How to Make Watch Pens

[Skye]

Not to start this hubub up all over again, but he registered (was he awarded like they do patents?) for a Copyright, not a Patent.

The copyright protects the form of expression rather than the subject matter of the writing. For example, a description of a machine could be copyrighted, but this would only prevent others from copying the description; it would not prevent others from writing a description of their own or from making and using the machine. Copyrights are registered by the Copyright Office of the Library of Congress.

So, while I'm no lawyer, it seems to me he hold the Copyright on the idea of a watch blank but he can't prevent someone from making them.

 

[mick]

Does that mean that if he notified you then you would have to remove any photos of pens that he holds copyrights to? That would include watch part, cigar label, beer cap, and fly fishing pens. Sounds crazy to me.

When's he going to register a copyright for air?

 

[Russianwolf]

The copyright office also says this:

What is copyright infringement?
As a general matter, copyright infringement occurs when a copyrighted work is reproduced, distributed, performed, publicly displayed, or made into a derivative work without the permission of the copyright owner.

So if he didn't obtain permission from the original manufacturers, he could be in trouble himself.

and they also say this

When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Which would say to me that PSI and CSUSA and others who are selling blanks gleaned from artist of this site are infringing on their unregistered copyrights.

 

[DCBluesman]

I just got off the phone with my intellectual property rights lawyer. He's the one I used for my patent and my trademarks. I showed him the copy of Barry's copyright. According to my lawyer, Barry has rights in copy (that is the origination of the term copyright) to his 2-D image of that watch parts pen and work that is derivative of that 2-D image Note that the copyright notice specifically says that what is copyrighted is 2-dimensional artwork. The pen cannot be copyrighted. The pen cannot be trademarked. The pen may be able to qualify for a design patent BUT patents do not exist from the moment of creation, they must be applied for and issued. If Barry writes instructions, his instructions are protected under copyright. Anyone else can write their own instructions, as long as they are not derivative of Barry's instructions, and not violate copyright. FWIW, this counsel just cost me $400...almost as much as a good plumber would have been worth to Roy!

 

[rjwolfe3]

So are we free to make our own then?

 

[jeff]

Does that mean that if he notified you then you would have to remove any photos of pens that he holds copyrights to? That would include watch part, cigar label, beer cap, and fly fishing pens. Sounds crazy to me.

That's the theory, but it's not that simple.

Technically, he needs to prove he is the lawful copyright holder for every item to which he claims copyright. So, I could be a real pain about it, and ask for individual infringement notifications and proof for every item he claims.

For each item, I can just agree with his claim and remove the material, or deny his claim and wait for legal action. If he provided clear proof of ownership for something on our site which was a dead nuts copy of his stuff, then I guess I'd probably avoid the hassle and remove it.

If we get into the issue of "substantial similarity", and I wasn't satisfied that it was similar enough to be infringing, then I guess we'd find out who has the deeper pockets, Barry Gross, or the IAP members who decide to contribute to the legal defense fund :frown:

 

[Mark]

Sounds like you can make one, but not create a picture of it. :question:

 

[jeff]

I just got off the phone with my intellectual property rights lawyer. He's the one I used for my patent and my trademarks. I showed him the copy of Barry's copyright. According to my lawyer, Barry has rights in copy (that is the origination of the term copyright) to his 2-D image of that watch parts pen and work that is derivative of that 2-D image Note that the copyright notice specifically says that what is copyrighted is 2-dimensional artwork. The pen cannot be copyrighted. The pen cannot be trademarked. The pen may be able to qualify for a design patent BUT patents do not exist from the moment of creation, they must be applied for and issued. If Barry writes instructions, his instructions are protected under copyright. Anyone else can write their own instructions, as long as they are not derivative of Barry's instructions, and not violate copyright. FWIW, this counsel just cost me $400...almost as much as a good plumber would have been worth to Roy!

Lou just made his Birthday Bash contribution :biggrin:

Thanks, Lou.

Interpreting this relating to the IAP, we can't post a photo of Barry's pen, at least the one he has on his site. If I buy one and photograph it, I can post that image.

 

[DCBluesman]

Actually, Jeff, you probably CAN! According to
Copyright Law of the United States of America

and Related Laws Contained in Title 17 of the United States Code

Circular 92

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use40

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

I just got off the phone with my intellectual property rights lawyer. He's the one I used for my patent and my trademarks. I showed him the copy of Barry's copyright. According to my lawyer, Barry has rights in copy (that is the origination of the term copyright) to his 2-D image of that watch parts pen and work that is derivative of that 2-D image Note that the copyright notice specifically says that what is copyrighted is 2-dimensional artwork. The pen cannot be copyrighted. The pen cannot be trademarked. The pen may be able to qualify for a design patent BUT patents do not exist from the moment of creation, they must be applied for and issued. If Barry writes instructions, his instructions are protected under copyright. Anyone else can write their own instructions, as long as they are not derivative of Barry's instructions, and not violate copyright. FWIW, this counsel just cost me $400...almost as much as a good plumber would have been worth to Roy!

