How to Make Watch Pens
- Thread starter Tomspens
- Start date
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fernhills
Member
Do you mean pocket watch. If so Russ Fairfield has a tutorial on it.
rjwolfe3
Member
Are you referring to a cast watch part pen?
Skye
Member
Thats my guess.
Gary Max
Member
Well heck---that's a easy one.
Buy a bunch of old watchs and take them apart.
Then you stick the parts on a tube---cast over it--- then turn it to match the bushing.
Nothing to it.
I have been working for two weeks on one blank after spending months taking watches apart.
Buy a bunch of old watchs and take them apart.
Then you stick the parts on a tube---cast over it--- then turn it to match the bushing.
Nothing to it.
I have been working for two weeks on one blank after spending months taking watches apart.
Russianwolf
Member
Or you could go the easy route.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Steampunk-Watch...421689595?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0#ht_649wt_1026
It's called Steampunk jewelry, they love watch parts and keys and what not found objects.
jtdesigns
Member
I would write a tutorial but...............I don't want to start any crap.:biggrin:
Anyone can PM me I will give you some insight!!
Anyone can PM me I will give you some insight!!
PenMan1
Member
I'd tell you...but it's trademarked.
glycerine
Member
Have you tried the hammer method?!
johnnycnc
Member
I would write a tutorial but...............I don't want to start any crap.:biggrin:
Anyone can PM me I will give you some insight!!
Awesome pen!!!
sgimbel
Member
I agree. Awesome pen!
jttheclockman
Member
I agree, that is an awesome pen. I have to try this for sure. Thanks for showing.
arioux
Member
aweiss44
Member
technically i think this post violates trademark law.:bulgy-eyes:
:bulgy-eyes:
Fred
Member
Be really quite on this as I am sure that the government is keeping an eye out for this type of thing! So, don't be giving them any more ideas ...
ROOKIETURNER
Member
This very subject caused a huge upset months back. Ya better not mention selling the thing or you'll be sorry! Just a friendly piece of advice.
Can someone send me a PM and fill me in on this? I'd like to know the details of why it's such a taboo subject.
TBCbushings
Member
Dont let you know who find out......
I had an idea, but as I thought of it, I trademarked it, so I can't share it anymore.
I can tell you make a ... wait... nope, trademarked that too.
Sorry.
On a serious note, watch pens are one of my favorite creations to see made. I'd really like to cast a few one of these days.
Not for sale of course, because those are.. well, you know.
I can tell you make a ... wait... nope, trademarked that too.
Sorry.
On a serious note, watch pens are one of my favorite creations to see made. I'd really like to cast a few one of these days.
Not for sale of course, because those are.. well, you know.
Rifleman1776
Member
Trademarked?
Not sure how that affects creative endeavors.
Seems anyone with casting equipment and skills could make something similar. After all other kinds of 'stuff' have been cast and shown here.
glycerine
Member
Talk to Jeff Tate! He started it!! :biggrin: I'll send a PM...
Russianwolf
Member
This is what started it
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=58871&highlight=time+series&page=4
and this is what it turned into
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=59012&highlight=complexity+time&page=3
But also spawned this
http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=59017&highlight=complexity+time
Long story short, A person thinks he has a copy right on all watch part cast in resin pens (among others). I personally think he'd have a very hard time defending it as steampunk jewelry has been around a lot longer than his design .
GaryMGg
Member
glycerine
Member
No, silly! ...That was ME.
Mark
Member
Admittedly, I'm foggy in the TM industry.
It would seem to me publishing the "how to make it" of the pens creation is simply "inviting" people to infringe on the TM. Kind of like entrapment...
It would seem to me publishing the "how to make it" of the pens creation is simply "inviting" people to infringe on the TM. Kind of like entrapment...
TBCbushings
Member
I thought Tipper's husband did that???
