Stabilizing System Recommendations

[Rolandranch]

I'm finally going to bite the bullet and buy myself a vacuum chamber and vacuum pump. The question is... which one?

I'm thinking about getting one of THESE SS chambers from Best Value Vacs. Specifically looking at these three: 1, 2, 3.

I like the idea of the side mount on these and also the 3 gal size. How do these chambers work for stabilizing? Any advice?

Secondly, what do you guys use for a vacuum pump? Curtis at TurnTex recommends this one. Does anybody else have any experience with this one or other recommendations?

I would rather go quality than budget since I'll be using it a lot probably for many years.

I appreciate any help, advice, or links to helpful posts.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I use a 2 1/2 gal. paint pot. My vacuum pump is a high end Gast. New they are expensive but I got mine from a distress sale for a low price. Check Harbor Freight. They have several vacuum pumps in different price ranges. What you get will depend on how much you plan to use it.

 

[lorbay]

Or you could get one of these from a member on here. https://www.turntex.com/product/cactus-juice-stabilizing-chambers

 

[Dehn0045]

I am low volume and only stabilize for personal use, but here are my thoughts:

Chamber - Of the 3 that you listed, I would get #3. Glass top is preferred as acrylic is not resistant to typical acrylic stabilizing resin ("like dissolves like"). PVC is resistant, but I have never seen clear sheet PVC, only clear pipe. Dimensions will depend on what you want to do. Due to foaming you need a bit of height above the resin, that is why I would choose the taller of the two. I would be putting a container inside the large chamber for about 15 pen blanks, not sure what your plan is. Clear PVC is pricey, but can be found on eBay, here is a pretty good video on a DIY option that is similar to the TurnTex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWz-kdzn6v8.

Vacuum Pump - I would just go with a cheap cheap cheap rotary vane pump. I have this one https://www.amazon.com/ZENY-Single-...d=1519658644&sr=8-4&keywords=vacuum+pump&th=1 and it works just fine. If I wreck it then I won't loose too much sleep over buying another one for $50. Wouldn't be able to say the same about a $300 one. If I was going to go quality, I would go with a used Welch Duoseal, you can find them for about $500 used, but they are like $2k new. They are more of a lab/industrial grade machine, versus the A/C system pumps.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Csteck00]

Hey Seth,

I spent a pretty good amount of time about year ago researching options for this same decision. I went with this pump (also quoted in an earlier reply): https://www.amazon.com/ZENY-Single-...d=1519658644&sr=8-4&keywords=vacuum+pump&th=1

I would definitely go with a chamber from Curtis at Turntex. I bought a 6 inch diameter 14 inch tall chamber. This allows me to do small batches laying blanks horizontal or large batches stacking the blanks vertical. Also you will not find the same level of customer service that you get form Curtis. I have used his cactus juice and many different wood types and have zero complaints....very easy to use.

Good Luck

Chris

 

[Rolandranch]

Thanks for all the tips so far. I am planning to use it mostly for knife scales and pen blanks. I want to be able to do large batches at once.

 

[TattooedTurner]

I started with a cheap pump and it didn't last long. I bought a Robinair and not only has it been faultless, it pulls a better vacuum too. Based on my experience, I'd say it's worth it to spend a few more bucks (ok, a lot more bucks) for a good pump that will last.

 

[Brotherdale]

Read the application data on the Best Value Vacs. I believe they state not for use with stabilizing resin.


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[Rolandranch]

I use a 2 1/2 gal. paint pot. My vacuum pump is a high end Gast. New they are expensive but I got mine from a distress sale for a low price. Check Harbor Freight. They have several vacuum pumps in different price ranges. What you get will depend on how much you plan to use it.

Thank you for your reply. I plan on using it a lot so I was thinking something more durable would be better. Still doing research...

Or you could get one of these from a member on here. https://www.turntex.com/product/cactus-juice-stabilizing-chambers

I'm still going back and forth between one of his chambers or a GlassVac one.

Hey Seth,

I spent a pretty good amount of time about year ago researching options for this same decision. I went with this pump (also quoted in an earlier reply): https://www.amazon.com/ZENY-Single-...d=1519658644&sr=8-4&keywords=vacuum+pump&th=1

I would definitely go with a chamber from Curtis at Turntex. I bought a 6 inch diameter 14 inch tall chamber. This allows me to do small batches laying blanks horizontal or large batches stacking the blanks vertical. Also you will not find the same level of customer service that you get form Curtis. I have used his cactus juice and many different wood types and have zero complaints....very easy to use.

Good Luck

Chris

I took another look at his chambers and am still considering them. They are more expensive but I think the thinner, taller dimensions are better for doing smaller batches as well as larger batches.

I am low volume and only stabilize for personal use, but here are my thoughts:

Chamber - Of the 3 that you listed, I would get #3. Glass top is preferred as acrylic is not resistant to typical acrylic stabilizing resin ("like dissolves like"). PVC is resistant, but I have never seen clear sheet PVC, only clear pipe. Dimensions will depend on what you want to do. Due to foaming you need a bit of height above the resin, that is why I would choose the taller of the two. I would be putting a container inside the large chamber for about 15 pen blanks, not sure what your plan is. Clear PVC is pricey, but can be found on eBay, here is a pretty good video on a DIY option that is similar to the TurnTex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWz-kdzn6v8.

Vacuum Pump - I would just go with a cheap cheap cheap rotary vane pump. I have this one https://www.amazon.com/ZENY-Single-...d=1519658644&sr=8-4&keywords=vacuum+pump&th=1 and it works just fine. If I wreck it then I won't loose too much sleep over buying another one for $50. Wouldn't be able to say the same about a $300 one. If I was going to go quality, I would go with a used Welch Duoseal, you can find them for about $500 used, but they are like $2k new. They are more of a lab/industrial grade machine, versus the A/C system pumps.

