Dayacom nibs

[OKLAHOMAN]

It was brought to our attention by Ed Street in his full review on "Jr Aaron from dayacom/signature pen supply (featuring Toni's polymer clay)" that the nibs on their full sized components and on the components imported by Jon David are JoWo nibs and not to interfere with his thread I though we could discuss the pros and cons of the nibs with the Dayacom logo.

 

[jyreene]

I've made a decent amount (not as many as the show sellers on here) of the Dayacom kit pens with their logo on it. Of those maybe 10% of them had what I now consider a poorer quality nib. I will say that those in the poor category where scratchy or skipped. I have since been able to adjust them properly (thanks IAP and Carl Fisher) and they write as good as any Jowo nib I have used. The rest, right out of the "box", wrote as well as any Jowo/Bock nib I have used.

 

[edstreet]

The nibs on *ALL* of dayacom's fountain pens are made by Jowo.

 

[edstreet]

This might help greatly.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Thanks for clearing that up that all nibs from Dayacom are made by Jpwo Ed. My question is no matter who made the nib, Jowo, Schmidt,or Bock give us the pros or cons on having the Dayacom logo left on them.

 

[jyreene]

FWIW if Dayacom is perceived as inferior then it would be a boon ton all of us if it were not on the. Not would replacing it with some pattern that would be associated with it. That goes for any nib. If its not already associated with a good brand and a quality nib then having no distinguishing marks would be best.

 

[edstreet]

Thanks for clearing that up that all nibs from Dayacom are made by Jpwo Ed. My question is no matter who made the nib, Jowo, Schmidt,or Bock give us the pros or cons on having the Dayacom logo left on them.

This is no different than a car company having multiple lines of vehicles. Model A and model B are made in the same plant with the same equipment but the label is different.

The only viable valid things you can therefore argue is which one looks better.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

I've only been getting into fountain pens for a little while. My observation is that how they write is paramount over a brand for many users.

Seems on the fountain pen network when bock or jowo is mentioned the response is *yawn*.

Like I said, limited experience here.

 

[wood-of-1kind]

Perception is reality and is indeed applicable to nibs. Daycom is 'perceived' to be inferior when mentioned vs. JoWo, Bock or many other popular' brand. Ed is on to something here with his observation of nibs. I for one have been very happy with Daycom nib and do not try to 'upsell' my FP customers with a pricier nib. Perhaps I do not sell to the 'pen snob' crowd but I do ok with most customers. As always your MMV.

 

[Carl Fisher]

JoWo or not, I can safely say that the avenues where I sell my custom pen line would not accept a pen with a Dayacom stamp on it. That said, they typically wouldn't buy a kit based pen either.

For kit pens, the Dayacom is nice to have for someone who may be happy with a smooth writing fountain without the brand snobbery, but the same could be said for a well tuned Chinese or Taiwan nib. The upgrade then becomes salesmanship rather than necessity.

Personally I think an unbranded nib would be a better option from perceived value, especially when you're talking about a $35-45 which is the ballpark of the original review pen.

 

[Chasper]

A man came in our booth and picked out a fountain pen he wanted to buy. Then he pulled out a Junior he had bought from someone else a few years earlier. It looked a little rough but he loved the nib, he asked me if I could put in the same kind of nib. It was a Dayacom Jowo and I had a bag full of them that I had been taking out of Juniors and replacing with Heritance or Bock. Since them I've been replacing then selling them as upgrades from IPGs.

No, I don't think leaving a nib with the name Dayacom on it is a good idea for selling to a serious collector. But for a someone who just wants the pen to write well, I don't mind replacing the IPG with a Dayacom and charging an extra $20 for the upgrade. BTW, I could use a few dozen more Dayacoms if anyone has some to sell, may bag of Dayacoms is going to run out eventually.

 

[MarkD]

So am I understanding this correctly that if the only difference between a Dayacom, Wojo and Heritance nib is the logo stamped on it?
If so the only reason to replace a Dayacom nib with a Heritance or Wojo nib would be because it has a higher perceived value. In this case having a Dayacom logo is not an advantage.

 

[edstreet]

Either perception or lack of understanding is not really the topic. However labeling is.

Every high end item will have a label on it in some manner. Those without a label tends to get devalued. Labels likes to equate their product to some type of emotion for sensationalism. This is no different than with Dayacom, who has tried to equate their label with quality.

In the fountain pen community there is one company well known and that logo on the nib will sell the pen faster than the others. Also true fountain pen users will not run at the sight of 'kit pens' but ask questions such as "has it been binderized"

So am I understanding this correctly that if the only difference between a Dayacom, Wojo and Heritance nib is the logo stamped on it?
If so the only reason to replace a Dayacom nib with a Heritance or Wojo nib would be because it has a higher perceived value. In this case having a Dayacom logo is not an advantage.

Yes you understand that correctly.
The biggest reason to swap is not for 'quality' but visual appeal.

 

[keithbyrd]

I am a relative newbie with fountain pens. So I have some that simply say Iridium Point Germany - on them. I think I was told that they were Schmidt? Any truth to that?

 

[edstreet]

I am a relative newbie with fountain pens. So I have some that simply say Iridium Point Germany - on them. I think I was told that they were Schmidt? Any truth to that?

IPG Nibs.
What does "IPG"
Really Mean?

