Gearing up----Econo-watch Blanks

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jtdesigns

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Please make no mistake I completely understand why the photo was taken down and I have nothing but great respect for our administrators as they were in fact trying to protect this site from legal action (something that was my doing).
 
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AlanZ

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Bitshird,

It is my understanding that one cannot copyright a concept or an idea... that's what patents are for.
 

bruce119

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How fun I just discovered this thread. Been gone over the weekend at a show. Now as most of you know I play with resin. I am self taught trial and error in the beginning then the Internet. Now in my early days of casting I was experimenting with all kinds of stuff my mind works a little different then most. I thought I had all kinds of original ideas that no one could have possibly had. Such as Loofah, weeds, feathers, and much more. Only to discover this site as I advanced to find out that this has all been done before in one one way or another. I also had started collecting watches and clocks for a project that I never finished long before I ever saw a photo.

Now on another note ideas were do they come from. Something you see what ever it may be something on the side of the road a picture of an ear ring done in steampunk (watch parts) art. What ever it may be it is called INSPIRATION. Now a days it is almost impossible to have a very first original and if you think you do where did the INSPIRATION come from most likely something you saw.

Anyway this all fun and if you don't want your work copied don't show, tell or sell it. Most of us respect each other and there's enough space and ideas to go around. And besides things like the watch parts are not easy, not every one can do it. Most have trouble just with casting let alone all the variables that come to play with something with multiple complications.

That's it have fun.
 

bitshird

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Bitshird,

It is my understanding that one cannot copyright a concept or an idea... that's what patents are for.

Exactly!!!!! but there are provisional patents that can do so. Not sure about the wording on the copyright laws, they are pretty vague, but I did have to argue a cease and desist order and was able to win. However I got a PM from Barry gross, and he seemed reasonably certain that he could enforce this issue, and I understand and honor Jeff Browns position as well. I'm certain with the right legal council, while he may not prevail, he could force a large cash outlay to defend his position. I was fortunate in that the Attorney I was against didn't have his facts straight and neither did hid his client who makes a similar too. but it took 5 -8 to 10 hour days back searching the concept and actual first patent to prove that technically we were both infringing slightly on a previously issued patent , and the owner of that patent isn't interested in perusing the matter further Now the tool we will be unveiling at the Turning Southern Style symposium may get a bit sticky but fortunately I made a crude prototype for Gary a while back which is all based on the same principal and concept of having an interchangeable carbide insert on a square bar,, Oddly enough this was what my legal opponent tried to claim as his proprietary design "a square bar" this should give a reasonable insight to the intelligence of some Lawyers that try and practice out of their certified field.
I' thinking GO Gary Go tic toc tic toc time is ticking away....
 

jttheclockman

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I must say this is one concept I would love to see hit the big time players and see marketed. It really would be a hoot.:)
 

bruce119

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I must say this is one concept I would love to see hit the big time players and see marketed. It really would be a hoot.:)

For it to be done rite with authentic parts is a TON of work and would cost BIG $$$.

If it was to be mass produced there's no way they could do it it with real parts. It would have to be reproduced parts like paper or plastic gears so they could be easily bent and wrapped.

To make one is a LOT of work and takes a LOT of time that is why you don't see them popping up all over the place. The originator shouldn't be too concerned there's only a handful that would be able to pull it off.

Did I say it is a LOT of work and takes a tremendous amount of TIME as I am sure JT... would attest too.

:)
 

jttheclockman

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I must say this is one concept I would love to see hit the big time players and see marketed. It really would be a hoot.:)

For it to be done rite with authentic parts is a TON of work and would cost BIG $$$.

If it was to be mass produced there's no way they could do it it with real parts. It would have to be reproduced parts like paper or plastic gears so they could be easily bent and wrapped.

To make one is a LOT of work and takes a LOT of time that is why you don't see them popping up all over the place. The originator shouldn't be too concerned there's only a handful that would be able to pull it off.

Did I say it is a LOT of work and takes a tremendous amount of TIME as I am sure JT... would attest too.

:)

I am gathering parts as we speak and I will attempt my rendition soon hopefully. I have a couple ideas I would like to try.

As far as being copied by the big guys, I would not put it past them. If they were able to conquer the circuit board pen and you have to admit that is a nice blank, then this is not out of the possibilities.
 

Russianwolf

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As far as being copied by the big guys, I would not put it past them. If they were able to conquer the circuit board pen and you have to admit that is a nice blank, then this is not out of the possibilities.

With paying people in Asia pennies on the dollar for labor, time isn't a problem for them at all. Remember they have entire towns whose entire economy is based on pulling circuit boards apart to salvage the precious metals and other usable components from them. If that's not time consuming I don't know what is.
 

bitshird

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As far as being copied by the big guys, I would not put it past them. If they were able to conquer the circuit board pen and you have to admit that is a nice blank, then this is not out of the possibilities.

