Cody Winters
Member
Hi i am about to make my first fountain pen and i would like to no what i should price it at. I am going to turn a Chrome Olympian fountain pen. And i was thinking of doing it in acrylic. :question:
PRICING FOR PENS 13 year old turner
- Thread starter Cody Winters
- Start date
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wildbill23c
Banned
First of all welcome to the forum. Great to see someone this young interested in pen making.
For pricing, as I've been just getting into this selling business myself, it can be quite frustrating. If you plan on selling them locally depending on where you live, it can be a hard battle. Price them too high and you won't sell any, price them too low and you won't make enough money to recover cost of supplies.
Your best bet is to write down and add up the total cost of your supplies, the pen kit, pen blank, etc. Total all of that up, then figure up how much time it took you to make it, and factor in a bit of money for yourself in the time it took you to make it. Then if you are selling them and have to ship a pen, figure in an additional cost for shipping as well. Fountain pens can be tricky, not very many people use them anymore, so the clientele is going to be hard to find. Acrylic pens usually will bring in quite a bit more money just because of the coloring schemes available. I'm seeing that particular pen kit about $10. Now the issue is, you probably have to order it as you don't have an actual store where you can purchase it locally. So now you have to figure the cost of having that shipped. Your best bet is to order several kits at a time. Then average out your shipping costs between all the pens. So possibly you may be at about $13 for each pen kit.
Here's what I'd end up with if I was doing what you are:
$13 Pen Kit
$5 Acrylic Blank
$5 Time in turning/finishing/assembly
______________
$23 Sub Total W/O Shipping
$5 If you have to ship a pen to someone.
______________
$28 Total W/Shipping
Now I'm not saying your time isn't worth anything, I'm just making my pens more for the hobby, and if I sell a few great. So I don't charge much ($5) for my time, it really doesn't take very long to make a pen start to finish, usually you can do 2-3 an hour and sometimes even more depending on your speed.
I really hope some of my rambling helped you out some.
For pricing, as I've been just getting into this selling business myself, it can be quite frustrating. If you plan on selling them locally depending on where you live, it can be a hard battle. Price them too high and you won't sell any, price them too low and you won't make enough money to recover cost of supplies.
Your best bet is to write down and add up the total cost of your supplies, the pen kit, pen blank, etc. Total all of that up, then figure up how much time it took you to make it, and factor in a bit of money for yourself in the time it took you to make it. Then if you are selling them and have to ship a pen, figure in an additional cost for shipping as well. Fountain pens can be tricky, not very many people use them anymore, so the clientele is going to be hard to find. Acrylic pens usually will bring in quite a bit more money just because of the coloring schemes available. I'm seeing that particular pen kit about $10. Now the issue is, you probably have to order it as you don't have an actual store where you can purchase it locally. So now you have to figure the cost of having that shipped. Your best bet is to order several kits at a time. Then average out your shipping costs between all the pens. So possibly you may be at about $13 for each pen kit.
Here's what I'd end up with if I was doing what you are:
$13 Pen Kit
$5 Acrylic Blank
$5 Time in turning/finishing/assembly
______________
$23 Sub Total W/O Shipping
$5 If you have to ship a pen to someone.
______________
$28 Total W/Shipping
Now I'm not saying your time isn't worth anything, I'm just making my pens more for the hobby, and if I sell a few great. So I don't charge much ($5) for my time, it really doesn't take very long to make a pen start to finish, usually you can do 2-3 an hour and sometimes even more depending on your speed.
I really hope some of my rambling helped you out some.
nava1uni
Member
I would imagine that it will take a fair amount of time to turn, finish and assemble the pen. Not to be discouraging I would encourage you to make a few pens before you begin to sell them. Since this will be your first fountain pen it may take you a while to become proficient in making them. I don't know how long you have been making pens but it took me quite a while to make pens that were of a quality that would be worth selling. Make sure that the quality of your work is the best that you can do and when it is then think about pricing. I sell my fountain pens for $75.00 to begin and they go up in price depending on material, finish and nib.
wildbill23c
Banned
How did you arrive at the price? Do you sell online? Reason I'm asking is because I'm just getting into selling myself, and having issues trying to price things. Are you using really expensive kits, or how do you figure prices generally?
Wildbill: Not to be a smarta$$, but if you can only charge five bucks for your time, your pens are probably worth what you are charging. If you are making two or three per hour, I can almost assure the finished product is worth no more than that. It really ticks me off when turners price pens at 20 and 30 dollars with 10 and 15 dollars of their money invested. If you are into it as a hobby, how about just giving them to friends so the rest of us can make a living? If you are making a quality product, and you have invested 30 dollars in materials, you should be able to reap 75 bucks minimum, and some of the higher end names on this site will say, I'm being too generous. Don't sell yourself short, my friend, make a good pen and CHARGE for it! That is the end of my rant! 
