Hi all:
I would like to get into wood stabilization, and would like to know if any of you have any input as to materials to be used in the chamber. Polycarbonate vs. acrylic vs. tempered glass.
Specifically stated, there seems to be a disagreement on whether using any acrylic or polycarbonate in the chamber is a good or a bad idea. Some say it is OK, others say that it is not OK. One vendor (see below for details) told me that they sell chambers, each with a stainless steel pot, in 3 different models: one having an acrylic lid, one having a polycarbonate lid, and one having a glass lid. For use with cactus juice, gator venom, etc., the warranty is void if you use a pot with the acrylic or polycarbonate lids. They specifically stated that their customers have had issues with these. Only the glass lid is warranted for such use. They claim that even if the liquid does not come into contact with the lid, there are vapors that will. On the other hand, Curtis at Turntex (in his faqs section on his website) says that this simply does not happen. Just yesterday I had one of the head guys that sells Stickfast tell me that they are going to be introducing tempered glass lids on some or all of their chambers in the near future, because they have had problems with polycarbonate and acrylic.
So I thought I would ask all of you: do any of you have experience using an acrylic or polycarbonate chamber over a period of several years that can share your experience and opinions on this? Any failures, crazing or cracking, or other issues?
Also, have any of you had problems with your vacuum pump (some claim that the vapors will damage it over time).
I will post below some of the conversations and statements made by the actual vendors.
.....................................
Question to vendor:
What is the difference between glass vac and the other models? Is the lid glass and not acrylic? What happens to the other ones if used with cactus juice?
Answer:
Yes! That is exactly it. The GlassVac does have a glass lid, where as the BVV chambers have an acrylic lid, and the Shattervac chambers have a poly carbonate lid. If you use cactus juice with any of our chambers OTHER than the GlassVac chamber the lids will get spider cracks and deteriorate. Not to mention it will void your warranty.
Compatibility Explanation:
• BestValueVac® Chambers (these are made with an acrylic lid) are not compatible with stabilization resin (i.e. Cactus Juice™, Gator Venom™, Minwax™ etc.), alcohol, ethanol, acetone and acrylic based monomers or polymers.The lid may only be cleaned with soapy water.
• ShatterVac® chambers (made with a polycarbonate lid) are not compatible with stabilization resin (i.e. Cactus Juice™, Gator Venom™, Minwax™ etc.), acetone, acrylic based monomers or polymers. The lid may be cleaned with soapy water and low strength cleaning agents.
• GlassVac® chambers (tempered glass lid) are compatible with all solvents and stabilization resins. We only recommend and warranty GlassVac® chambers for resin infusion and wood stabilization. The lid may be cleaned with any solvent or cleaning agent.
Followup Question:
Do the polycarbonate and acrylic lids deteriorate even if the product (Cactus Juice) does not come in contact with the lid? The maker of Cactus Juice denies that there are any vapors, etc. coming off the product. Have you personally seen it happen contrary to what he says?
Also, if there are vapors, wouldn't this get past the glass lid and into the vacuum pump, ruining it over time?
Thanks for your help.
Answer:
That is not true, even with out coming into direct contact with the cactus juice it does still have vapors and they will deteriorate the acrylic and poly carbonate lids. I have seen this before and had angry customers because we will not warranty their products when they use cactus juice with the incorrect chamber lids.
From the FAQ on TurnTex website:
Can I use a Acrylic lid on my Chamber with Cactus juice or do I need to get a glass one?
Acrylic can indeed be used for a lid IF it is sufficiently thick enough. Cactus Juice, in direct contact with the acrylic for extended periods, can cause a slimy film to build up on the acrylic but you lid should not be in direct contact to begin with. Some chamber manufacturers claim that Cactus Juice will cause the lid to crack due to "fumes" but they do not understand the chemistry of Cactus Juice. There are no "fumes" from Cactus Juice, even under full vacuum. Most acrylic lid failures are caused by insufficient thickness of the acrylic.
Will cactus juice deteriorate the internal parts of a vacuum pump such as seals and plastic parts?
No! Cactus Juice is designed specifically for use under full vacuum. There is nothing in Cactus Juice that will "boil" or vaporize under full vacuum when using it below the use and storage temperature of 85° F. Cactus Juice can boil if the temperature of the resin is above 93° F which is outside the maximum use and storage temperate of 85° F to begin with. Also, a quality vacuum pump does not contain any rubber (or other material) seals that are in contact with the air stream and do not contain any plastic parts in the actual vacuum cartridge. Some of the cheap import pumps do but even then, Cactus Juice will have no effect on them unless you suck resin into the pump.
