Making custom clips - one method

[Texatdurango]

I’m working on a pen design and want to make a matching center band and clip. One method I want to try is to use PMC or Precious Metal Clay. The particular clay I chose is .999 fine silver and should look pretty nice when finished.

I could make a clip from scratch and will sooner or later but for this first one I already have one I really like BUT the ring is designed to show and I want to hide my clip ring and only show the clip.

So what do you do when the clip you like has too large of a ring and a clip you don’t like has the perfect ring? Easy, just make a mold of each clip, fashion some PMC then join the two pieces then fire the clip assembly.

The result is a nice silver clip with an inner ring of my choosing.

I will be working on this off and on the next few days and just started the molds for the clips tonight.

This really not meant to be a tutorial but to give anyone interested an idea of what to expect. With PMC selling for $1.50 a gram you don’t want to learn by trial and error. I would recommend getting with a PMC instructor in your area, take a lesson for a few hours then you will be where I am today. Here are some photos showing the progress to give you an idea of how things are going. I will add to them as I progress.

My favorite clip on the left and a clip from another kit.

Here you can see the large ring that I don't want and the smaller ring I do want.

Here is the clip making an imprint in the mold.

Here is the mold ready for the PMC

Here is the other clip making an impression for the smaller ring.

The mold is ready to form the small clip section

If all goes well tomorrow, I will join the two pieces and fire them as one new clip.

 

[Firefyter-emt]

MORE INFO PLEASE!!! I have three Esterbrooks sitting in my repair box that all need clips... I wonder if this method could work. Either way, I love the idea!

 

[Texatdurango]

Originally posted by Firefyter-emt

MORE INFO PLEASE!!! I have three Esterbrooks sitting in my repair box that all need clips... I wonder if this method could work. Either way, I love the idea!

Well, we'll find out in a few days, possibly even tomorrow. I think it will work just fine. I ordered a small rock tumbler and some stainless steel shot to tumble the silver parts to make them harder.

 

[Ligget]

WOW! Great thinking, I`ll be following this thread too![]

 

[thewishman]

Nice idea! My only concern is for the shrinkage factor, though I've read that the new PMC shrinks less that the original.

Good luck, George!

Chris

 

[R2]

Well I never!!
Great stuff Tex11

 

[Proud_Poppa_of_2]

My concern with using PMC for a clip is its lack of tensile strength. How does tumbling give the metal additional strength? I thought the only purpose for tumbling fired PMC was to polish or burnish the metal.

 

[bosipipes]

Interesting First topic.
Like the others, I'm anticipating the out come.
This is a problem for me that I am working on myself.
I NEED A CLIP FOR MY PENS

 

[Texatdurango]

Originally posted by Proud_Poppa_of_2

My concern with using PMC for a clip is its lack of tensile strength. How does tumbling give the metal additional strength? I thought the only purpose for tumbling fired PMC was to polish or burnish the metal.

I've got an idea, why don't you research to find out how much tensile strength is required for a clip and how tumbling silver with stainless steel shot work hardens the metal? In the meantime I'll continue with making the clip and we'll share our findings as we go along. I'd be interested to learn what you find out about the strength.

 

[Tanner]

Excellent George! I'll be keeping my eye on this Topic as well.

 

[Proud_Poppa_of_2]

Originally posted by Texatdurango

Originally posted by Proud_Poppa_of_2

My concern with using PMC for a clip is its lack of tensile strength. How does tumbling give the metal additional strength? I thought the only purpose for tumbling fired PMC was to polish or burnish the metal.

I've got an idea, why don't you research to find out how much tensile strength is required for a clip and how tumbling silver with stainless steel shot work hardens the metal? In the meantime I'll continue with making the clip and we'll share our findings as we go along. I'd be interested to learn what you find out about the strength.

I guess I walked right into that one! I'm going to start a new thread to discuss the strength issue.

 

[alamocdc]

Since I am interested in this and have been following this thread, I decided to do a little research myself. This pdf file shows the correlation between firing time and tensile strength & density. The result is interesting. It's also intersting to note that PMC3 has the highest tensile strength of the three types available.

Concerning tumbling, I found this (fourth question). Apparently tumbling with polished steel shot compresses the surface of the silver. I'm not positive that it "hardens" the silver all that much, but it will make it more shiney and makes for better soldering.