P.S. Stay away from 24 k. gold. I'ts junk! If that's what you're using, your pens are probably not worth more than 20 bucks. Now this really is the end of my rant!
thewishman
Member
Post a picture when you finish it and we'll be able to give you a better idea on the pricing.
Holz Mechaniker
Member
Well personally if the young man who is I assume is 17 or 18 nowadays was selling on the high end
Pens For College youtube Video
Pens For College youtube Video
Joe, what I sell my pens for has zero impact on what you can charge for yours? I think a lot of folks who sell pens live with what I consider to be the mistaken notion that if I sell a pen for $25.00 they will have a hard time selling a similar one for $50.Wildbill: Not to be a smarta$$, but if you can only charge five bucks for your time, your pens are probably worth what you are charging. If you are making two or three per hour, I can almost assure the finished product is worth no more than that. It really ticks me off when turners price pens at 20 and 30 dollars with 10 and 15 dollars of their money invested. If you are into it as a hobby, how about just giving them to friends so the rest of us can make a living? If you are making a quality product, and you have invested 30 dollars in materials, you should be able to reap 75 bucks minimum, and some of the higher end names on this site will say, I'm being too generous. Don't sell yourself short, my friend, make a good pen and CHARGE for it! That is the end of my rant!
That isn't the case at all, I recently sold an order of pens for $25.00 each that most sellers here would probably priced at $45.00 or more. Even at that I had a better margin than I have on the kits I sell.
Now, the buyer was not going to buy those pens from you or anyone else, nor was he doing price comparisons with other pen turners. He came and looked at my pens, decided they (the pens) would be suitable for what he had in mind (Christmas gifts for a group of people both men and women) and gave me an order. My competition in that case was not other pen turners, it was anybody selling gift items suitable to his purpose within his price range.
Value of time - to me it is what I could get for alternate use of the time. If it is time I would otherwise have spent watching the idiocy on the boob tube then I probably should be paying the customers. The pen making time is so much better spent.
greggas
Member
Every time someone posts about pricing it inevitably leads to the " you have no right to tell someone what they should charge in their market" posts.
This is true.... although I wish folks would remember the internet is everyone's market before they sell their pens at less than material costs !
This young man is just starting ( I assume) to work for money. I think it is better to teach him to charge a fair price for his efforts than to advise him to work for less than the minimum wage. But that's just me
Good luck Cody
P.S. if you really start to sell pens on a regular basis I would start at 3-4 times your total material ( kit, blank, sand paper, finish material, tax, electricity, wear and tear on equipment, shipping) costs.
This is true.... although I wish folks would remember the internet is everyone's market before they sell their pens at less than material costs !
This young man is just starting ( I assume) to work for money. I think it is better to teach him to charge a fair price for his efforts than to advise him to work for less than the minimum wage. But that's just me
Good luck Cody
P.S. if you really start to sell pens on a regular basis I would start at 3-4 times your total material ( kit, blank, sand paper, finish material, tax, electricity, wear and tear on equipment, shipping) costs.
healeydays
Member
Folks,
Please remember that a 13 year old just getting into pen turning asked the question. Please don't scare him off as we want to encourage the next generation, not discourage...
I had a sales at a "crafts fair" at the place I am doing some consulting work at, and even though I could have gotten a lot more for them elsewhere, I priced some very nice Sierra/Mesa pens at $25 so that these folks, who process insurance claims and don't make a ton of money could give a nice pen to someone special for the Holidays. At other locations, I would price these at $50-$75 depending on the materials.
Bottom line, sell to what your market can bear. If you can sell high dollars, go for it. If you don't have a market for that, plan accordingly by either making the decision not to sell at all or find a new market.
Sorry if I upset the folks who try to make a living on this, but you can't sell a Porsche to someone who just wants to haul around the 4 kids and get groceries...
Mike B
Please remember that a 13 year old just getting into pen turning asked the question. Please don't scare him off as we want to encourage the next generation, not discourage...
I had a sales at a "crafts fair" at the place I am doing some consulting work at, and even though I could have gotten a lot more for them elsewhere, I priced some very nice Sierra/Mesa pens at $25 so that these folks, who process insurance claims and don't make a ton of money could give a nice pen to someone special for the Holidays. At other locations, I would price these at $50-$75 depending on the materials.