Lou just made his Birthday Bash contribution :biggrin:

Thanks, Lou.

Interpreting this relating to the IAP, we can't post a photo of Barry's pen, at least the one he has on his site. If I buy one and photograph it, I can post that image.

 

[DCBluesman]

So are we free to make our own then?

I'm not a lawyer, so I won't give YOU legal advice, however, I intend to start making such a pen immediately and I will offer it for sale. If someone claims I have violated their rights in copy, they can call or email me and I will refer them to my attorney.

 

[alphageek]

So are we free to make our own then?

I'm not a lawyer, so I won't give YOU legal advice, however, I intend to start making such a pen immediately and I will offer it for sale. If someone claims I have violated their rights in copy, they can call or email me and I will refer them to my attorney.

Interesting approach! I'll be very curious where this goes. You're taking this in a completely different direction than the previous thread. Are you gonna share your results here, Lou? (like in SOYP?)

 

[DCBluesman]

Yes, I will.

 

[arioux]

I just got off the phone with my intellectual property rights lawyer. He's the one I used for my patent and my trademarks. I showed him the copy of Barry's copyright. According to my lawyer, Barry has rights in copy (that is the origination of the term copyright) to his 2-D image of that watch parts pen and work that is derivative of that 2-D image Note that the copyright notice specifically says that what is copyrighted is 2-dimensional artwork. The pen cannot be copyrighted. The pen cannot be trademarked. The pen may be able to qualify for a design patent BUT patents do not exist from the moment of creation, they must be applied for and issued. If Barry writes instructions, his instructions are protected under copyright. Anyone else can write their own instructions, as long as they are not derivative of Barry's instructions, and not violate copyright. FWIW, this counsel just cost me $400...almost as much as a good plumber would have been worth to Roy!

Lou just made his Birthday Bash contribution :biggrin:

Thanks, Lou.

Interpreting this relating to the IAP, we can't post a photo of Barry's pen, at least the one he has on his site. If I buy one and photograph it, I can post that image.

Yes you can and you will be the owner of the copyright of this photo.

 

[darrin1200]

Thanks Lou

Your lawyers explanation seems to be the same as I understood copyright.

I can't wait to see the piece of art that you create.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

I've got the parts coming and I'll be posting one and putting it on my web-site.

 

[mick]

So are we free to make our own then?

I'm not a lawyer, so I won't give YOU legal advice, however, I intend to start making such a pen immediately and I will offer it for sale. If someone claims I have violated their rights in copy, they can call or email me and I will refer them to my attorney.

But will you take a picture of it? :biggrin:

 

[Gary Max]

Yup Roy--------------your package went out in todays mail.

We could always have a site wide contest-----SOYWP
Show off Your Watch Pen.

There was a company in Italy that made something like this years ago------would they be the folks to get permission from?

 

[GaryMGg]

Yup Roy--------------your package went out in todays mail.

We could always have a site wide contest-----SOYWP
Show off Your Watch Pen.

There was a company in Italy that made something like this years ago------would they be the folks to get permission from?

Count me in!
I'm copyrighting my idea right now:
I'm going to get a bunch of old watches, smash 'em to pieces, have one of you cast the parts with acrylic for me and call it "Time stands still" or, "The day the earth stood still."
:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Gary Max]

Just to help out-------MVV-----Super nice old watches for sale--:biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Russianwolf]

I had a cool idea thinking about this, and I'll share it as I would love to see it come to life faster than I'll be able to get to it.

Take the watch parts and heat them enough to stretch out of shape. Then make the pen. Kind of a "persistence of Memory" pen. :biggrin:

Have fun guys.

 

[alphageek]

I had a cool idea thinking about this, and I'll share it as I would love to see it come to life faster than I'll be able to get to it.

Take the watch parts and heat them enough to stretch out of shape. Then make the pen. Kind of a "persistence of Memory" pen. :biggrin:

Have fun guys.

I LIKE that... That would be a neat twist on the idea.... The funny thing is I could picture the painting, but didn't know its name.

 

[rjwolfe3]

I wonder if I can get $425 a watch part pen like he does???

 

[penhead]

I must say, that after having read most all of the posts relating to this today, what started it, where it went, etc...that after having read thousands of posts on IAP over the last few years, that these are (in my opinion) two of the most interesting, satisfying posts of any that I have ever read.

Mental note to self: Send Jeff/IAP extra funding next b'day bash or when needed.!!!

I just got off the phone with my intellectual property rights lawyer. He's the one I used for my patent and my trademarks. I showed him the copy of Barry's copyright. According to my lawyer, Barry has rights in copy (that is the origination of the term copyright) to his 2-D image of that watch parts pen and work that is derivative of that 2-D image Note that the copyright notice specifically says that what is copyrighted is 2-dimensional artwork. The pen cannot be copyrighted. The pen cannot be trademarked. The pen may be able to qualify for a design patent BUT patents do not exist from the moment of creation, they must be applied for and issued. If Barry writes instructions, his instructions are protected under copyright. Anyone else can write their own instructions, as long as they are not derivative of Barry's instructions, and not violate copyright. FWIW, this counsel just cost me $400...almost as much as a good plumber would have been worth to Roy!

