14mm multi-start threading

[Texatdurango]

If you decide to join in the conversation, lets PLEASE try to stay on the topic of using the 14mm multi-start tap and die in making a pen and not drift into other areas such as where to buy nibs or why use multi-start threads or do fountain pens sell well in your area!

Since several members are just starting out with tapping and threading and can't wait to get their first "made from scratch" masterpiece started, there are a few points they may not be familiar with so I thought this might help a little.

First.......... This is not THE WAY way of doing this, it's just a way I find that works for me, feel free to add your own experiences and what works for you. This thread is also NOT meant to be a debate on multi-start versus single start threads, I'm assuming readers already chose the multi-start threads else they wouldn't be reading this thread!

The first thing you want to do is drill a hole in the cap so you can tap the threads. Generally when using metric taps you subtract the pitch from the diameter to arrive at the proper drill size to use. In the case of the 14mm x .8mm multi-start tap we would subtract the .8mm from the 14mm to come up with a 13.2mm drill size. A 33/64" drill is the closest I have to that size so I chose that bit to drill my cap.

Next you will want to turn a tenon on the lower body to accept the die. It is generally accepted to cut the tenon the same diameter as the thread diameter which in our case is 14mm or .551" but I usually find that cutting a hair under produces pleasing results. In this case I turned the tenon to .546", sprayed a bit of aerosol cooking spray then the die cut the threads like butter.

So there you have it, the cap and body have been threaded and below is a shot of what a very quick and crude pen would look like.

I think using these 14mm threads is going to open up some interesting design ideas. In my opinion the "standard" 6mm Berea section looks too small for this pen so a nice larger custom section is in order to make it look balanced. Hopefully today I will find some time to make such a section and will repost the results.

Actually, I bought a new SD chip for my camera so can now take short videos. Would anyone be interested in seeing the Little Machine Shop die holder in action cutting threads using the 1 1/2" die?

 

[Haynie]

So, I have been trying to figure this out. Why the multistart thread? Does it offer some sort of benefit? And last but not least, where do people get their multistart taps? Yes I know there was a group buy but where would someone pick one up? Nice pen by the way.

 

[theidlemind]

Yes to the video.

If a picture is worth a thousand words............
I'd love to see a video.

 

[marter1229]

Great thread!

YES

 

[Texatdurango]

So, I have been trying to figure this out. Why the multistart thread? Does it offer some sort of benefit? And last but not least, where do people get their multistart taps? Yes I know there was a group buy but where would someone pick one up? Nice pen by the way.

There has been a ton of discussion/debate in several forums on multi-start versus single start threads, I sincerely hope this thread does not turn into such a debate. Do a search om multi-start and I'm sure you'll find the answers you seek.

As far as the recent group buy on the 14mm sets, I believe Mike said he had a few extra sets. I would suggest visiting the group buy thread and drop Mike a line.

 

[joefyffe]

About the video, Does THE Ursus Americanus deficate in the forrest?

Since several members are just starting out with tapping and threading and can't wait to get their first "made from scratch" masterpiece started, there are a few points they may not be familiar with so I thought this might help a little.

First.......... This is not THE WAY way of doing this, it's just a way I find that works for me, feel free to add your own experiences and what works for you. This thread is also NOT meant to be a debate on multi-start versus single start threads, I'm assuming readers already chose the multi-start threads else they wouldn't be reading this thread!

The first thing you want to do is drill a hole in the cap so you can tap the threads. Generally when using metric taps you subtract the pitch from the diameter to arrive at the proper drill size to use. In the case of the 14mm x .8mm multi-start tap we would subtract the .8mm from the 14mm to come up with a 13.2mm drill size. A 33/64" drill is the closest I have to that size so I chose that bit to drill my cap.

Next you will want to turn a tenon on the lower body to accept the die. It is generally accepted to cut the tenon the same diameter as the thread diameter which in our case is 14mm or .551" but I usually find that cutting a hair under produces pleasing results. In this case I turned the tenon to .546", sprayed a bit of aerosol cooking spray then the die cut the threads like butter.

So there you have it, the cap and body have been threaded and below is a shot of what a very quick and crude pen would look like.