Bottom line, sell to what your market can bear. If you can sell high dollars, go for it. If you don't have a market for that, plan accordingly by either making the decision not to sell at all or find a new market.
Sorry if I upset the folks who try to make a living on this, but you can't sell a Porsche to someone who just wants to haul around the 4 kids and get groceries...
Mike B
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LanceD
Member
If you're just getting started I would not even think about selling my first couple of dozen pens or even more until you become proficient on your fit and the quality of your finish. As stated above, give most away to friend and relatives and learn from each one you make. Then after you feel that you could put out a quality pen, fit and finish wise then start selling them at a cost you feel they are worth.
wildbill23c
Banned
Wildbill: Not to be a smarta$$, but if you can only charge five bucks for your time, your pens are probably worth what you are charging. If you are making two or three per hour, I can almost assure the finished product is worth no more than that. It really ticks me off when turners price pens at 20 and 30 dollars with 10 and 15 dollars of their money invested. If you are into it as a hobby, how about just giving them to friends so the rest of us can make a living? If you are making a quality product, and you have invested 30 dollars in materials, you should be able to reap 75 bucks minimum, and some of the higher end names on this site will say, I'm being too generous. Don't sell yourself short, my friend, make a good pen and CHARGE for it! That is the end of my rant!
Ok, so how do you guys figure on making a pen a $75 pen, when you only have about $15-20 tied up in it? Surely you aren't paying yourself $40+ an hour to make the pen.
Any links or places to visit that shows a good demonstration of different quality and pricing? Curious how that works.
Thanks for the info as well, always good to hear back on what something should be priced at and how its going to sell. I think my issue is the lack of a market. Even online its not working.
My observation at this site is that a lot of folks forget Economics 101 when they discuss pricing. That's no surprise, most of the folks here never took Economics 101. Failure to instill an adequate understanding of Economics and our economy is (in my opinion) a major short coming of our educational system. It is almost ignored completely below college and not required for many degrees.
That btw is not a new thing caused by education going down hill, in fact, it was probably worse 50 years ago than it is today.
That btw is not a new thing caused by education going down hill, in fact, it was probably worse 50 years ago than it is today.
I've been in retail manufacturing my entire working life, starting in 1982. Rule of thumb right now is the 3X rule, a third to cover cost of supplies, a third to cover labor and a third to go back into the company. This is a guideline and market response will have to be considered. I can make a slimline with a good friction polish finish in no time and sell it handily for a low price. I can make a good Sierra style and NOT be able to get 3X because that pen isn't what my market wants. My market, low end craft shows, wants functional art at affordable prices. Pens are a supplement to my other turnings because my other turnings sell better. I do rely on kits, exclusively still, and can't be competition for someone making custom kitless. We're not in the same market. Pricing is subjective, customers are fickle and skill sets vary. My pens are made fast and my quality is high and consistent. Can I make $75 or more per pen? Absolutely. Is that for the majority of my current target market? No. I make what I believe they will buy.
To the original poster...start at cost times 3. Add a box and shipping if needed on top. THEN determine if your target market will pay for the product you're offering. Adjust accordingly.
To the original poster...start at cost times 3. Add a box and shipping if needed on top. THEN determine if your target market will pay for the product you're offering. Adjust accordingly.
glenspens
Member
Do you look at yourself as 1: laborer if so then add all your stuff up and add in your mark up an put a price on or 2: artisan/craftsman if so then you decide what you are worth(or your goods are worth ) and go with it , if someone else see what you see then it will move if not then you have a choice to make. as for the new 13 year old turner goes i say.. X2or3 or what he has in kit and blank so he can buy another kit and blank ......keep on turnning ....just how i see it
wildbill23c
Banned
Awesome information guys, thanks. I'm just starting out, and have thus far turned a few dozen pens, I admit the first 6-7 went in the scrap box LOL. However, I was learning at the time and figure mistakes are going to happen more so early on than later as I have learned from past mistakes.
Many of you have far more knowledge than I have especially on the business side of things, yes, I took economics in high school, but that was all a blur, hardly remember anything from it unfortunately. I have some small business books from a small business course I took, I think for myself its time to get to studying and comprehending what I have forgotten.
Thanks again everyone.
Many of you have far more knowledge than I have especially on the business side of things, yes, I took economics in high school, but that was all a blur, hardly remember anything from it unfortunately. I have some small business books from a small business course I took, I think for myself its time to get to studying and comprehending what I have forgotten.
Thanks again everyone.
Haynie
Member
Age is beside the point. If your pen can stand up to another, made by an adult, it should command the same price.