So it sounds to me like you're on to something, George. [8D]

Okay, where did I put that Adult Education catalog? Off to find me a jewelry making class that teaches PMC.

 

[Texatdurango]

Billy, Thanks for the links. When I took my class, the tumbling was discussed not so much as a way of cleaning parts but as a way of making the parts harder and stronger. I'm just going on what an experienced jewelry artist taught me. Perhaps the work hardening is a side benefit of the tumbling that most jewelry makers are not concerned with.

Yours and the other posts above are great, they show that instead of just reading and saying "show me more", we can get together and wrap our arms around issues and figure them out together.

Anyone else want to volunteer and look into why tumbling .999 fine silver with stainless steel shot makes it stronger, if it does at all? My concern with the silver was it's "springyness" in order to act as a nice functional clip but my instructor saw no concern at all.

Here are some links that helped me, perhaps they will be useful to you as well.

http://www.pmcconnection.com/ Has a map showing where there are instructors across the country.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MetalClay/ Is a Yahoo group which discusses metal clay and is where I found out about the instructor in my area.

http://www.cooltools.us/category-s/33.htm Has some links to finding instructors and the best prices on tools and clay that I have found so far.

 

[retired-sofa-spud]

George, this site had some good tips on both joining and hardening your pmc3. http://www.hollygage.com/pages/techniques_s_z.html

 

[rixstix]

I don't claim to be anywhere near an expert, but LOML weaves argentium sterling chainmaille almost daily. When she tumbles a finished piece too long, the woven wire becomes so hard/stiff that she cannot 'undo' or correct abnormalities. She stopped questioning the various attributes of work hardening when she proved it with pieces taken out of the tumbler after 3 hours vs 8 hours.

She hasn't found anyplace (yet) that is less expensive than PMC Supply for any of her PMC or ArtClay. Beehive kilns are cute too.

 

[SuperDave]

I like the clip you chose. When you tumble, you need to protect the ridge detail on the tear-drop design from rounding over too much. I read that you can put it in a small, HD plastic bag but than you also lose the ability to get the gloss finish you want... assuming that is your goal. I suppose constant checking to see if it is altering the profile is in order.

What about a vibratory process rather than tumbling? I suppose one could tumble to work harden the clip and once the detail was being altered, switch to a vibrating process to get the finish you want. Thinking out loud... so to speak

Interesting thread!

 

[Aderhammer]

George, Do you need to fire the two together? Should solder hold the clip to the ring?

 

[Darley]

I will follow this thread George look you're on a good path, what did you use for the clip mould? wax?

 

[SuperDave]

Originally posted by Aderhammer

George, Do you need to fire the two together? Should solder hold the clip to the ring?

Silver Solder might be in order. In fact, sacrificing a couple of clips and Silver Soldering the two components together; clean up the soldered area and make a one piece mold might be a thought.

 

[ldb2000]

Hi Everyone
I love this.
How about if you make the clip parts out of resin first (a master clip) then put them together and make the molds from this master clip

 

[follow3]

Hey Tex,

What material are you using for the mold?

Steve

Originally posted by Texatdurango

I’m working on a pen design and want to make a matching center band and clip. One method I want to try is to use PMC or Precious Metal Clay. The particular clay I chose is .999 fine silver and should look pretty nice when finished.

I could make a clip from scratch and will sooner or later but for this first one I already have one I really like BUT the ring is designed to show and I want to hide my clip ring and only show the clip.

So what do you do when the clip you like has too large of a ring and a clip you don’t like has the perfect ring? Easy, just make a mold of each clip, fashion some PMC then join the two pieces then fire the clip assembly.

The result is a nice silver clip with an inner ring of my choosing.

I will be working on this off and on the next few days and just started the molds for the clips tonight.

This really not meant to be a tutorial but to give anyone interested an idea of what to expect. With PMC selling for $1.50 a gram you don’t want to learn by trial and error. I would recommend getting with a PMC instructor in your area, take a lesson for a few hours then you will be where I am today. Here are some photos showing the progress to give you an idea of how things are going. I will add to them as I progress.

My favorite clip on the left and a clip from another kit.

Here you can see the large ring that I don't want and the smaller ring I do want.

Here is the clip making an imprint in the mold.

Here is the mold ready for the PMC

Here is the other clip making an impression for the smaller ring.