I think using these 14mm threads is going to open up some interesting design ideas. In my opinion the "standard" 6mm Berea section looks too small for this pen so a nice larger custom section is in order to make it look balanced. Hopefully today I will find some time to make such a section and will repost the results.

Actually, I bought a new SD chip for my camera so can now take short videos. Would anyone be interested in seeing the Little Machine Shop die holder in action cutting threads using the 1 1/2" die?

 

[Grampy122]

Yes to the video.

I would like to see a tutorial in the library (with pictures and video's) of the whole kitless process.

 

[lorbay]

Actually, I bought a new SD chip for my camera so can now take short videos. Would anyone be interested in seeing the Little Machine Shop die holder in action cutting threads using the 1 1/2" die?




I would love to see this.

Lin.

 

[lorbay]

About the video, Does THE Ursus Americanus deficate in the forrest?

Since several members are just starting out with tapping and threading and can't wait to get their first "made from scratch" masterpiece started, there are a few points they may not be familiar with so I thought this might help a little.

First.......... This is not THE WAY way of doing this, it's just a way I find that works for me, feel free to add your own experiences and what works for you. This thread is also NOT meant to be a debate on multi-start versus single start threads, I'm assuming readers already chose the multi-start threads else they wouldn't be reading this thread!

The first thing you want to do is drill a hole in the cap so you can tap the threads. Generally when using metric taps you subtract the pitch from the diameter to arrive at the proper drill size to use. In the case of the 14mm x .8mm multi-start tap we would subtract the .8mm from the 14mm to come up with a 13.2mm drill size. A 33/64" drill is the closest I have to that size so I chose that bit to drill my cap.

Next you will want to turn a tenon on the lower body to accept the die. It is generally accepted to cut the tenon the same diameter as the thread diameter which in our case is 14mm or .551" but I usually find that cutting a hair under produces pleasing results. In this case I turned the tenon to .546", sprayed a bit of aerosol cooking spray then the die cut the threads like butter.

So there you have it, the cap and body have been threaded and below is a shot of what a very quick and crude pen would look like.

I think using these 14mm threads is going to open up some interesting design ideas. In my opinion the "standard" 6mm Berea section looks too small for this pen so a nice larger custom section is in order to make it look balanced. Hopefully today I will find some time to make such a section and will repost the results.

Actually, I bought a new SD chip for my camera so can now take short videos. Would anyone be interested in seeing the Little Machine Shop die holder in action cutting threads using the 1 1/2" die?

Yes it does.

Lin.

 

[ohiococonut]

Very quick and crude? To my untrained eye it looks very nice.

Having worked in heavy industrial maintenance for over 30yrs I am very familiar with cutting all manner of thread in various material but when it comes to pens there is so much confusion it's hard sometimes to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I would much prefer to see ONE example simply about threading without other interference. When I start reading threads about threading the subject often migrates to different size threads and nibs. All I'm looking for is ONE simple explanation and it appears you may have started that. Now if we can just keep it that way I won't loose interest.

YES, I would love to see a short video. "Threading for Dummies" if you please.

 

[Chthulhu]

So, I have been trying to figure this out. Why the multistart thread? Does it offer some sort of benefit? And last but not least, where do people get their multistart taps? Yes I know there was a group buy but where would someone pick one up? Nice pen by the way.

Multiple-start cap threads allow the cap to be removed more quickly. For example, a 3/8"-32 thread over a 1/8" threaded length requires four turns to disengage; a 4-start version of the same thread requires only one turn.

A 3/8"-8 single-start thread would also require only one turn, but the thread profile is eight times as large and much less comfortable to hold.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Did he say quick and crude??

 

[MarkD]

George, Thanks for starting this thread! Your "very quick and crude pen" looks pretty darn nice to me! :biggrin:

I would interested in seeing a video of using the taps and dies.

 

[Texatdurango]

Did he say quick and crude??

Yes he, me, I did.


The first prototype was using delrin, this is the second using acrylic. I skipped using clear since I was confident with the sizes used in the delrin. When I make a larger section that looks better with the larger body I'll clean up the joint where the cap meets the body. I'm surprised no one caught that yet!

