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Old 02-27-2017, 06:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Realistic Cigar SNAFU.. Please help:(

Well by dumb luck my first one turned out pretty good, and since then everything has gone wrong. I can't seem to drill either a straight hole or a proper hole, NONE of my pens are lining up properly. I have followed the instructions that Wood Butcher so graciously made, and still my pens only fit right when twisted on only one way. You have to line up the threads just right or it becomes off round.

I am using:
Rikon 12-16 lathe
60 degree live tail
4 Prong Drive center
Heavy Duty 1/2" Keyed Lathe Drill Chuck #2 MT
or E32 Collet

I round the blank, part it with a parting tool on the lathe. Then I find the center of the two halves with a Robert Larson 800-2875 Plastic Center Finder and use either a collet I just purchased or a 4 Jaw Lathe chuck and drill the appropriate holes. I follow the rest of the instructions and this is what I get 9 out of 10 times.

Man..... I've tried everything, bought every tool I can think of to fix this. I'm just tired of wasting nice wood. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!

This is what it looks like when the right thread of the triple start is lined up propperly.

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This is what it looks like when it's not.

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Lined up propperly.

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Not so much.

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Thanks for looking. Please help me unjack my universe.
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Old 02-27-2017, 06:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Could be one or the other or both are off center/out of round. How are you turning the two sections?
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Old 02-27-2017, 06:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Vic View Post
Could be one or the other or both are off center/out of round. How are you turning the two sections?
I glue the Buckeye and the wood of choice together into about a 6.5" blank. Mark the center of each end and turn it as one piece. Once it's round I part it to the proper length per the instructions from Wood Butcher.
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Old 02-27-2017, 07:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Pulled up the instructions. If you were turning on a mandrel I'd say it was bent or you had out of round bushings. Are your head and tail stock aligned? Off a bit could make the pen a bit elliptical. If you have calipers available try check the pen to see if it is truly round. Just kind of tossing some ideas out. Never tried one but now may have to.
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Old 02-27-2017, 07:50 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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The threads spear to be multiple start threads so the cap must be started at only place to align the way you want...double, triple, or quad start threads.

As for out of round there are several causes. Sending is often ignored but sanding can cause perfectly round pen barrels to become out if round because of the grain o opposite sides of the pen barrel.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
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Old 02-27-2017, 08:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by its_virgil View Post
The threads spear to be multiple start threads so the cap must be started at only place to align the way you want...double, triple, or quad start threads.

As for out of round there are several causes. Sending is often ignored but sanding can cause perfectly round pen barrels to become out if round because of the grain o opposite sides of the pen barrel.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
Don,

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure what you mean by the double triple or quad thread start. The threads are from a kit and most kits are triple start. The first pen like this I finished had triple threads and even though the grain didn't align everything was round. Now every cigar pen I complete is only round when I glue the tubes in and screw it together.
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Old 02-27-2017, 08:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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As I understand it, you use the Robert Larson to find the centers to drill for the tubes after you have rounded the blanks.

That's OK if the rounded blanks have not been turned down to size.

I would leave them larger than desired, do the drilling, glue the tubes in, trim the excess end wood to the brass tube ends, and then mount the blanks between centers for the turning down to size.

On my lathe, I put a cone in the headstock and a live center in the tailstock and put the drilled (and tubed) blank between the cone and the live center.

That process ensures that your turned blank is centered on your brass tubes.

I would glue the "ashes" on as the last step, or the last step before finishing.

I may not be completely understanding everything you wrote.
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Old 02-27-2017, 08:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by magpens View Post
As I understand it, you use the Robert Larson to find the centers to drill for the tubes after you have rounded the blanks.

That's OK if the rounded blanks have not been turned down to size.

I would leave them larger than desired, do the drilling, and then mount the blanks between centers for the turning down to size.

On my lathe, I put a cone in the headstock and a live center in the tailstock and put the drilled (and tubed) blank between the cone and the live center.

That process ensures that your turned blank is centered on your brass tubes.
I actually use the Robert Larson twice. I use it to find the center of the square blank to ensure I'm turning it between centers. Then I turn it round, and part it with a parting tool. I again use the Robert Larson to find the center of the rounded parts to drill the holes.

I have tried to glue the tubes in and screw them together and turning it to final dimensions again on the lathe and still can't get it to always be round. I was starting to think maybe it's the slop in the drilling as indicated in the pictures. It looks to me that the tubes are not center once glued. Does this have anything to do with the parts not aligning round?
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Old 02-27-2017, 08:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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If you use the Robert Larson a second time after turning the blanks down to size, your "second centers" will never coincide with the "first centers".

You should do the turning down to size only after the actual centers have been unalterably defined, the holes have been drilled, and the tubes have been glued in.

I apologize if I am not fully understanding.

If you are using a collet or a 4-jaw chuck when you do the drilling of the already rounded blanks you should not have to mark the centers ... the collet or chuck will define the centers for you.
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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If you use the Robert Larson a second time after turning the blanks down to size, your "second centers" will never coincide with the "first centers".

.
That would explain why I had so much instability yesterday when I tried again. I could tell something was off but I couldn't figure out why.

So I should measure center ONCE, turn to desired dimension and just collet it and drill. Right?

Last edited by Flush1974; 02-27-2017 at 09:20 PM.
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