ThinkTank: The 360 Herringbone Experiment

[wolftat]

I think I got a little ambitious with my first blank, I made them ~1/8" thick....I thought I would never get finished with that thing! The one I'm working on now I made the pieces a little thicker. I need to get a thicker blade for the band saw as I am losing a bunch in the thickness of the blade, for every cut I make I lose almost as much as I keep.
Andy

1/8" is a good size. I am doing all my cutting with a Laguna Resaw King blade and while this blade isn't the thinest blade I have ever used, it is very accurate for what I am doing. You will lose a lot of wood making these blanks, they are definetely not for those that are worried about the amount of wood it takes. I figure that every 360 takes about 3-4 full size blanks to make one. Right now, I am considering making one out of cocobolo burl but I really have to think about that one.

 

[handplane]

After trying to do this in Skectchup for a while I got out the old pencil, ruler, compass, and prtractor and figured it out in about 30 minutes. At least with cardboard, tape, and CA. Not sure if I will do it in wood yet. I can see the need for some accurate cutting sleds and a lot of patience.

 

[twoofakind]

Once the cats out of the bag it will be interesting to see how many ways this can be done. I've got a couple started now, but I paused all my turning to try and straighten the garage up a little. So many projects, so little time...

 

[hewunch]

1/8" is a good size. I am doing all my cutting with a Laguna Resaw King blade and while this blade isn't the thinest blade I have ever used, it is very accurate for what I am doing. You will lose a lot of wood making these blanks, they are definetely not for those that are worried about the amount of wood it takes. I figure that every 360 takes about 3-4 full size blanks to make one. Right now, I am considering making one out of cocobolo burl but I really have to think about that one.

I would think you would lose a bunch of the figuring if you did that.

 

[darrylm]

hewunch is right. with 1/8th" segments you do lose figuring. That's why I've always stuck with more or less solid colored woods in my segmentation. I'll save the figured stuff for flat work or larger turnings.

now to spend some time working on this 360HB...

 

[skiprat]

:redface:
So you think 1/8 is too thin huh?:biggrin:
I'm busy building another one now ( well, on and off for the last few days )
I've done 31 layers of 8 and it still is less than 25mm long
I estimate that the first and last 30 layers will be the un-usable waste as the top of my first layer is just level with the bottom of my last one.
This could take me years to finish:redface:

 

[darrylm]

no Mr Skiprat, I never said 1/8 is too thin! I personally just wouldn't bother using Wenge or Zebrawood in a piece like that.

can't wait to see what you've got going on though!

 

[Greg O'Sherwood]

I've watched this thread for a while now, but never got involved in trying to do the 360HB. Last weekend, our family got some bad news and my way of dealing with things is to get away (after everyone else is in bed) and immerse myself in something.

I started at 10:40pm with my kids building blocks to get a rough idea of the problem. I switched to paper and pen after 20 minutes once the mathematics gears in my head started whirring (I was a mathematics major for a few years). 30 minutes later I had the pattern solved, but had gaps at the corners between the blank and the tube. Fixing that took another 5 minutes after I realized I could cut the pieces from a predrilled blank (or cast to fill the gaps). I got to bed at about 4:10am. I do need to clean up the cuts next time.

First, I'd like to thank the OP for starting this discussion.
2nd,thanks to those of you who know how to do it for not just putting a tutorial out there. You provided me a much needed escape for a few hours. This includes those who are sworn to secrecy and kept their word. NO ONE SHOULD ASK A MAN TO BREAK HIS WORD.

Soon enough, there will be a tutorial somewhere and then this will be public domain. It IS a lot of work.

 

[Don Gaiser]

Well, it took about 2 hours, but using Lightwave I have figured out how to build the 360 HB. Looking at it, I imagine you are looking at hours and hours of tedious work to complete.

 

[NewLondon88]

:redface:
So you think 1/8 is too thin huh?:biggrin:
I'm busy building another one now ( well, on and off for the last few days )
I've done 31 layers of 8 and it still is less than 25mm long
I estimate that the first and last 30 layers will be the un-usable waste as the top of my first layer is just level with the bottom of my last one.
This could take me years to finish:redface:

We don't consider construction paper and Elmer's glue to be 'segmenting'...
.. but nice try, Skip :tongue:

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I think that this a great thread. One question if I may. Can you make the HB360 as a 4 sided pattern?

 

[glycerine]

I think I have it mostly figured out. I don't have the angle quite right becuase I've got a gap.
I AM using triangles. When one layer is glued up, looking at it from the top reveals a star shape, but not necessarily 5 points. Until I get the angle right, I can't add any layers, but does it sound like I have the right idea?

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I haven't mastered it yet myself.I have come to the same conclusion as you. Triangles and a 5 pointed shape so I think you are on the right track,mine has a habit of twisting into a corkscrew as I put it together so I think I need a slighter angle.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

Solved the corkscrew problem, something that helped me is that when you have a valley in a roof the valley itself is a slightly different pitch than the roof. The angle of your cuts will not add up to 360.