 

[Knucklefish]

Would love to see the video. Thanks so much for starting this thread.

 

[Jim15]

Yes George, I would appreciate it if you would post a video. Thank you.

 

[ohiococonut]

George based on some of the pictures I've seen apparently "effective" thread length doesn't play a part in this so I've got a few questions.

1) How do you determine how long the threads need to be on the nib end?

2) Do you turn longer threads in the cap? And if so do you do this so the cap can be turned down to match the pattern?

3) Do you cut a leade or chamfer in the cap to make threading the cap on easier?

Questions, questions............. I have questions.

 

[scotian12]

My tap and die just arrived yesterday so I'm glued to my computer chair today eagerly awaiting new posts on this thread of how to use the Tap. By all means George please show us a video as you have time. Thanks for your knowledge and time. Darrell Eisner

 

[flash880]

I would like to see a tutorial in the library (with pictures and video's) of the whole kitless process.

Amen i would love to see it.

 

[rherrell]

Next you will want to turn a tenon on the lower body to accept the die. It is generally accepted to cut the tenon the same diameter as the thread diameter which in our case is 14mm or .551" but I usually find that cutting a hair under produces pleasing results. In this case I turned the tenon to .546", sprayed a bit of aerosol cooking spray then the die cut the threads like butter.


George, a good rule of thumb when making a tenon to fit a threading die is minus 1% of nominal for non- ferrous metals and plastics and minus 2% for ferrous metals. In your example you're right at minus 1% so in this case the rule of thumb works.

I find that this rule will get you in the ballpark but depending on the size and type of thread you may need to make some adjustments.

When threading metal I find that FINE threads require removing a tad more material than COARSE threads, just the opposite of what I thought.

 

[Dalecamino]

Put me in favor of the video too George.

 

[Lenny]

I would like to see a video!!!
I'm not going to Beg you .... but ... :wink:
PLEASE! PRETTY PLEASE!! PLEASE ! PLEASE!!!

 

[burgerman]

Nice pen George. Yes, please, as to the video. Thanks,

 

[Texatdurango]

I just shot a quick video showing threading with the Little Machine Shop die holder and an adapter I made to hold an 1 1/2" die. Nothing spectacular but hopefully it takes some of the mystery out of threading male threads.

I just started uploading the .mov file to Youtube and it's showing 143 minutes remaining so when it's done, I'll post a link to it.

 

[JerrySambrook]

Excellent job George. and a very nicely crafted pen there as well

Jerry

 

[nsfr1206]

Your 143 minutes are up.

 

[nsfr1206]

Your 143 minutes are up.

Well not quite I guess.

 

[joefyffe]

Leave him alone!! He's two hours behind us!!:biggrin::biggrin:

Your 143 minutes are up.

Well not quite I guess.

 

[bitshird]

Thanks George, looking forward to it.

 

[Texatdurango]

Hmmmmmm. According to the time progress bar this thing should have uploaded by now. I just came to the pc to grab the link and share it but it still shows 86% complete with about 31 minutes left BUT it has said that for three or four minutes now, I hope it didn't stall out or time out.

A question to the pc gurus out there....... I have a Linksys wireless router which my new laptop is getting it's internet signal from.

The laptop has a Cat5 network input and the router has the same outlet plug. Would the laptop run any faster on the internet IF I was hard wired to the router rather than a wireless signal?

 

[Sylvanite]

Would the laptop run any faster on the internet IF I was hard wired to the router rather than a wireless signal?

Probably not. To take my system as an example, Both the router and the laptop support 100Mb/s wired. The router supports 802.11n wireless, which transfers up to 150Mb/s (300 in theory under the right circumstances). The laptop, however, only does 802.11g, which is 54Mb/s. My DSL connection is bandwidth limited to 3Mb/s (I could get more, but I'd have to pay more), and that is maximim download speed. Upload is much slower. Even if you have cable, and higher bandwidth limits, they are still much lower than your home network data transfer rates.

The bottleneck is the internet connection, not the home network.