Steve Busey
Member
mick
Member
He may not have invented it but I'll bet he thinks he has a copy right on it! :biggrin:
jtdesigns
Member
I am waiting to here from someone but I will probably start writing a tutorial. Stay tuned.
mick
Member
Good I've got the watches apart, tubes painted and CA glue in hand.....after that I'm still scratching my head(not with the same hand holding the CA)
jtdesigns
Member
Now you know how I feel when I look at Jeff Powell's scrolling of pen tubes. Wish he would do a tutorial.....hint..hint:biggrin:
Skye
Member
Good I've got the watches apart, tubes painted and CA glue in hand.....after that I'm still scratching my head(not with the same hand holding the CA)
Should be the same as making snakeskin blanks. Just suspend the tubes horizontally with the parts stuck on them, get rid of the bubbles, pour, get rid of bubbles, pressurize, wait. I would think that's the gist of it.
darrin1200
Member
I do not want to get stomped on, but I am fascinated by this pen style. Although I have not yet learned to make my own castings, the watch pen is the style that I am aspiring to. Since I first saw it, one of my goals was to make my own. That being said, I make and sell pens.
I do not wish to infringe on Copyright, but I do wish to make pens in this style in the future.
In my research into these pens, I found a company that produced a limited edition watch pen a year before Mr. Gross.
Caran d'Ache of Switzerland launches the Limited Edition
"Haute Horlogerie 1010" in October 2007
Here is a link to any article about the launch:
http://home.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-17/pi-2311946/ti-384306/s-0/
Does this mean he is infinging on copyright. (I don't believe so)
I would never lay claim to coming up with the idea of putting watch parts in a pen, but I would lay claim to my own efforts in creating the one that I am selling. The same goes for the Celtic Knot pens I create, and the Herringbone 360's.
What is copywritten, the pieces that are cast, the name watchpen, the concept of using watch parts or is it the title "Eco-Friendly Pens"
If I took all the parts from an old tiny music box (gears, pins, springs etc) and cast them in resin, it would look the similar.
I do believe that if I was to cast one of these pens and sell it as an "Eco-Friendly Pen" or as a Barry Gross pen then I would be breaking through extremely thin ice.
A good analogy might be found in a painting.
If I painted an oil painting of a young italian girl with long dark hair wearing a black dress and smiling with her lips closed I could easily sell this as my own.
However if I made a copy of the Mona Lisa and sold it as a Divinci, I would be immediately thrown in jail.
This has just been my 2 cents. I am still looking forward to the day when I have the skill to create a work of art like this.
I do not wish to infringe on Copyright, but I do wish to make pens in this style in the future.
In my research into these pens, I found a company that produced a limited edition watch pen a year before Mr. Gross.
Caran d'Ache of Switzerland launches the Limited Edition
"Haute Horlogerie 1010" in October 2007
Here is a link to any article about the launch:
http://home.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-17/pi-2311946/ti-384306/s-0/
Does this mean he is infinging on copyright. (I don't believe so)
I would never lay claim to coming up with the idea of putting watch parts in a pen, but I would lay claim to my own efforts in creating the one that I am selling. The same goes for the Celtic Knot pens I create, and the Herringbone 360's.
What is copywritten, the pieces that are cast, the name watchpen, the concept of using watch parts or is it the title "Eco-Friendly Pens"
If I took all the parts from an old tiny music box (gears, pins, springs etc) and cast them in resin, it would look the similar.
I do believe that if I was to cast one of these pens and sell it as an "Eco-Friendly Pen" or as a Barry Gross pen then I would be breaking through extremely thin ice.
A good analogy might be found in a painting.
If I painted an oil painting of a young italian girl with long dark hair wearing a black dress and smiling with her lips closed I could easily sell this as my own.
However if I made a copy of the Mona Lisa and sold it as a Divinci, I would be immediately thrown in jail.
This has just been my 2 cents. I am still looking forward to the day when I have the skill to create a work of art like this.
Barry Gross was granted a copyright on this pen and several others.
After a little research on my own and a short conversation with my attorney, I'll tell you that this is a VERY thorny issue. It's probably legal to tell how to make the pen, just not to make one, even for private use (although one could probably "get away with it" as they say in the legal literature). Wacky, I know...
Here's an interesting article I was pointed to by another copyright professional which discusses how "substantially similar" something must be to be considered infringing. Here's a little snip from the article:
"In fine art cases, the courts usually adopt what is known as the "ordinary observer or audience test." Under this test, a judge or jury would ask the question whether the copyist took from the original artist something which would be identified as similar by the audience for whom the work was created--art buying public, not the experts. Under this test, one does not present expert witnesses and testimony providing detailed analysis, or dissection of the artwork to determine whether a work is substantially similar. Instead, what is used is an immediate visceral reaction to the two works when looking at them. The reaction of the public in these matters is their spontaneous and immediate reaction. This test is not universally followed by courts and has not been without its critics."