With paying people in Asia pennies on the dollar for labor, time isn't a problem for them at all. Remember they have entire towns whose entire economy is based on pulling circuit boards apart to salvage the precious metals and other usable components from them. If that's not time consuming I don't know what is.

Ever listen to the Monty Python song I like Chinese?? it's on Youtube, but out of respect I won't post a link here
 

jttheclockman

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As far as being copied by the big guys, I would not put it past them. If they were able to conquer the circuit board pen and you have to admit that is a nice blank, then this is not out of the possibilities.

With paying people in Asia pennies on the dollar for labor, time isn't a problem for them at all. Remember they have entire towns whose entire economy is based on pulling circuit boards apart to salvage the precious metals and other usable components from them. If that's not time consuming I don't know what is.




:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

It will happen if there is a demand for these you can bet on it.
 

its_virgil

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The Advetures of Chuckleberry Flinn

I read a novel the other day. After reading it I thought, "I can do that." So here is a summary of the planned work.
The Adventures of Chuckleberry Flinn was a comical novel about a boy and a run away slave who travel down the Mississippi and encounter many problems they need to overcome. The first problem is getting away from Chuck's drunk bum of a dad who spends all his money on alcohol. You see Chuck has quite a bit of money, well 6000 dollars to be exact. Chuck gives this money to a man named judge Cratcher ( he is the judge of the town ). After Chuck's dad finds out about this he goes nuts and tries to get it from the judge. However unsuccessful, Chuck's father, pap, kidnaps Chuck from his temporary guardian, and hides out in a cabin, with Chuck, across the river from the own. Chuck's pap beats him so Chuck fakes his own death to get away from pap.
After successfully running away, he goes to Jackson island where he meets up with Tim. During there short stay on the island there is a storm which causes the Mississippi to flood. When the storm passes, Chuck and Tim find a house and a raft floating down the river. They take what the can from the house and the raft and go on a long adventure.
Well the town folk are not to happy about Tim running away so they go after him. But luckily Tim and Chuck get away on the raft they found. After there escape they start down the river with a plan to leave the raft at the mouth of the Ohio river and travel upstream to the free states. One night Chuck and Tim encounter some thick fog and miss the mouth of the Ohio river completely. The next night the raft is hit by a steamboat and Chuck and Tim separate.
Eventually Chuck ends up in the home of the Dangerfords where there is a Romeo and Juliet type of scene.The Dangerfords and the Leapherdsons are quarreling and a son of one family loves a daughter of the other, so when the 2 families find out there is a shootout and all the Grangerfords are killed, but eventually Tim shows up and they go down the river some more. A few days later they encounter some con men being chased by armed bandits, so Chuck and Tim rescue them and continue down the river with these 2 rapscallions. The 2 men pretend to be an English Duke and the long lost heir to the French throne. Well when traveling into down into one town they hear about the story of a man who has recently died and left everything to his 2 brothers, who should be arriving from England any day. So the Duke and the King enter the town claiming to be the 2 brothers. The guy's daughters who died welcomes them and they start selling everything they can. A few town people start to become skeptical so Chuck figures out a plant to get them caught, unfortunately the real brother shows up and the Duck and King get away with Chuck and Tim.
After a few more small scams the Duke and King sell Tim to a local farmer claiming him to have a big reward. Chuck finds out where Tim is being held and goes to free him. At the house where Tim is held a woman greets Chuck excitedly claiming Chuck to be his best friend Ron, who is coming to visit.. So Chuck travels up the road to find Ron before he can get to the house and he tells Ron his plan to break Tim free. But Ron has a different idea and Chuck hates this plan but does decide to go along with it. After a while of preparation Ron and Chuck break Tim free only to get chased down and have a bullet get lodged in Rons leg. So after Ron is nursed back to health and we find Tim back in chains, Ron explains that Tim was free all along, that his owner freed him upon her death. Glad to hear this Tim sets to go up river to free the rest of his family, but before he does that he tells Chuck not to worry about his father anymore because in thehouse that was floating down the river Tim found a dead man and it turned out to be Chuck's father, so being very relieved Chuck sets off for the west.


What do you all think? Should I continue? I don't think Mark Twain's estates will mind. This is America, right?. Novels have been written before. They don't have a lock on that idea. I will change a few things, as you can see from the summary, so It will not be exactly like the copyrighted version. Now off to the word processor to start.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 

Willee

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What do you all think? Should I continue? I don't think Mark Twain's estates will mind. This is America, right?. Novels have been written before. They don't have a lock on that idea. I will change a few things, as you can see from the summary, so It will not be exactly like the copyrighted version. Now off to the word processor to start.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


Virgil, I was just about to give you credit for being a bit smarter than that.