Regards,
Eric

 

[BW Design Works]

Would the laptop run any faster on the internet IF I was hard wired to the router rather than a wireless signal?

Probably not. To take my system as an example, Both the router and the laptop support 100Mb/s wired. The router supports 802.11n wireless, which transfers up to 150Mb/s (300 in theory under the right circumstances). The laptop, however, only does 802.11g, which is 54Mb/s. My DSL connection is bandwidth limited to 3Mb/s (I could get more, but I'd have to pay more), and that is maximim download speed. Upload is much slower. Even if you have cable, and higher bandwidth limits, they are still much lower than your home network data transfer rates.

The bottleneck is the internet connection, not the home network.



Regards,
Eric

Eric is correct. If you wireless signal is excellent then hard wire connect will not speed it up. It all depends on what kind of connection you are using, DSL, Cable, or better and how much band width you are playing for from that provider.

Looking forward to the video :biggrin:

 

[khogan16]

Hmmmmmm. According to the time progress bar this thing should have uploaded by now. I just came to the pc to grab the link and share it but it still shows 86% complete with about 31 minutes left BUT it has said that for three or four minutes now, I hope it didn't stall out or time out.

A question to the pc gurus out there....... I have a Linksys wireless router which my new laptop is getting it's internet signal from.

The laptop has a Cat5 network input and the router has the same outlet plug. Would the laptop run any faster on the internet IF I was hard wired to the router rather than a wireless signal?

The short answer is possibly, You should plug it in and try it. part of the problem is we dont know what model router your using are you using a DSL or Cable modem and then what it the speed that you pay for . You can go to www.speedtest.net to get a basis of what through put your actually getting. Check that with what your paying for to make sure your actually getting the right speed.

From there you can check to make sure that your wireless router isn't choking your connection. I know this doesn't give you a definitive answer but the speed/through put is really depends on your provider. Once you know that answer then you start to look at your components.

 

[Texatdurango]

Sorry for the delay, the upload earlier stopped at 83% so I started another and it died after an hour so I started looking for alternatives. I plugged the cat5 cable directly into the laptop and checked the speed on a speedcheck website and no change. I download at 5mbps but upload only at .5mbps and that's the problem.

I did however have a look at my camera settings and the first file was 590mb because it was filmed at 1280 x 720 HD! I changed the settings to use 640 x 480 and basically the same amount of time was spent shooting the second video BUT... the file size was only 158mb, quite a bit smaller.

NOW the upload is rocking right along with only 29 minutes remaining so.......I'm crossing my fingers!

You guys don't get too excited over this because it REALLY isn't that big of a deal, it's just a quick shot of threading the lower body threads using the mt-2 mounted die holder and the adapter I made.

 

[Texatdurango]

Tada, We have a video!

It's short and sweet but hopefully takes some mystery out of using a tailstock mounted die holder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqqyJVwCJBI

 

[Curly]

Nice little flick George. Thanks.

Now if you go back and reverse the die in the holder and chase the threads you just made you will have full depth threads right to the shoulder. Mind you it may not matter for pens. :wink:

Pete

 

[Dalecamino]

Good job George. Well worth the effort. Now onward and, upward!

 

[BW Design Works]

Looks good George! We would have to make or buy an adapter to use the Inch and a half die on the little machine shop holder correct?

 

[joefyffe]

Thanks George!! You showed me what I was doing wrong!! I was treating it like metal!:frown:

 

[Texatdurango]

Looks good George! We would have to make or buy an adapter to use the Inch and a half die on the little machine shop holder correct?

That is correct. It just dawned on me after watching the video myself that it APPEARS that I am pushing the Little Machine Shop holder but I am not! It just happens to be the one I have, works like a charm and many other members have this holder or are thinking about it.

Thanks George!! You showed me what I was doing wrong!! I was treating it like metal!:frown:

That's one reason for the little video, Over the years I have gottem lots of pm's and email talking about threading and lots of folks mention or make a big deal over the "tommy bar". As you can see I was turning the holder with my fingertips in one forward motion, no need to go back and forth as you might with aluminum or steel to clear the chips away.......... I don't even know where my tommy bar is!:biggrin: