Getting started kitless

[MartinPens]

They must survive "The Pit of Despair" and have one year of life sucked out of them by "The Machine." (reference to 'The Princess Bride). Ok, maybe that's a bit much. : )

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[Joe S.]

SCORE!!! My grandpa had this set of tap/dies he never uses anymore. Now all I need is the acrylic rod and a way to hold the dies on the lathe.

 

[Dalecamino]

SCORE!!! My grandpa had this set of tap/dies he never uses anymore. Now all I need is the acrylic rod and a way to hold the dies on the lathe.

Right on Joe! Just need a die holder and tap guide. I would bet one of our members has them and NOT using them.:wink:

 

[Joe S.]

SCORE!!! My grandpa had this set of tap/dies he never uses anymore. Now all I need is the acrylic rod and a way to hold the dies on the lathe.

Right on Joe! Just need a die holder and tap guide. I would bet one of our members has them and NOT using them.:wink:

Tap guide...? Won't a drill chuck work?

 

[Dalecamino]

SCORE!!! My grandpa had this set of tap/dies he never uses anymore. Now all I need is the acrylic rod and a way to hold the dies on the lathe.

Right on Joe! Just need a die holder and tap guide. I would bet one of our members has them and NOT using them.:wink:

Tap guide...? Won't a drill chuck work?

Yes, it will work. Although I've never tried tapping that way myself. I've read that others have done it this way. But, for the money I chose the guide. It was worth it to me.

 

[azamiryou]

Tap guide...? Won't a drill chuck work?

The tap has to advance into the work as it cuts, following the threads. You can do this with a drill chuck, leaving the tailstock loose and applying some pressure as you turn the tap, so the tailstock moves in. Then when you back up the die (which you need to do a lot to break the chips), you have to get the tailstock to slide back, too. You can't really use the tailstock wheel... the tap has to advance/retreat at its own rate.

A tap guide is spring-loaded so the tap can advance/retreat at its own rate. Also, they are pretty cheap. You're looking for something along these lines: Tap Guide - LittleMachineShop.com You can get one to fit a taper or with a straight shank for use with a chuck.

 

[BRobbins629]

I use a drill chuck for taps with the tail stock loose all the time. Works for me.

A good project that goes hand in hand with kitless is to make a die holder.

 

[Robert111]

Gentlemen! Gentlemen!

Why are you sitting there talking about this? It's not that difficult.

Tortoise (new IAP member) retired from teaching English this past June. She's always liked pens. She decided she wanted to make them herself and last August 30 she took delivery of a Jet mini.

She learned to operate it and use the carbide pen making tool. Now she has made three tubeless fountain pens, and she is getting pretty good. She is going to make to wonderful pens.

Meanwhile, you'll still be talking about it.

 

[Joe S.]

Why are you sitting there talking about this? It's not that difficult.

Tortoise (new IAP member) retired from teaching English this past June. She's always liked pens. She decided she wanted to make them herself and last August 30 she took delivery of a Jet mini.

She learned to operate it and use the carbide pen making tool. Now she has made three tubeless fountain pens, and she is getting pretty good. She is going to make to wonderful pens.

Meanwhile, you'll still be talking about it.

1: I don't have everything I need yet, and need help getting the right stuff.

2: I don't have the slightest idea on how to use the tools I'm getting.
(but I'll figure it out soon enough.)

3: I'm having fun with other turning and other pen projects!

 

[Joe S.]

No acrylic rod yet, but I had a leftover bit of corian to try a die on. Worked nice but I think the threads would look a little better with a bit of mineral oil on them. Next step is using a tap to make something to screw onto it.
PS: hard maple didn't work too well... I might try again when I have more experience.

 

[Dalecamino]

Some of us use cooking oil when cutting threads. I use Pam. Good start.:wink:

 

[dogcatcher]

I already had both SAE and metric tap and die sets in my shop because of other things I work on. I took the "guts" of what I wanted to use and then played with it until it all fit together to make a pen.

I use the same method when I am trying to create a tool for my other businesses to save time, I fly "solo" using trial and error. If and when it comes together it is a great feeling. Some times an idea just won't float a boat, then I made scrap, but during the process I will learn what works and what doesn't. With trial and error, a tradesman and artist will improve their skills. If they have complete guidance you may never really figure out how it all works. Penmaking would almost be like being a factory worker. Dive in head first and find the answer, or find out there is no answer.

 

[Joe S.]

Played around again a little earlier, tapping is pretty easy for me, but getting the right size tennon for a die is still a challenge. The mineral oil made the first piece look better.

 

[Texatdurango]

Played around again a little earlier, tapping is pretty easy for me, but getting the right size tennon for a die is still a challenge. The mineral oil made the first piece look better.

Take a few moments and scroll back through past threads in the advanced pen making forum. There are lots of threads about sizing tenons for dies and hole sizes for taps. Probably every size used on pens has been mentioned over the past few years. That forum is a good source of information.

 

[Tortoise]

Played around again a little earlier, tapping is pretty easy for me, but getting the right size tennon for a die is still a challenge. The mineral oil made the first piece look better.

Joe, here's a formula another member gave me:

Tenon size for threading with the die is always about .2mm subtracted from the nominal die size.

Example -- For a 14 x 1 die, the tenon should be 13.8

 

[glycerine]

SCORE!!! My grandpa had this set of tap/dies he never uses anymore. Now all I need is the acrylic rod and a way to hold the dies on the lathe.

I made my own holder by cannibalizing a cheap "handheld" die holer. I cut off the wings, drill an appropriate sixed hole into a piece of wood. Drill a smaller hole all the way through that piece of wood so that it could slide back and forth and spin on a piece of steel rod (which is held in place with a jacobs chuck in the tail stock).
The holder can be seen here: http://www.penturners.org/forum/f56/im-tired-justin-88552/

 

[Joe S.]