I would like to get into wood stabilization, and would like to know if any of you have any input as to materials to be used in the chamber. Polycarbonate vs. acrylic vs. tempered glass.
Specifically stated, there seems to be a disagreement on whether using any acrylic or polycarbonate in the chamber is a good or a bad idea. Some say it is OK, others say that it is not OK. One vendor (see below for details) told me that they sell chambers, each with a stainless steel pot, in 3 different models: one having an acrylic lid, one having a polycarbonate lid, and one having a glass lid. For use with cactus juice, gator venom, etc., the warranty is void if you use a pot with the acrylic or polycarbonate lids. They specifically stated that their customers have had issues with these. Only the glass lid is warranted for such use. They claim that even if the liquid does not come into contact with the lid, there are vapors that will. On the other hand, Curtis at Turntex (in his faqs section on his website) says that this simply does not happen. Just yesterday I had one of the head guys that sells Stickfast tell me that they are going to be introducing tempered glass lids on some or all of their chambers in the near future, because they have had problems with polycarbonate and acrylic.
So I thought I would ask all of you: do any of you have experience using an acrylic or polycarbonate chamber over a period of several years that can share your experience and opinions on this? Any failures, crazing or cracking, or other issues?
Also, have any of you had problems with your vacuum pump (some claim that the vapors will damage it over time).
I will post below some of the conversations and statements made by the actual vendors.
.....................................
Question to vendor:
What is the difference between glass vac and the other models? Is the lid glass and not acrylic? What happens to the other ones if used with cactus juice?
Answer:
Yes! That is exactly it. The GlassVac does have a glass lid, where as the BVV chambers have an acrylic lid, and the Shattervac chambers have a poly carbonate lid. If you use cactus juice with any of our chambers OTHER than the GlassVac chamber the lids will get spider cracks and deteriorate. Not to mention it will void your warranty.
Compatibility Explanation:
• BestValueVac® Chambers (these are made with an acrylic lid) are not compatible with stabilization resin (i.e. Cactus Juice™, Gator Venom™, Minwax™ etc.), alcohol, ethanol, acetone and acrylic based monomers or polymers.The lid may only be cleaned with soapy water.
• ShatterVac® chambers (made with a polycarbonate lid) are not compatible with stabilization resin (i.e. Cactus Juice™, Gator Venom™, Minwax™ etc.), acetone, acrylic based monomers or polymers. The lid may be cleaned with soapy water and low strength cleaning agents.
• GlassVac® chambers (tempered glass lid) are compatible with all solvents and stabilization resins. We only recommend and warranty GlassVac® chambers for resin infusion and wood stabilization. The lid may be cleaned with any solvent or cleaning agent.
Followup Question:
Do the polycarbonate and acrylic lids deteriorate even if the product (Cactus Juice) does not come in contact with the lid? The maker of Cactus Juice denies that there are any vapors, etc. coming off the product. Have you personally seen it happen contrary to what he says?
Also, if there are vapors, wouldn't this get past the glass lid and into the vacuum pump, ruining it over time?
Thanks for your help.
Answer:
That is not true, even with out coming into direct contact with the cactus juice it does still have vapors and they will deteriorate the acrylic and poly carbonate lids. I have seen this before and had angry customers because we will not warranty their products when they use cactus juice with the incorrect chamber lids.
From the FAQ on TurnTex website:
Can I use a Acrylic lid on my Chamber with Cactus juice or do I need to get a glass one?
Acrylic can indeed be used for a lid IF it is sufficiently thick enough. Cactus Juice, in direct contact with the acrylic for extended periods, can cause a slimy film to build up on the acrylic but you lid should not be in direct contact to begin with. Some chamber manufacturers claim that Cactus Juice will cause the lid to crack due to "fumes" but they do not understand the chemistry of Cactus Juice. There are no "fumes" from Cactus Juice, even under full vacuum. Most acrylic lid failures are caused by insufficient thickness of the acrylic.
Will cactus juice deteriorate the internal parts of a vacuum pump such as seals and plastic parts?
No! Cactus Juice is designed specifically for use under full vacuum. There is nothing in Cactus Juice that will "boil" or vaporize under full vacuum when using it below the use and storage temperature of 85° F. Cactus Juice can boil if the temperature of the resin is above 93° F which is outside the maximum use and storage temperate of 85° F to begin with. Also, a quality vacuum pump does not contain any rubber (or other material) seals that are in contact with the air stream and do not contain any plastic parts in the actual vacuum cartridge. Some of the cheap import pumps do but even then, Cactus Juice will have no effect on them unless you suck resin into the pump.