If I was your age and wondering this I would contact a pen maker in your area, or close to you who sells pens. Many of us do not. Ask that person to give you a real world once over of your pen. It might hurt but you will grow and you will KNOW your pens can command the high prices or what it will take to make it so. Good luck.
If I was your age and wondering this I would contact a pen maker in your area, or close to you who sells pens. Many of us do not. Ask that person to give you a real world once over of your pen. It might hurt but you will grow and you will KNOW your pens can command the high prices or what it will take to make it so. Good luck.
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tjseagrove
Member
Try looking at www.PensInk.com - Home for some inspiration. She is around 13-14 and has been making pens locally for a few years.
wildbill23c
Banned
Wow you guys are awesome with excellent advice. Thank you.
kovalcik
Member
Go to a few craft/art shows and look for pen turners. Note their pricing, what they are selling, the quality of their work, and their selling methods. Watch to see how they do. If you see a slow period, you can try talking to them (usually very early or very late in the day). Some people are more open than others regarding sharing marketing strategies with other turners. I will gladly talk to other turners at shows, just don't be offended if I excuse myself a few times to talk to customers.
Different environments and locations will have different types of customers. In the end, you have to set your inventory and price your pens to match the customer.
Different environments and locations will have different types of customers. In the end, you have to set your inventory and price your pens to match the customer.
Mike Powell
Member
I sell mine 3 x kit price + blank+ 10. For lower end kits for better ones it just depends on how hard it was for me to make it The most expensive I have sold is a classic FP for 50, that was made of Olive Wood.
Cody, good for you. My son started turning and selling pens at age 11 when after he saw a Wood Magazine article on penturning (about the young man linked to earlier). He started selling Slimlines and Trimlines for $15 to friend and family and that's probably what his pens were worth. Now he's 14 and did his first small craft show in December. The pens he does are generally more expensive (he does well with Sierra's, Atrax, and the occasional fountain pen). His pricing formula has changed too. Typically he uses the 2.5 to 3 times materials rule to keep it simple. Some pens he adjusts up or down from there.
The gist of my advice is start simple and go from there. You will do well.
Good luck.
The gist of my advice is start simple and go from there. You will do well.
Good luck.
I've been using this as my "rule of thumb." It's from an article and seemed to fit my needs:
3x the price of the kit
Plus
5x the price of the blank
Plus
a markup depending upon the kit. The markup starts at $5ish (for a low-end thinline) and goes up depending upon e the pen itself, the finish, and the market.
If it starts looking to high or too low to me, I modify the price accordingly.
Here are a couple of links to the stuff I read (in addition to this site!) before settling upon this formula. The Timberbits blog article is short and sweet!
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodnews/2009april/goingpro.html
http://www.timberbits.com/blog/?p=197
Cheers,
J
3x the price of the kit
Plus
5x the price of the blank
Plus
a markup depending upon the kit. The markup starts at $5ish (for a low-end thinline) and goes up depending upon e the pen itself, the finish, and the market.
If it starts looking to high or too low to me, I modify the price accordingly.
Here are a couple of links to the stuff I read (in addition to this site!) before settling upon this formula. The Timberbits blog article is short and sweet!
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodnews/2009april/goingpro.html
http://www.timberbits.com/blog/?p=197
Cheers,
J
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Waluy
Member
I went a slightly different route. I chose a number I wanted to make off each pen. For me this was $15 then add price of kit rounded to the nearest $5 then add price of the blank rounded to the nearest $5.
Then if I notice a certain kit is not selling at the desired cost I either lower what I want to make or more likely don't make that pen anymore except on custom orders.
EDIT: The one exception to this pricing is the bolt action as I asked for $50 for the first one and immediately sold it and 3 other custom orders for them. So $50 seemed like the best price for them.
Then if I notice a certain kit is not selling at the desired cost I either lower what I want to make or more likely don't make that pen anymore except on custom orders.
EDIT: The one exception to this pricing is the bolt action as I asked for $50 for the first one and immediately sold it and 3 other custom orders for them. So $50 seemed like the best price for them.
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wildbill23c
Banned
Awesome answers everyone. Thank you very much. I am in category B, I do it for more or less a hobby, and like others if I sell one great, if it sets around the house for a while before someone wants it, fine.
P.S. Just sold a Bolt Action Pen like the picture of the one I made that I posted in the show off your pens under the "My first Bolt Action Pen". A guy at the feed store saw my mom filling out a check with it and wants one. So out to the shop I go. I like when stuff like this sells right off the bat, it makes me feel better, and gives me an idea of what is most popular.
