rotary tables for a mill

[stuckinohio]

So,

I have been not doing so well at my clip making attempts. Most of the problems are coming from rounding the clip. I stumbled upon some videos of guys making clips and rounding the radius with a mill and rotary table. I've wanted a rotary table for a while and now I REALLY want one.

Any particular tables to stay away from or for that matter buy? I figure I would get a whole set-up with dividing plates and chuck. I see that LMS sells a good deal of them. Just curious where else to get them.

any features I should be looking to get or stay away from as well?

This will be mounted on my PM727V mill.

 

[magpens]

When you say "rounding the clip" are you referring to making the ring-shaped part, through which a pushbutton or a screw threaded finial goes ?

As for a rotary table, I would recommend one that has a "hinge" so that you can use it horizontally, vertically, or in between.

I have one like that onto which I mount a 4-jaw chuck with independent jaw adjustments. I would have preferred a self-centering 4-jaw but I have not yet found one to go on a rotary table of "my" size which is called a 4-inch but may be a little smaller. A 4-jaw is preferrable to a 3-jaw, in my opinion, because it can be used like a vise.

I bought mine from Busy Bee Tools, a Canadian company smaller than, but similar to, Harbor Freight or Grizzly. It was only about $150 and you can get the rotary table plus chuck combo for about $220. For what I do, it is adequate. I do not have dividing plates or a tailstock for this rotary table, but I know you can buy sets with those included.

A Taiwan company makes some nice sets ... brand name Vertex ... but more expensive. Not sure they are actually called "rotary tables" but they do mostly the same jobs.

 

[stuckinohio]

Mal,

you are correct about what I mean by rounding the clip.
I didn't know you had a rotary table or knew about them! I have seen the Vertex tables and read that they are made in Taiwan and reportedly better than the Chinese made rotary tables.

How do chucks mount on it these tables? do they simply bolt down?

 

[stuckinohio]

I think the one with the "hinge" is called a dividing head?

 

[magpens]

The Vertex is different from the others ... you have to buy a separate lathe-style chuck with an MT2 or MT3 arbor sticking out the back of the chuck. The main part has a MT2 or MT3 hole, and the body rotates on a horizontal axis to tilt. You don't have to use the usual lathe-type chuck on it. For small work you can use a Jacobs chuck with arbor. I don't think you can do rotation about 2 axes, just one; but I could be wrong. I have seen one at the tool store I go to and they have still not sold it after a couple of years so perhaps it is not as useful as I think but it sure does look nice.

The others have the conventional round, flat table with 4 (or for the big ones, 6) T-slots allowing you to bolt things down.

As for the term "hinge", I made that up. The one I am thinking of is still called a rotary table; there are two parts ... the rotary table, and then the base. The two are connected on one side by the hinges (just two tabs with holes, a rod, and the horizontal hole in the base that the rod goes through). The tab parts fit over the edges of the base and the rod slides through the tab holes and the horizontal hole in the base.

Even with a rotary table that is not hinged, you can mount it vertically and in that position you might call it a dividing head because you can usually buy a tailstock for it, and, for certain ones the dividing plates.

The Vertex is different ... you should really google to see how that one works

I forgot to tell you that I had this. Again, I knew I would need one eventually, so I bought one even before I met you !! Have only started to use it.

 

[stuckinohio]

You've been finding uses for a lot of tools that you bought quite some time ago lately! Gotta love that

Thank you for the info. What do you think the advantage of one that swivels would be over a typical rotary table is? I'm still trying to figure out the exact difference. I think it would be that with the swivel or tilting one you can do all angles, but with a typical rotary table you can only do straight up or 90 degrees?

 

[magpens]

Well, I like to keep my options open so I went for the hinged one. I have not used that feature yet. Have only used in the horizontal position for conventional vertical milling.

Of course, you have one more thing to worry about ... overall inaccuracy due to the hinge mechanism which is only locked in position by a hand-operated lever/set screw.

I also bought (some time ago) a "5C spin index". It is useful for doing vertical milling on a horizontal workpiece ... for example, making a hexagonal rod out of a round one ... or you could do a five-sided rod if you want ... quite versatile. You need a set of 5C collets to hold the round workpiece and you can also get 5C collets to hold square, or even hexagonal, rods.

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/spin-index-5-c.html

 

[bmachin]

Lewis,

Vertex rotary tables are available here although the 6 inch are out of stock for 45 to 60 days.

Search

Stefan Gotteswinter has a YouTube video on rebuilding a Vertex rotary table; not that he really needed to--he rebuilds everything.