Thanks! So far I've been destroying acrylic, but learning all the way!

 

[MartinPens]

The acrylic rod is a catch 22. It's good and cheap to learn on, but it's so easy to crack when putting that last little snug turn on the die. I'm learning the limits. I've used the ebonite twice. Great stuff to work with. I also have black delrin, but don't plan to use it for anything but mandrels. I'm going to have to spend a couple more bucks on a couple specific metric drill bits. I'm having fun and I hope to be posting my first custom kitless soon.

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[Joe S.]

The acrylic rod is a catch 22. It's good and cheap to learn on, but it's so easy to crack when putting that last little snug turn on the die. I'm learning the limits. I've used the ebonite twice. Great stuff to work with. I also have black delrin, but don't plan to use it for anything but mandrels. I'm going to have to spend a couple more bucks on a couple specific metric drill bits. I'm having fun and I hope to be posting my first custom kitless soon.

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That's like saying "please pre-pay in advance." :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I hope to make somthing writable soon, I might break down and use an atrax section for the first one. Just gotta keep trying!

 

[Jim Burr]

Got all my taps and dies in the mail yesterday:biggrin:!! But I'm working way out of town until Sunday:mad-tongue:. I have a Snap-on (bluepoint) Tap and Die set, but it's all standard...everyone is using metric...going to have a lash with some standard sizes except the nib/section...buying those for now! Any legit reason fractional sizes won't work?

 

[Andrew_K99]

Got all my taps and dies in the mail yesterday:biggrin:!! But I'm working way out of town until Sunday:mad-tongue:. I have a Snap-on (bluepoint) Tap and Die set, but it's all standard...everyone is using metric...going to have a lash with some standard sizes except the nib/section...buying those for now! Any legit reason fractional sizes won't work?

The main reason 'standard' sets won't work is they are too coarse for some of the threading.

For metric, 0.75mm pitch (distance from thread to thread) is commonly used; this works out to ±34 TPI (teeth per inch, the way standard threads are measured).

For the cap/body connection 1/2" (12.7mm) would be the closest match to the commonly used 12mm. 1/2" fine threads are 20 TPI or 42% coarser than what is commonly used. This isn't saying that won't work, but it may
cause issues.

AK

 

[Jim Burr]

Got all my taps and dies in the mail yesterday:biggrin:!! But I'm working way out of town until Sunday:mad-tongue:. I have a Snap-on (bluepoint) Tap and Die set, but it's all standard...everyone is using metric...going to have a lash with some standard sizes except the nib/section...buying those for now! Any legit reason fractional sizes won't work?

The main reason 'standard' sets won't work is they are too coarse for some of the threading.

For metric, 0.75mm pitch (distance from thread to thread) is commonly used; this works out to ±34 TPI (teeth per inch, the way standard threads are measured).

For the cap/body connection 1/2" (12.7mm) would be the closest match to the commonly used 12mm. 1/2" fine threads are 20 TPI or 42% coarser than what is commonly used. This isn't saying that won't work, but it may
cause issues.

AK

Thanks Andrew...I was wondering why always metric, that sums it up. My order from Victor is in and I ordered my sections and nibs today. Monday I start making a kitless...don't get home until then. Have tons of acrylic and PR rods.
To change it up a bit...other than ebony, what woods are good for kitless...rosewood family I'd guess. Does stabilized wood matter?

 

[Joe S.]

Got all my taps and dies in the mail yesterday:biggrin:!! But I'm working way out of town until Sunday:mad-tongue:. I have a Snap-on (bluepoint) Tap and Die set, but it's all standard...everyone is using metric...going to have a lash with some standard sizes except the nib/section...buying those for now! Any legit reason fractional sizes won't work?

The main reason 'standard' sets won't work is they are too coarse for some of the threading.

For metric, 0.75mm pitch (distance from thread to thread) is commonly used; this works out to ±34 TPI (teeth per inch, the way standard threads are measured).

For the cap/body connection 1/2" (12.7mm) would be the closest match to the commonly used 12mm. 1/2" fine threads are 20 TPI or 42% coarser than what is commonly used. This isn't saying that won't work, but it may
cause issues.

AK

THANK YOU!!! This might help some of the issues I'm having!

 

[BSea]

Got all my taps and dies in the mail yesterday:biggrin:!! But I'm working way out of town until Sunday:mad-tongue:. I have a Snap-on (bluepoint) Tap and Die set, but it's all standard...everyone is using metric...going to have a lash with some standard sizes except the nib/section...buying those for now! Any legit reason fractional sizes won't work?

You can get SAE tap & dies with finer threads. Look at Victor machinery. They have 1/2" taps with as many as 80 TPI. Not that I would recommend that. Granted, these aren't going to be found in a "SET", but you have the same problem with a metric set. Most of the threads are too coarse.

It's much better to buy the individual taps & dies rather than to buy a set. I bought a metric set at HF just to get started. I use 1 tap out of the entire set. All the rest of my taps & dies I bought individually.

 

[Gilrock]

Actually I've used my set that has 6-32, 10-32, and 1/4-20 taps all the time for my kitless pen making. Those are the sizes I use for all the set screws in the tap and die holders I've made.

 

[rogerwaskow]

Hi

Could one get all the sizes in metric as we here in nAussie don't use the inch system.

Many thanks

 

[mredburn]

m12 x.75
m14 x1
m10 x.75
m9 x.75
m8 x.75
m7 x.75
These in single threads will allow you to build pens with the exception of the feed assembly taps which are dedicated sizes to the manufacturer of the feed. Miester Nib or Jowo and Bock are different thread pitches and so different taps. A m10 x 1 will work with some of the kit feed assemblies front sections.