I've shown a photo of the Barry Gross pen and the Jeff Tate pen to multiple people. Their reaction is that they are similar works. Although it would take a lawsuit to sort this out, it might be reasonable to believe that Barry Gross has a reasonable claim.
It doesn't take a lot of digging to find very similar work that predates the Gross copyright, so his could be challenged as derivative work also. His copyright is also for "2-dimensional" artwork, so I'm not sure how that jives with the fact that a pen is a 3-dimensional object. Those are expensive questions for the legal profession.
I am not arguing for or against copyright of pen designs. This is one of the biggest issues in the art world and there have been and always will be plenty of people gnashing teeth over it. What I am simply saying is that based on a brief professional analysis and my own research, there does seem to be some substance to the whole issue surrounding Jeff's pen.
What are we going to do about it? Probably nothing, until and unless the copyright holder notifies us as described in our Copyright Policy.
And that is how I shot my afternoon
After a little research on my own and a short conversation with my attorney, I'll tell you that this is a VERY thorny issue. It's probably legal to tell how to make the pen, just not to make one, even for private use (although one could probably "get away with it" as they say in the legal literature). Wacky, I know...
Here's an interesting article I was pointed to by another copyright professional which discusses how "substantially similar" something must be to be considered infringing. Here's a little snip from the article:
"In fine art cases, the courts usually adopt what is known as the "ordinary observer or audience test." Under this test, a judge or jury would ask the question whether the copyist took from the original artist something which would be identified as similar by the audience for whom the work was created--art buying public, not the experts. Under this test, one does not present expert witnesses and testimony providing detailed analysis, or dissection of the artwork to determine whether a work is substantially similar. Instead, what is used is an immediate visceral reaction to the two works when looking at them. The reaction of the public in these matters is their spontaneous and immediate reaction. This test is not universally followed by courts and has not been without its critics."
I've shown a photo of the Barry Gross pen and the Jeff Tate pen to multiple people. Their reaction is that they are similar works. Although it would take a lawsuit to sort this out, it might be reasonable to believe that Barry Gross has a reasonable claim.
It doesn't take a lot of digging to find very similar work that predates the Gross copyright, so his could be challenged as derivative work also. His copyright is also for "2-dimensional" artwork, so I'm not sure how that jives with the fact that a pen is a 3-dimensional object. Those are expensive questions for the legal profession.
I am not arguing for or against copyright of pen designs. This is one of the biggest issues in the art world and there have been and always will be plenty of people gnashing teeth over it. What I am simply saying is that based on a brief professional analysis and my own research, there does seem to be some substance to the whole issue surrounding Jeff's pen.
What are we going to do about it? Probably nothing, until and unless the copyright holder notifies us as described in our Copyright Policy.
And that is how I shot my afternoon
Mark
Member
Thanks for the post Jeff. That was very informative.
I guess a person could make a living, just enforcing several copyright's like that.
It sounds like even a label (picturing watch parts) would be considered infringement.
I guess a person could make a living, just enforcing several copyright's like that.
It sounds like even a label (picturing watch parts) would be considered infringement.
rjwolfe3
Member
Does that mean that if he notified you then you would have to remove any photos of pens that he holds copyrights to? That would include watch part, cigar label, beer cap, and fly fishing pens. Sounds crazy to me.
glycerine
Member
Not if Barry himself posted the photos:
(from the TOS)
When you post messages and upload photos, you grant Penturners.org the perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, world-wide, royalty free license to publish, modify and use such content solely for the purpose of displaying such content.
darrin1200
Member
Thanks for the informative response Jeff. This seems to be a very sticky subject.
I am not going to wrack my brain over this until I actually create one. That could be some time.
I am not going to wrack my brain over this until I actually create one. That could be some time.
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rjwolfe3
Member
Correct, I meant everyone else, lol. For instance all of the cigar label pens I have been seeing recently as well as the fly fishing lure ones. Truthfully, I think its a crappy thing but got to respect the law I guess.