Lou just made his Birthday Bash contribution :biggrin:

Thanks, Lou.

Interpreting this relating to the IAP, we can't post a photo of Barry's pen, at least the one he has on his site. If I buy one and photograph it, I can post that image.

 

[jpr28056]

I wonder if I can get $425 a watch part pen like he does???

Or $295.00 for a Mickey Mouse watch dial pen? Or for that fact does he have Disney's permission to use Mickey Mouse's likeness? Or Rolex's? I couldn't find anywhere on BG's site who owns those trademarked names.

 

[Gagler]

Take the watch parts and heat them enough to stretch out of shape. Then make the pen. Kind of a "persistence of Memory" pen. :biggrin:

Have fun guys.

I wouldn't put too much heat on it as it might "blue" the metal!

 

[jtdesigns]

Started writing tutorial today. And yes, you can get $425 but that is too cheap. I got $800 for the one I pictured.

 

[Gary Max]

I plan on casting my first one today------I figure it's going to be a Fugley and will end up in the trash---pics to come---hopefully.

 

[GaryMGg]

Started writing tutorial today. And yes, you can get $425 but that is too cheap. I got $800 for the one I pictured.

That's one of the most outstanding pens I've seen.
I personally think it's more attractive than the Caran d'Ache pictured in the link provided in an earlier post.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Just a heads up, I just looked at one of my wifes old watches insides....WOW some of the smallest screw heads I've ever seen both straight and Phillips (make eyeglass screws look like deck screws). Long ago I had a set of watch screwdrivers and I've spent the morning looking, guess it's ebay time and while I'm at it I might as well get a 10X loop that attachés to my glasses.

 

[Gary Max]

Roy we are going to need a Tool "How To Sharpen Screwdriver Tips" tutorial also.

 

[Willee]

Started writing tutorial today. And yes, you can get $425 but that is too cheap. I got $800 for the one I pictured.

And whoever bought it for $800 got a deal.
Just think what Mont Blank would have charged for that pen.

Absolutely one of the finest pens I have seen.

 

[hanau]

Nice pen. I hope to beable to do a pen like that some day.

 

[DozerMite]

I too think I'll make one. I need to find an old watch first.

I will then wait to be contacted by Gary himself or his attorney...


Then direct them to Lou's attorney. :biggrin:

I will be making one though.

 

[razor524]

Can't wait for the tutorial!! These are very interesting and even if I never make one, I'd love to know how it is done. Good work!!

 

[penfancy]

In the Watch magazine on the stand as we speak, A Sierra pen in posted in an add." You send me your watch parts and I'll make a pen for the low price of $79.99. Value $300.USD." I believe it does have the Barry Gross Signature in the resin.

 

[avbill]

Barry Gross copyright states "2-dimensional" A pen with watch parts in it are 3-dimensional.

 

[Chief Hill]

I think after reading all of this I will make one too. Then I will sell it. Good luck proving it let alone suing someone in a different country for copyright issues. Its simple a good lawyer can drag a case in court for years and it costs the person suing too Much money. He does not have enough money to sue for a few pens made and sold So have fun everyone make them, sell them, and have fun. Try to prove it in court. Lol. What pen??

 

[papNal]

After reading all the legal stuff I got all fired up and decided to break in my new HF pressure pot by casting one of them timex blanks! However I had to give up when I couldn't figure how to wind it up or with a newer model get the battery changed;( So guess I'll try a grasshopper instead.John (Hope they ain't protected!)

 

[its_virgil]

So, I'm taking notes watching the TV show "How Its Made" and I now think I will go out and infringe on some of the TMs ... they did show us how its (many things) made. I think I will also infringe on Walmart's marketing idea and sell all of the products I can now make that once belonged to someone else. Wow! I've learned a lot in this thread (and the other one also)I saw another show outlining Walmart's marketing strategy. I will have time now that "The Adventures of Chuckleberry Flinn" is almost finished.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Admittedly, I'm foggy in the TM industry.

It would seem to me publishing the "how to make it" of the pens creation is simply "inviting" people to infringe on the TM. Kind of like entrapment...

 

[seamus7227]

LMAO!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:Go get em tiger! Don, headin' to the other thread now to play catch up!

So, I'm taking notes watching the TV show "How Its Made" and I now think I will go out and infringe on some of the TMs ... they did show us how its (many things) made. I think I will also infringe on Walmart's marketing idea and sell all of the products I can now make that once belonged to someone else. Wow! I've learned a lot in this thread (and the other one also)I saw another show outlining Walmart's marketing strategy. I will have time now that "The Adventures of Chuckleberry Flinn" is almost finished.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Admittedly, I'm foggy in the TM industry.

It would seem to me publishing the "how to make it" of the pens creation is simply "inviting" people to infringe on the TM. Kind of like entrapment...