire. And, make some great pens.

Cheers,
G

I don't disagree with your statements (and by the way, that was all very well said) but I wonder if most aren't, so much, wanting the tutorial on a platter, as wanting some idea of where to start.

I know, from my own experience, that when you're starting a new project and know nothing, that some insight is very helpful. I was at a complete loss when I was wanting to start casting. I had no idea where to start or what to have to successfully do the cast.

If not for some friendly people here, I would be fumbling around wasting what little product I have to get nothing usable.

I think, from reading several of the tutorials in the library, that for me, I get a basic understanding of how something works, then make it work for me.

Just like it says on the link Gary posted, no two will be exactly the same and by having a starting place it would probably lead to other ideas and entirely new challenges for turner's to try.

Trial & error is a good thing - don't get me wrong - but especially in the current economical climate, not wasting money is important too.

Just my two cents.:)
 

tim self

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IIRC this thread was started because of another thread, Has this place changed? I was glad to read the intent of this thread. However, I think it has turned from it's original mission. I commend those who have the backbone to keep the "secret". Not all concepts of pen turning has to be shared. I believe if a couple of folks think outside the box then hats off to them. Do we all have the ability to break the code? Some do, Some don't. Remember, this ain't XBOX where you can go buy a cheat code book. Are those sending nasty messages wearing a "lazy man's" yoke?

:mad:Maybe I'm just rambling but it chaps my hide to hear of people abusing others concerning something they can't figure out. Who called Henry Ford abusing him cause he wouldn't tell them how to build a car? Do I know how to make a HB360? Do I wanna know? Heck no! As stated before, I'd rather buy one. But as also stated, "they aren't 90 anymore". Happy guys? Because of the foolishness or cheapness of a few, all others suffer.

Just my nickle worth.
 

arioux

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdonald
I think it would have taken all the fun out of it if I went down with a printout of step by step instructions, kinda like figuring out the rubik's cube!

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
~Steve Cape Coral, FL


Funny that no ones seems to have picked up that one !! :)
 
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twoofakind

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I've got it figured out after about three hours in the shop and several failed attempts. That being said this is not a blank for begginers,IMHO. As said in the post above, and I do hope you try it, please practice shop safety. There are lots of small pieces that can turn into projectiles, not to mention your fingers can get close to the blade. Just be safe and take precautions.
 
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