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Old 03-29-2018, 09:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default FP Cartridge Diameter

OK, maybe I'm having a senior moment here... I sold a nice segmented Sedona Fountain Pen to a gentleman recently. This was at the very end of a show, and he was in a hurry, so we didn't get to talk at length about the care and feeding of the pen.

He contacted me after the sale to ask what cartridges to buy. I told him "Standard International." He contacted me again and told me they were too big. I've noticed that some of the "generic" cartridges I have are .250" in diameter and others are .275"

Is there a clearer spec I need to give people? What *is* the diameter of a "standard" cartridge?

Thanks,

Gary
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtgaryw View Post
OK, maybe I'm having a senior moment here... I sold a nice segmented Sedona Fountain Pen to a gentleman recently. This was at the very end of a show, and he was in a hurry, so we didn't get to talk at length about the care and feeding of the pen.

He contacted me after the sale to ask what cartridges to buy. I told him "Standard International." He contacted me again and told me they were too big. I've noticed that some of the "generic" cartridges I have are .250" in diameter and others are .275"

Is there a clearer spec I need to give people? What *is* the diameter of a "standard" cartridge?

Thanks,

Gary
Gary,
I measured a standard cartridge at .275" or 9/32" or 6.99mm

Les
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtgaryw View Post
He contacted me after the sale to ask what cartridges to buy. I told him "Standard International." He contacted me again and told me they were too big. I've noticed that some of the "generic" cartridges I have are .250" in diameter and others are .275"
I remember when buying some cartridges to go with some Baron kits that I made that some of the international cartridges are too long for the kit. You might want to check to see if your customer means wide or long when he says big.

Geoff


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Old 03-29-2018, 11:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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He definitely said diameter. I have two in front of me, one .250" and one .275", and they're both 1.5" long. Same is true of the pumps.

Most kits seem fine with the .275" diameter that they come with. Some, obviously, need the .250"

So, lesson: a "Standard International" cartridge can be one of several diameters. The shops like ipenstore and coloradopen give the diameter (most are .250")

Thanks,

-gary
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Old 03-29-2018, 11:16 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't THINK (meaning I don't KNOW) that your real problem is the diameter of the cartridge, since the tube is over 0.31" in diameter, at the point of the coupler.

I SUSPECT (another I don't KNOW) that the geometry of the front of the cartridge is different. There is usually a taper down to fit inside the nib, I SUSPECT that is the issue.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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My reading on the subject has led to these conclusions:
- there is no true 'international standard' (ie, a consensus document that defines the dimensions to be used by various subscribing manufacturers). Instead, the 'standard international cartridge' is a design that was originally developed by Pelikan and that is used by many pen manufacturers who don't want the hassle of manufacturing proprietary sealed cartridges.
- sealed Pelikan cartridges come in both a short version (38mm, or 1.5") and a long version (72mm, or 2.8"). Both are nominally 1/4" in diameter.
- the main factor that is of concern is the ID and OD of the nipple that attached to the section. There are variations in these dimensions with the result that not all international cartridges fit all pens that supposedly use international cartridges.
- pens manufactured in Asia (and pens made from kits produced in Asia) tend to use a cartridge similar to the short Pelikan cartridge.
- sealed cartridges are not designed to be refillable, but it is possible to refill them using a syringe.
- most cartridge pens can also be fed using converters (aka 'pumps') that can be refilled by the user. A 'standard international converter' is longer than a 'standard short international cartridge, and it has a slightly greater diameter. However, the ID and OD of the nipple are theoretically the same as for a 'standard international', or Pelikan cartridge. Most converters are refilled using a piston mechanism (either advanced/retracted via knob at the end, or by sliding the piston in/out using a protrusion on the side. I've measured the diameter of a few - they range from 0.281 - 0.3125" at the widest point.

Final point: when fountain pens are made from kits, the cartridge/converter is contained within the brass tube in the body of the pen. The information I have indicates that the Sedona uses either a 10mm or a 25/64" tube, with an ID of about 0.357". So while there could be some discrepancy in the OD of the 'standard international cartridge', that dimension should still be less than the ID of the tube. So something is amiss in the description of the problem here how is it that either a cartridge or converter is not fitting inside that tube?
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:24 PM   #7 (permalink)
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From Monophoto:

Final point: when fountain pens are made from kits, the cartridge/converter is contained within the brass tube in the body of the pen. The information I have indicates that the Sedona uses either a 10mm or a 25/64" tube, with an ID of about 0.357".

You are correct, but when the pen is put together, there is a threaded coupler in the end--your cartridge will have to fit inside that--that dimension is the .31" I referred to above. Still PLENTY of room for any size cartridge mentioned so far.
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Old 04-01-2018, 10:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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The only kit I have ever had a problem with us the Baron. While I have never had a problem with a cartridge, I have always had a problem with the K5 converter. The metal band always catches on the inside section threads, and only just slightly. Enough to snag the converter either going in or when being pulled out.

While I don't do many kits anymore, my fix was simply a light sanding inside the section connector. Just until I got a clean fit.
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