The mold is ready to form the small clip section

If all goes well tomorrow, I will join the two pieces and fire them as one new clip.

 

[Texatdurango]

The material I used for the mold is a silicone impression compound called Mega-Sil.

Well the firing or torching is done and the results aren't as good as I had expected. My molds cound have been better because there was a good bit of cleanup which would have been easier if the mold edges were cleaner. The shrinkage was a little more than expected. I was hoping for around 10 to 12% but I measured five areas and they all shrank evenly right at 14%.

I didn't bother mating the ring to the clip since it's a bit smaller than I wanted and the ring would take half an hour or so just to get it lookng good, not time I want to spend since I already found out what I needed to know.

The clip is a little more pliable than the center band I made last week and at least I'll know in a few days when my tumbler and stainless steel shot arrive whether the silver does indeed harden when tumbled.

Several folks on a PMC forum suggested reinforcing the silver with a sterling wire to give it ridgity but if I'm going to go to that trouble, I'd just as soon make the clips from sterling to begin with.

So, it looks like this has been a good lesson, and while the PMC is suitable for making centerbands and accent rings, clips won't be good candidates without some sort of reinforcing material embedded into the clay.

Sorry to get everyone's hopes up but it was fun doing this little experiment and at least I (we) learned something. The good news is that the PMC centerband I made looks great with the rhodium kit clips.

If anyone is trying different materials or methods, it would be nice to here about them.

Here is how the clip turned out with a little filing then buffing.

 

[btboone]

I have a wax printer and will probably be printing a wax master of a clip for Dan Furlano to be lost wax cast. The shrinkage should be pretty small. I did some titanium parts, and they came out dead nuts to theoretical sizing. Casting titanium is very expensive, but stainless or silver is a lot more reasonable. You could try filling your mold with wax and doing lost wax casting. The surface detail should remain good.

 

[djz9]

Bruce
I just looked at your site, very nice rings. Could you tell me if you could mold A-Z in a Calligraphy type font? I have been kicking the idea of offering a letter on the clip in gold or silver. PMC might be the best media for this, since I could clean it up before I fire it, or putting the letter in a small oval with a little detail around it. I had no idea about a wax printer, and I am not sure if this is the type of work you can do, but it sounds better then working with clay and hand tools to make the mold. Please let me know what you think, and if you have any idea on the cost that would help. Thanks Dave

 

[DozerMite]

The temp. and firing time affect the outcome. For strength it should be fired at the highest temp. for the longest duration. However, this
creates the most shrinkage.

 

[Johnathan]

Don't give up on the idea. Just needs a bit of refining.

 

[ldb2000]

Ok lets keep this thread going .
George how about a piece if spring wire molded into the clip and sticking out at a right angle to be glued into holes in the cap body.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by Texatdurango

.....One method I want to try is to use PMC or Precious Metal Clay. The particular clay I chose is .999 fine silver and should look pretty nice when finished.....

I don't know the first thing about PMC so I am confused. .999 fine silver is essentially pure silver so where is the clay??

Whenever I hear the word clay and fire in the same sentence, it brings to mind an extremely brittle product. Some were questioning the tensile strength of the final product which really isn't of much concern for a pen clip. It just doesn't see a great deal of stress. What a clip needs is flexibility. The plastic on my 99¢ Papermate pen has very little tensile strength; but works just fine because it is flexible.

Can someone help me understand what is going on here?

 

[BRobbins629]

The PMC though called clay is actually very very fine particles of silver in a polymer binder. There are several version out there with binder concentrations ranging from about 8-12% binder. When fired, the binder burns off, the metal particles fuse leaving .999 silver. As the binder burns off it leaves some small voids but the whole product shrinks a little as well filling some of the void volume. PMC is a little more porous than pure silver but still is .999.

The issues we clip maker wanabees are having is not tensile strength, but hardness or really in scientific terms, elastic modulus. We want them to flex and return to their original shape, not bend. Tensile strength usually increases with increasing hardness, but you are correct - its not the property we desire.

 

[Randy_]

Thanks, Bruce. That explanation helps a lot!!

 

[Randy_]

George: If you haven't already seen it, there is a guild devoted to PMC use...... www.pmcguild.com .

Maybe you could chat with those people and discover solutions to some of your problems??