 

[glycerine]

I have a blank glued up, just need to turn it now. Is anyone else still trying to figure this out or did I just join that game late?

 

[Displaced Canadian]

I was glad to see you, we both joined late. I haven't built a blank yet, have my first paying customer to take care of.arty: I would like to see another thread like this one, bounce around ideas, try something completely new. I'm thinking stained glass/murals you have any ideas?

 

[hewunch]

I glued up my blank last night. I can tell you that the width of your piece matters. My blank started out ~1.75" in diameter and I was using pieces that were ~.25" thick. When I got my blank round I was excited because it looked right. But when I got it closer to final size my rectangles became squares. So my suggestion is, try thin pieces.

 

[glycerine]

I was glad to see you, we both joined late. I haven't built a blank yet, have my first paying customer to take care of.arty: I would like to see another thread like this one, bounce around ideas, try something completely new. I'm thinking stained glass/murals you have any ideas?

No ideas yet really. I'm still fairly new at pen turning and want to start doing some segmented pens. I like the pens I've seen that incorporate wood and metal as well. What I'd like to see is a spiral pen blank, sort of like some of the candlesticks that are out there if you know what I mean. I have a feeling that just about anything could be done with a laser cutter...

 

[glycerine]

I glued up my blank last night. I can tell you that the width of your piece matters. My blank started out ~1.75" in diameter and I was using pieces that were ~.25" thick. When I got my blank round I was excited because it looked right. But when I got it closer to final size my rectangles became squares. So my suggestion is, try thin pieces.

I wasn't thinking of that... but my pieces were just over 1/8 I THINK, so hopefully it will "turn" out ok. I might also just use a large pen.

 

[glycerine]

I think that this a great thread. One question if I may. Can you make the HB360 as a 4 sided pattern?

I think you CAN, but it would be harder to get the angles just right.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

Good to know about the thickness of the pieces, I'll start with 1/8 or less and see what happens. I'm planing to make a decorative band instead of a whole blank.
Robert Sorbey makes a chisel that can cut spirals then you could use a resin like materiel to fill in the groves. It may be possible to do a spiral with wood pieces working in a 360 degree pattern. I'm new to pen turning as well but not to woodworking. Next for me on the drawing board is a shark made with straight cuts, I don't own a bandsaw.

 

[Kaspar]

No..I'm just making a jig to mass produce 8 sided herringbone blanks...

That would seem to be the correct approach. The picture on the first page really appears to be a four side herringbone, with the same sides opposing each other. It may not be a truly radial herringbone pattern, but it's a slick piece of work bespeaking great talent, no question.

To make it truly radial would, I think require compound angles and / or radial cuts, possibly on very small pieces. (I am doing something similar to this now to make end caps and a centerband on a closed end job that I hope to show in the not-to-distant future.) Of course, the more sides you put on square, the closer it comes to approximating a circle. Get enough sides going around your pen tube, and once you round it down, it will surly be 'radial' enough.

 

[glycerine]

I finally did it!

 

[gad5264]

Jeremy, that is a great looking pen. The combination of turquoise and wood is stunning.

 

[glycerine]

Jeremy, that is a great looking pen. The combination of turquoise and wood is stunning.

Thank you!

 

[LarryDNJR]

Whew

I finally read through this whole thread. Interesting read and I know I'm a little late in posting a comment to it.

I do want to say glycerine (Jeremy) that is a mighty fine piece of work you did with that pen. Awe-inspiring work!

I just recently started to tinker with attempting to make similar style of pens myself. It is truly fascinating.

 

[PaulDoug]

:beat-up:Ahhh,thanks a lot Larry for opening this thread again, I quit trying a long time ago on this because it gave me such a headache, broke out in a rash and started drinking. Now I have a headache again, rash is back and, oh where is that bottle....

I just have to come to grips with it, I am one of the deficiently challenged people:crying:

 

[glycerine]

I finally read through this whole thread. Interesting read and I know I'm a little late in posting a comment to it.

I do want to say glycerine (Jeremy) that is a mighty fine piece of work you did with that pen. Awe-inspiring work!

I just recently started to tinker with attempting to make similar style of pens myself. It is truly fascinating.

Thanks!

 

[Rfturner]

I am a late starter on this one I have been following the thread, I have been so busy that I have not attempted it but i do have several ideas how so far. I agree with many of the people on mass production fears. I have designed blanks from scratch before and the first person that creates a design has the most time invested into it. From that point of view I cautiously put things up that I do not want copied. I offer advice to those that ask and encourage newer turners but Some things are meant to be shared and some things I learned the hard way but it forced me to understand. I appreciate this as not just a tutorial I feel that it makes one not fully appreciate it.