Bill

 

[magpens]

Bill and Lewis,

I like the look of this Vertex. It is different from the one I saw.

If I could get one like in this picture I would ... in addition to what I already have.

ACCURA/VERTEX ATRT-006 6 INCH UNIVERSAL TILTING ROTARY TABLE

One thing you have to worry about with this design is the clearance between your tool bit and the workpiece when you use an angle above the horizontal ... especially if you make it vertical. The unit is quite tall and that's a problem for me with such a small mill.

Lewis, if it would fit between your spindle and the mill table I would seriously consider this unit or one like it. Only thing I don't like in what I can see in the picture is that there are only 3 T-slots on the rotary table. I would prefer 4 T-slots, for reasons I am not even sure of. Otherwise it looks great and probably better than anything I have previously seen.

Thanks for posting this, Bill.

 

[stuckinohio]

Lewis,

Vertex rotary tables are available here although the 6 inch are out of stock for 45 to 60 days.

Search

Stefan Gotteswinter has a YouTube video on rebuilding a Vertex rotary table; not that he really needed to--he rebuilds everything.

Bill

Bill, thank you for that link. I wonder why they don't offer a combo package. I finally found their dividing plates and tail stocks that they sell. kind of buried! And I will check out that video from Stefan. I do love watching them!

Bill and Lewis,

I like the look of this Vertex. It is different from the one I saw.

If I could get one like in this picture I would ... in addition to what I already have.

ACCURA/VERTEX ATRT-006 6 INCH UNIVERSAL TILTING ROTARY TABLE

One thing you have to worry about with this design is the clearance between your tool bit and the workpiece when you use an angle above the horizontal ... especially if you make it vertical. The unit is quite tall and that's a problem for me with such a small mill.

Lewis, if it would fit between your spindle and the mill table I would seriously consider this unit or one like it. Only thing I don't like in what I can see in the picture is that there are only 3 T-slots on the rotary table. I would prefer 4 T-slots, for reasons I am not even sure of. Otherwise it looks great and probably better than anything I have previously seen.

Thanks for posting this, Bill.

Mal, fortunately my mill has 18 inches of clearance at the max between table and spindle, also one of the reasons I bought it. Wouldn't have a problem there. I like the thought of the ability to tilt at any angle.

I have a lot of research to do!

 

[mredburn]

You might take a look at SHerline brand rotary tables and their accessories. They have a hinged plate made to mount their rotary table on. It may give you an idea of what to build should you decide to make one your self. Their rotary table has an adapter that will allow a 3/4-16 threaded chuck to be mounted on it. Taig and Sherline both make chucks that will fit it. Im not sure how it will fit in with your plans price wise but it will give you some more options.

A quick check of Ebay searching for tilting rotary tables starting at $69. Made in India.

 

[stuckinohio]

Mike,

I'm so glad you responded. I literally was just thinking you would have some info!

I will definitely check Sherline out. It can be so confusing trying to figure out this stuff without having hands on experience.

Oh, and thank you for posting this thread and all the other info you have contributed over the years. I also saw your generous offer to the guy on Facebook to refund his money as a result of the possible group buy. So many of the members have benefited from the generosity of you and many other key members of this forum.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f56/working-modifying-schmidt-click-mechanism-127370/

I ran across this a couple years ago but never got around to doing the mod. Tossing it around now.

 

[bmachin]

Another source for the Vertex table is here:

Vertex Horizontal/Vertical Low Profile Rotary Tables - Penn Tool Co., Inc

Full Vertex (Taiwan) catalog is here:

VERTEX-MILLING-GRINDING-TOOLING-CNC-LATHE-GRINDER

Penn's prices are substantially higher than Accura.

I have no experience with Penn. I purchased the transport belt for my Performax drum sander from Accura with no problems.

FWIW
Bill

 

[mredburn]

I use a lot of Taig aluminum jaw chucks. I can mill the chuck jaws for special purposes and just change out jaws if I need to.They are not as expensive as the Sherline brand, are USA made, come in 3 and 4 jaw scroll and have a 4 jaw independent jaw chuck as well. I take a 1 inch steel bar and make my own straight shaft mounts for them. I index them to my 6 in chuck and the turn the threads and then tru the jaws on the smaller chuck before removing it. When I need to use them I only have to re align the indexing marks.

If you do the click mechanism mod, wrap a small piece of tape on the shaft above the grooves to clamp down on with the collet. The shafts can be slightly thinner and it grips the back of the shaft by the grooves and snaps the shaft off. THe tape, even one turn around the shaft will allow the collet to grip right under the head.