Just my 2 cents...

Thank you for your response.

How much extra room would you recommend at the top for foaming? I am now considering Curtis's chambers because I can buy them tall enough to stack 2 blanks vertically which I think would be nice because it allows the flexibility of doing smaller batches or larger batches. They are more expensive though. What do you think?

Thank you all for your time. I really appreciate the help.

 

[Dehn0045]

Read the application data on the Best Value Vacs. I believe they state not for use with stabilizing resin.


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It looks like the "GlassVac" is a new line (at least it's new to me), states it is compatible with stabilizing resin. That said, I think the side-tap for the fittings is not ideal, basically ensures that you will need to use a separate container inside the chamber. Lastly, I think that inspecting for bubbles etc. would be more difficult viewing only from the top.

 

[Dehn0045]

Doesn't need to be a lot of space, 3 inches is probably plenty. Just make sure you have a valve to throttle how much vacuum you are pulling early on. It only foams for a couple minutes. You can save a little on Curtis' by buying the essential components from him and doing the rest with "economy stuff", but you get what you pay for.

 

[upstatepano]

I purchased #3 and a 2 stage pump (Mastercool) from Best value vacs. Love it. The reason I purchased the wide pot instead of a tall tube, I never put the Cactus Juice directly in the pot. I use another plastic container for the juice and put that in the pot, no mess in the main pot. That way you can use various size containers depending on the size job you are going to do. So get a large pot and use another container in the main pot, just my 2¢ worth. The vac time will not increase very much because of the larger pot. With my pot I'm pulling at 29 in 2 or 3 minutes.
Someone mentioned that the pumps were not for resin use, if you read the information on the website you will see that Cactus Juice is excluded and is acceptable for the Best Value Vacs and pumps.
Hope this helps.
PS. if you are going to be using dyes, which you will, you don't want to put it in the main pot.

 

[southernclay]

Curtis is nothing short of amazing if you call him with questions. I've got an 18" chamber from him so I could go two blanks high and have more than enough room for bubbles. I've got the import Robinair. Both have been awesome.

 

[Brotherdale]

Read the application data on the Best Value Vacs. I believe they state not for use with stabilizing resin.





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It looks like the "GlassVac" is a new line (at least it's new to me), states it is compatible with stabilizing resin. That said, I think the side-tap for the fittings is not ideal, basically ensures that you will need to use a separate container inside the chamber. Lastly, I think that inspecting for bubbles etc. would be more difficult viewing only from the top.

I like the ability to set containers inside a larger vac chamber.
1, It saves a lot of time on cleaning.
2, I keep a few different Tupperware containers each with a different color that I just set down in the vac chamber.
3, Saves resin because your not having to wash it out.

Did I mention that you don't have to clean out the chamber. A big deal for me.
I have one of Curtis' older 9x9 square chambers.


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[MRDucks2]

A "never stabilized before" question. Is it necessary to see/watch the bubbles? Why couldn't you pull a vacuum on your pressure pot?


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[Dalecamino]

A "never stabilized before" question. Is it necessary to see/watch the bubbles? Why couldn't you pull a vacuum on your pressure pot?


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It IS necessary to watch the level of the bubbles as they rise. Otherwise you risk the liquid being pulled into the pump. Not good. The bubbles are controlled by the shut-off valve. This is usually only for the first few minutes.

 

[tomtedesco]

I also use a Robinair pump w/o any problems. Check local pawn shops, paid 45 dollars for mine.

 

[Dehn0045]

A "never stabilized before" question. Is it necessary to see

In addition, different materials will take different amounts of time to get full penetration of the stabilizing resin. Watching the bubbles tells you when to stop pulling vacuum. If you can't see what you're doing, you might end up running the vac pump longer than necessary, or stop too soon. Also, you might want to see if blanks have floated above the liquid level, or if too much resin has drawn down and you need to add more. I'm sure you can get good results without seeing what's going on, I just prefer monitoring in real time, seeing is believing.

 

[Rolandranch]

Here's another question: Can I stabilize thuya burl with Cactus Juice? Curtis says to avoid oily woods because it will react with the CJ. Is there a different stabilizing resin for oily woods? Has anybody tried stabilizing thuya burl before?

 

[Dehn0045]

I went on a long quest to try to stabilize some rosewood (never actually tried), the consensus was that the DIY stabilizing for oily woods is at best a waste of time and worst a waste of money (wood and resin). That said, professional shops say they can do it, so there is a way! I suspect that it involves vacuum drying, vacuum soak, and extreme high pressure soaks. But these guys don't really advertise their methods - go figure. It really isn't too expensive to get it done professionally, so unless you are going to make stabilizing a core business, I'd just let someone else do it. Again, just my 2 cents

 

[More4dan]

Here's another question: Can I stabilize thuya burl with Cactus Juice? Curtis says to avoid oily woods because it will react with the CJ. Is there a different stabilizing resin for oily woods? Has anybody tried stabilizing thuya burl before?

I didn't have good luck stabilizing thuya. When I baked it to dry it, I had a lot of oil seeping to the surface. I didn't get a good stabilization.


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[Brotherdale]

One more thing to think about for stabilizing. Toaster oven... I stared with the cheapest one I could find. I was constantly frustrated by it being so small and the crazy temperature swings. I recently spent $40 at Walmart for a much larger one with convection. Not only do I have much more room the temp is now rock steady.


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