P.S. Just sold a Bolt Action Pen like the picture of the one I made that I posted in the show off your pens under the "My first Bolt Action Pen". A guy at the feed store saw my mom filling out a check with it and wants one. So out to the shop I go. I like when stuff like this sells right off the bat, it makes me feel better, and gives me an idea of what is most popular.
Cody Winters
Member
thanks i will have a pic soon
wildbill23c
Banned
Can't wait to see the results Cody.
edicehouse
Member
It's all about what you are comfortable with. Some people here will get $100 for a pen and you would be lucky to get $35. I imagine some will not turn on their lathe for under $50.
If you are satisfied with making $1 dollar on a pen, then price it at that. Just remember if you blow up a blank and you have $1 profit margin, you lose money.
If you are satisfied with making $1 dollar on a pen, then price it at that. Just remember if you blow up a blank and you have $1 profit margin, you lose money.
wildbill23c
Banned
Where is a good place to find a list of Pen Shows around the country?
Holz Mechaniker
Member
there are 14 pen show
the first is in Philadelphia that is happening next weekend.
the others are located throughout the U.S.
Please note, unless your doing kit-less fountain pens or kit-less pens in general. or you have a massive collection of vintage fountain pens. Or have an account with Twsbi, Montblanc, Pilot, Pelikan, Lamy, (just to name a few) Chances are you will NOT do much if any business with anything made from a kit. DAMHIKT.
some of the other that I know of are the DC pen show Ohio Pen show, Chicago, Los Angeles, Detroit From those you may find the others.
Good Luck
the first is in Philadelphia that is happening next weekend.
the others are located throughout the U.S.
Please note, unless your doing kit-less fountain pens or kit-less pens in general. or you have a massive collection of vintage fountain pens. Or have an account with Twsbi, Montblanc, Pilot, Pelikan, Lamy, (just to name a few) Chances are you will NOT do much if any business with anything made from a kit. DAMHIKT.
some of the other that I know of are the DC pen show Ohio Pen show, Chicago, Los Angeles, Detroit From those you may find the others.
Good Luck
Cody,
One other piece of advice. When you have a few pens in stock, create an Etsy page. My son does not sell a lot of pens on Etsy, however, it's an inexpensive place to send people to see samples of his work and it lends credibility to his business. People are generally impressed when they go to the site and see a logo and "professional" presentation. It gives him a bit more credibility. We came up with a load of $5 to $7 to defray Etsy and Paypal fees for any pens he does happen to sell there.
One other piece of advice. When you have a few pens in stock, create an Etsy page. My son does not sell a lot of pens on Etsy, however, it's an inexpensive place to send people to see samples of his work and it lends credibility to his business. People are generally impressed when they go to the site and see a logo and "professional" presentation. It gives him a bit more credibility. We came up with a load of $5 to $7 to defray Etsy and Paypal fees for any pens he does happen to sell there.
keithbyrd
Member
I use a very simple formula on excel - plug in the numbers and get an answer then adjust based on market, uniqueness etc etc
Pen Cost $20
Labor/Hr $45
Mark Up 1.5
Time 1.0
Labor Cost $45
Price $97.50
cost = cost of materials in pen kit, blanks, sand paper, glue, shipping etc
Labor is what I would have to charge as a business person to make my time worth it
Mark up generates the profit on the cost (material and labor)
Time equals time to produce
Total labor cost = labor x time
Price = cost+labor cost x markup
Pen Cost $20
Labor/Hr $45
Mark Up 1.5
Time 1.0
Labor Cost $45
Price $97.50
cost = cost of materials in pen kit, blanks, sand paper, glue, shipping etc
Labor is what I would have to charge as a business person to make my time worth it
Mark up generates the profit on the cost (material and labor)
Time equals time to produce
Total labor cost = labor x time
Price = cost+labor cost x markup
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Don't let the tax man see that....
keithbyrd
Member
[/quote]Don't let the tax man see that....[/QUOTE]
Not being a tax man - what is wrong with this? Don't want to create any problems for my self!
Not being a tax man - what is wrong with this? Don't want to create any problems for my self!
A sole proprietor can not figure a salary or cost of their own labor into the cost of their business. So both the price of your labor and the markup you're making on it would be considered "gross profit".
keithbyrd
Member
wildbill23c
Banned
Well apparently nobody in Idaho makes pens, or uses or sells them because there aren't any pen shows here in Idaho of course, closest one would be Vegas, and with only 1 day off from work a week that ain't gonna happen.
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Dan Masshardt
Member
no competition woo hoo!