 

[stuckinohio]

Bill, By looking at Accura page, it seems that the Vertex chuck uses a backing plate and the chuck bolts to the plate, then the plate to the table. Is that correct?

Mike,

Thank you for the extra tip on the clicker shaft. Good to know! The Sherline tilting plate is very cool. Seems inexpensive too. I like the idea of interchangeable jaws as well and the chuck mount seems simple as well with the threaded adapter.

Do you see it as a limitation that the Sherline table is only 4"? I feel like I would mostly be using a chuck anyways, so not too sure I need a huge table for what I would be doing with it right now.

 

[mredburn]

I have not had an issue with the size, it would depend more on what your going to use it for outside of pen making that would affect its limitations.

 

[stuckinohio]

Mal,

This would be what you are talking about correct? It is appealing the package deal is decent price. Seems like it would do what I want for now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BS-0-5-Ind...m=112262120558&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

 

[magpens]

Yes, Lewis, that is the one .... the BS-0.

And that price is very good. At the tool store near me the price is $599 CDN which is exorbitant, IMHO, and probably the reason it is still on display after 2 years or so.

You need to be sure it will do what you want. Notice the MT2 hole. For Jacobs chuck arbor, or for a lathe chuck with arbor on back.

EDIT: . Wait a minute .... that is not the VERTEX which is made in Taiwan. The one your link references is a copy from China.
But it seems to already have the lathe chuck .... if everything comes together as shown in the pic. You can never tell for sure from an eBay ad ... it is so confusing the way all the eBay ads follow pre-designed templates these days.

I see that the chuck has a backing plate that threads onto the body of the dividing head ... no arbor needed ... that is good. I think the thread is 1.5" x 8 tpi if it is the same as the one I saw in the store.

Be sure to check the headstock taper. I see MT2 in one place and "Headstock Taper: 7 B&S" in another (not familiar with the latter).

It is good that it is "100% Brand New" ... LOL !

It says that dividing plates are included .... but they are not shown in the pics as far as I can see.

Brand name is Vevor ... NOT Vertex

 

[magpens]

This is the Vertex one at my tool store ... Grizzly sells it ... no lathe chuck, though

Dividing Head - Type BS-0 | Grizzly Industrial

 

[magpens]

I rather like this one from Vertex also. It is the one I liked from Bill's post and it is available at Amazon.

But for me the shipping and import cost of $152 is a killer.

https://www.amazon.com/VERTEX-Universal-Tilting-Rotary-Various/dp/B01IATEOCW

 

[magpens]

Here is another Vertex look-alike dividing head from Amazon; brand name Mophorn

$309 with free shipping in US. . "Further Details" lists 3 dividing plates.

The one from eBay ($256 ?) with $20 shipping would be cheaper.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAQ0S6...2Q&pd_rd_r=6427E11775NGKC2BY0A3&pd_rd_w=ia8L0

 

[bmachin]

Lewis,

Don't have one yet, so don't know for sure. But it looks to me like the three jaw just bolts through the three holes on the face of the chuck into the T-slots.

Been wrong before.

Amazon shows the 6" Vertex available at (I think) $269.95 from Precision Matthews.

 

[stuckinohio]

Yeah, I figured I was not a vertex, and I have read that vertex is slightly better product, but I'm wondering if i need to be concerned with durability and extreme accuracy for what I plan on using it for now. I hope to use it for other things, but no idea what those are right now. Might be nice to save some money.

I too like the ones you favor but they are really pricey, unless you get the ones from India on the slow boat...

 

[stuckinohio]

Lewis,

Don't have one yet, so don't know for sure. But it looks to me like the three jaw just bolts through the three holes on the face of the chuck into the T-slots.

Been wrong before.

Amazon shows the 6" Vertex available at (I think) $269.95 from Precision Matthews.

Oh, I will check that out for sure. Thank you!

 

[stuckinohio]

This Taig stuff is very interesting. I was not aware of all the things they make. Thanks for that Mike!

 

[Tom Walter]

I have a couple rotary tables, both from Grizzly. One has a dividing index head and one tilts. Both are very well made and work well. You can buy a combo set for Grizzly that has everything included even the tailstock. They work very well for clips, faceted bodies and caps, and other milling operations. You need to tram the chuck very well before use.

Grizzly offers a wide array of types and sizes of rotary tables and chucks at reasonable prices. They have a 5% discount on right now for military and veterans.


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