Dont quit your day job and forget about law school.
 

its_virgil

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I'm not quitting my day job. I need no credit on anything from anyone. I don't care if it sells or not. I asked no one to sell any farms to help finance this project. I've made no comments on what others in this thread think. I have not criticized any other opinions on the topic of this thread. It is a sad day when someone disagrees (without being disagreeable) with others on this forum and they soon become the target of negative comments. Sad days here are becoming too frequent. I will not debate the controversy. I think my only post on the topic is quite plain....too bad that so many just don't get it.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

johnnycnc

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>el snippo>
I think my only post on the topic is quite plain....too bad that so many just don't get it.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


I get it, Don.
And it's a pretty darn funny story too!:)
I got lost after mention of 6000 dollars, but I see the parody and ironical
twist underlying.
Write on!!

Johnny
♣
 

bitshird

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Heck Don, compared to today's literature your novel should be ranked with The Iliad and the Odyssey, but I too get your point, and agree! I wish Mr Tate would explain his position a bit better, I've heard one side from a reliable source that was turning pens with you at SWAT.
 

BigguyZ

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Isn't Mark Twain's work all public domain now? I forget- how long is copywrite good for? I know he's been gone for almost 100 years, as they mentioned that they can finally print his autobiography soon....

Regardless, I think that's a silly argument. First off, there's a huge difference between a written work and functional art. I would say the better analogy would be sunflowers. Can Van Goh's estate say no one can paint sunflowers? No, they can't. If it's exact in it's composition, that's one thing, but if the subject is the same, that's another.

I should probably not jump into this argument, but faulty logic bugs the heck out of me.
 

MesquiteMan

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Please make no mistake I completely understand why the photo was taken down and I have nothing but great respect for our administrators as they were in fact trying to protect this site from legal action (something that was my doing).

The pic was NOT taken down to protect the site from legal action. There were no threats of legal action made against IAP from anyone.
 

its_virgil

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I don't know and that isn't the point. Had I chosen van whoever and sunflowers would my point have been better made? I don't think so. I was trying to make a point and I guess I should just come out and make it. I think Barry Gross does have the rights to his eco friendly pens including watch parts and cigar labels and beer caps. I think it is wrong for others to make and sell them witout Barry's permission. And, I think it is unfair how Barry is being dumped upon here and as Curtis said....Why is Barry made out to be the villian in regards to the watch parts pen? I just don't understand sometimes. Thanks for listening and remember my thoughts only and I know I have the right to have them without all of the negative comments. Thanks again.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Isn't Mark Twain's work all public domain now? I forget- how long is copywrite good for? I know he's been gone for almost 100 years, as they mentioned that they can finally print his autobiography soon....


I should probably not jump into this argument, but faulty logic bugs the heck out of me.
 

jttheclockman

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I don't know and that isn't the point. Had I chosen van whoever and sunflowers would my point have been better made? I don't think so. I was trying to make a point and I guess I should just come out and make it. I think Barry Gross does have the rights to his eco friendly pens including watch parts and cigar labels and beer caps. I think it is wrong for others to make and sell them witout Barry's permission. And, I think it is unfair how Barry is being dumped upon here and as Curtis said....Why is Barry made out to be the villian in regards to the watch parts pen? I just don't understand sometimes. Thanks for listening and remember my thoughts only and I know I have the right to have them without all of the negative comments. Thanks again.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Isn't Mark Twain's work all public domain now? I forget- how long is copywrite good for? I know he's been gone for almost 100 years, as they mentioned that they can finally print his autobiography soon....


I should probably not jump into this argument, but faulty logic bugs the heck out of me.



Don

You are well respected here as well as other sites so your opinion does carry weight weather you want to admit it or not. I think this is what you should have done in the beginning and not this beat around the bush thing. I couldn't believe you did that. :) I have posted my opinion in the other thread going on about this thing. I disagree with you and my points are made there.

I think what Barry has a better chance of claiming as copyrighted is the wording ECO-FRIENDLY pens. I explained in the other post that the concept of casting items in resin and making a pen blank has been around for many years. To that is all this is another item cast in resin. Just like the many things show here before and the many thing show in the future, things cast in resin. I won't go into the whole speech again here but you can read what I said in the other thread.
 
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Perhaps I'm missing something here, but why is there contention about this? Barry has a copyright. That affords him protection. If someone else knows of this process or form being done before, then all they have to do is prove it to the USPTO. If there is contention over the legitimacy, then it goes to court. IAP isn't that court. This isn't a matter of personal opinion, it's a matter of law.

Otherwise, he should be protected just like any of us would want to be.

Why would anyone want to steal from one of our own? Especially when Barry has allowed some to make these as long as they aren't for personal profit? He's one of us. Anyone trying to infringe is no better than some foreign company trying to hawk pirated software or movies.