Note the line where it states this:

One might ask, "What about Schmidt". Schmidt does not manufacture nibs. Schmidt buys their nibs from JoWo and Bock and then they assemble and distribute.

Richard Binder - IPG nibs.

 

[brownsfn2]

Every high end item will have a label on it in some manner. Those without a label tends to get devalued.

I think in this case Dayacom adding their name or label to the nib is devaluing it among fountain pen enthusiasts. I think they tend to look at it as a kit nib and therefore lesser quality.

 

[edstreet]

Every high end item will have a label on it in some manner. Those without a label tends to get devalued.

I think in this case Dayacom adding their name or label to the nib is devaluing it among fountain pen enthusiasts. I think they tend to look at it as a kit nib and therefore lesser quality.

Correct.

Which begs the question. If they can't see that it's a kit pen without seeing the dayacom logo on it then they need serious help.

One other group of 'customers' that you can get is those who hear you 'turn' and run away screaming at that point.

 

[wood-of-1kind]

"Either perception or lack of understanding is not really the topic. However labeling is".


So if JoWo makes three(3) nibs and labels them 1A, 1B, 1C. It "still" is a JoWo nib, right? Call it "salesmanship", call it "ignorance", call it "snobbery" or by any other name, it's still a JoWo nib. Some of "us" like to be fooled and played for fools but some of us what makes a good nib write and "feel" good regardless of what is "stamped" on the body.

 

[chrisk]

IMHO if some potential customers reject the Dayacom nibs a high percentage of responsibility is incumbent on the pen makers community itself.
I was one of these guys when I began (5 years ago) attending some craft shows. I systematically promoted Heritance nibs (at this time), strongly depreciating the standard nibs. After a while, I tried some Dayacom FPs by myself and didn't found any remarkable difference. So I stopped promoting nib upgrades but to FPs afficionados.
As for the average customers, I told them to give a try to the standard nib for 1 month and call me back if they weren't satisfied. I was only called once by a customer who had the opportunity to compare fine Heritance and F + X-F Bock nibs. (He finally selected a Heritance F-nib).
Meanwhile, the rumour about the "chinese-made Dayacom nibs" was tenacious... even if Craft Supplies USA regularly emphasized that the Dayacom nibs are made in Germany.

 

[edstreet]

Nib branding/logo's/symbols should stand on their own. Being free of apparent marketing and have good artistic value.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Folks, let us all think of JoWo and Bock as General Motors. Both companies will make nibs in different grades or models if you will. General Motors today makes in their Chevrolet line up $65,000 Corvette Stingrays and Spark from $12,500 , both are Chevy's but are different grades of car. So it is with the major nib companies, they have grades also according to the specks the company who orders from them. I'm not saying that the Dayacom nib is not the same grade as the Conway Stewart nib also made by Jowo, but it gives us something to think about. Is it?. So not only do we have what some call sight appeal but it stands to reason we also have different quality from the name brand nib companies.

 

[Quality Pen]

Folks, let us all think of JoWo and Bock as General Motors. Both companies will make nibs in different grades or models if you will. General Motors today makes in their Chevrolet line up $65,000 Corvette Stingrays and Spark from $12,500 , both are Chevy's but are different grades of car. So it is with the major nib companies, they have grades also according to the specks the company who orders from them. I'm not saying that the Dayacom nib is not the same grade as the Conway Stewart nib also made by Jowo, but it gives us something to think about. Is it?. So not only do we have what some call sight appeal but it stands to reason we also have different quality from the name brand nib companies.

Absolutely!

Even when it comes to blanks (tru stone comes to mind) there is "a grade" and "b grade" so what do you do think any company with do with their inferior-but-sellable stuff? I would guess they sell it to the "kit" guys.

Either way, do you really want to spend your time explaining to your customer that "Oh yes this is a re branded nib"....? Pfft! Even I had a hard time swallowing that :biggrin:

All kidding aside, THANK you guys for doing this homework and bringing this to light! It does help to explain why I PERSONALLY have had good success with Dayacom nibs -- never gave one to a customer or as a gift though. They go in my hoard of "pen junk." :biggrin:

 

[edstreet]

The question does still remain. If dayacom makes a kits for say $6 then how is that possible to put a yowo nib on there that runs higher cost than that. The speculation is they have multiple sources for nibs but from the email replies (to multiple people mind you) From this I am going to ask for clarification for the lower end kits they have and also ask if they have other vendors than yowo.

One answer would be very clear, volume. Say they order in lots of 100,000 units the price would be much lower than if you ordered 1,000 units.

The other unanswered question that irks me is who makes their feeds? Feeds are unbranded, no name, no model number, no made in 'location' or the like.

 

[edstreet]

Some updates.


....

.... <confidential data removed> ....

o Can I get these without the Dayacom logo?
Re: Yes , we could supply nibs without Dayacom logo ,
• base on we do not have stock ,
• the delivery would be 2~3 months once you place order.
o Last thing - are the nibs that Dayacom sells Jowo Fountain nibs?
o Re: Yes , we sells JOWO Germany made Fountain Nibs.

.... <confidential info removed> ...

With Best Regards,
Carol Li / Secretary
DAYACOM INDUSTRIAL CO.,LTD.
DAYACOM INDUSTRIAL CO., LTD

 

[edstreet]

Here is a group shot of nibs. In this pile we have the following.
Bock,
Jowo,
Dayacom,
IPG
Heritance.

Can you tell me which one is which?