.
 

Gary Max

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No one owns Steampunk Art-----that's plain and simple..
You can find it for sale everywhere, for one person to say they have it copyrighted
is nothing more than a joke.
In a court room this would last about 2 minutes.
 

BigguyZ

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Don,

I have nothing personal against you, as you have done a lot for the forum and the community in general. I've read lots of your articles and I hope to be as good as you are. The same goes for Barry- I don't besmirch the guy for wanting to protect his idea.

I just think the logic used in the argument was faulty. I think it's been shown in various threads over and over again that you can copywrite the image of the pens Barry does, but the general idea of it is not something you can copywrite.



I don't know and that isn't the point. Had I chosen van whoever and sunflowers would my point have been better made? I don't think so. I was trying to make a point and I guess I should just come out and make it. I think Barry Gross does have the rights to his eco friendly pens including watch parts and cigar labels and beer caps. I think it is wrong for others to make and sell them witout Barry's permission. And, I think it is unfair how Barry is being dumped upon here and as Curtis said....Why is Barry made out to be the villian in regards to the watch parts pen? I just don't understand sometimes. Thanks for listening and remember my thoughts only and I know I have the right to have them without all of the negative comments. Thanks again.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Isn't Mark Twain's work all public domain now? I forget- how long is copywrite good for? I know he's been gone for almost 100 years, as they mentioned that they can finally print his autobiography soon....


I should probably not jump into this argument, but faulty logic bugs the heck out of me.
 

Russianwolf

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Perhaps I'm missing something here, but why is there contention about this? Barry has a copyright. That affords him protection. If someone else knows of this process or form being done before, then all they have to do is prove it to the USPTO. If there is contention over the legitimacy, then it goes to court. IAP isn't that court. This isn't a matter of personal opinion, it's a matter of law.

Otherwise, he should be protected just like any of us would want to be.

Why would anyone want to steal from one of our own? Especially when Barry has allowed some to make these as long as they aren't for personal profit? He's one of us. Anyone trying to infringe is no better than some foreign company trying to hawk pirated software or movies.

.

Protection of what? The copyright says a 2-D item. So just the picture of the pens? That's been a lot of the question.

And yes, he is a member. With 4 posts. 3 hawking his books and dvds, and one addressing his conflict with JTdesign.
 
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No one owns Steampunk Art-----that's plain and simple..
You can find it for sale everywhere, for one person to say they have it copyrighted
is nothing more than a joke.
In a court room this would last about 2 minutes.


I've asked our company attorney - who does handle copyright and patent law, he was also a judge - and this was his determination:

"I'd be willing to bet that if you made a steampunk art pen, and termed it as such, then you'd be safe. Steampunk is much more than watch parts and brass. Throw in some non-watch parts.
Barry's copyright seems to hinge on the use of watch parts entirely and the description as such."

He also believes that this copyright wouldn't survive unless Barry's model was CLOSELY copied, including most of the layout, but the challenge would have to be made in court. Also, Barry could determine that, depending on his confidence level, the defending of his copyright wouldn't be worth the cost and that just scaring others out of doing this for a few years gives him a market advantage, a head start, if you will.

.
 

Brooks803

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wow...what a one of a kind pen that I can't find anywhere else....except for the SOYP thread of course...and I doubt the black and gold plating will last longer than ANY clock in my house.
 

LarryDNJR

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Honestly I'd like to know why after reading most of these comments why I had one deleted by a mod where I was just in a sense trying to shed some light on a comment not needing to be said when someone was showing off something they did to be proud of regardless of who came up with the idea/style first? I was suggested to post in a another forum if I wanted to discuss it further? Is this the correct forum for that? I mean no disrespect to the mod in question, I think he is a decent guy but seeing a posting here by him that basically did the same thing I did calling the person out of a comment.

If I'm off base I apologize. Just sort of confused.
 
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Yikes....this took me forever to get thru all the postings. You can buy tons of steampunk watch gears etc on ebay...and if someone wants to make me some blanks...I would be the fist to buy some....I would even buy you the watch parts....Legal or not...its still art in one shape of form...and sorry...I seen that type of pen years ago when I was a teenager....so not sure why anyone thinks they have the right to say they own the idea...but thats just my thought...so...come on....make me some blanks.....
 
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glwalker

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Here's an idea... maybe original... maybe not.

Mentioned in earlier posts was the thought of mass production and the associated high labor costs which would make it difficult to make "sellable" watch part/punkart pens.

Though admittedly not a real "classy" idea, could you make a nice layout of parts, take a high quality photo and wrap that around a tube to make a blank. (many blanks!)

If this seems like a good idea, whoever does this, just send me a pen in payment for my original thought. Also if this is do-able, just think of all the possiblities.
 
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