Simlar41 vs alumilite

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Skeels

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So I got into casting cause it seems like the options are endless as far as patterns and what not. Before doin so I hit up youtube and noticed all of the "big name" casters on their were using alumilite. So naturally, I decided to go with that. Digging a little deeper about a year later, I read on here the price of silmar41... Wow... So for 33 bucks plus shipping I can get 32 ounces of alumilite clear and for about 5 bucks more I can get FOUR TIMES the amount for the silmar41. So the question is... What's the didference between the two turning wise. I could care less about the MSDS. I'more concerned in the turnability between the two. The alumilite I know turns very easy, sometimes a little too easy... What about the silmar41? Also I noticed it's a gallon with 2oz of catalyst... Is that really enough? Can I still usey pigment powders over a liquid dye? Help is much appreciated!
 
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Kenny Durrant

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They are two different products with different pros and cons. Silmar is more brittle and shrinks as it cures. Alumilite is more durable and doesn't shrink but doesn't like moisture. Silmar is a P.R. Resin that does well for snake skins but not filling voids in wood because of the shrinkage while Alumilite is the oppisite. That just scratches the surface but gives you an idea of the two.
 

budnder

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For me, Allumilte turns easier, won't break if you drop it, and is more forgiving when turning. It doesn't shine up quite as easy or nice as Simlar, but it's close. There's no stink with Allumilite, whereas I pretty much have to work outside if I'm doing Simlar. I use Allumilite for "worthless wood" type casting because it doesn't shrink like Simlar does. I have also used Allumilite for kitless pens because I can thread it, whereas I can't thread PR. I used PR when I got started because it was cheap and available, but have pretty much converted over to Allumilite, though I used Simlar for a couple of "clear castings" (e.g. stamps, flowers, etc) I did last month. I know PR is cheaper, but I don't value my pen hobby by how much I make or spend, so cost is less a factor for me.

Simlar is a polyester resin (e.g. PR, like Casting Craft), so if you rephrase your question slightly, "Poly Resin vs Allumilite" or "PR vs Allumilte" you'll have better luck finding past discussions. Allumilite is a Urethane resin, but there aren't very many (any?) of them, so I don't read people using the term UR or referring to Allumilite as a "class" of resin like the PR ones. Here's a good past discussion:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f43/alumilite-versus-poly-resin-4829/

And youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvQNK2RXd3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uam4g2RFeqc
 

Skeels

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Thanks guys. Roy, I read the link u posted and got a lot of info. I'm sure here's a lot more. Not gonna lie, commin from the world of firearms, or PR vs alumilite seems like the classic AK vs AR conversation lol. They both seem to have their pros and cons. I think what I'll just have to do is get some PR... I've cast and turned a bunch of alumilite and haven't had the chance to turn PR... Who knows, maybe I'll end up PR as my primary and them alumilite for some specialty stuff...
 

jttheclockman

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Yes there are pros and cons to each product. But I must warn you when you say PR there are different versions and they too have their own characteristics. Some of the links are very good read because this has been discussed before and there are quite a few more scattered throughout the forums here. The one thing that jumps out at me every time I read it from people is the fact they drop their blanks and it shatters. I tell you I have been casting for quite some time. I have dropped finished pens made from PR, dropped blanks made from PR and so forth and never ever ever ever have I had one break, chip, or fall apart. I believe these people use way too much catalyst that makes them brittle. I have started using Cast-N-Craft but very soon after I switched to Silmar41 and have never looked back. Good luck in your future casting adventures. :)
 

Chasper

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Nothing shines like Simlar41, alumilite and a good plastic polish makes a nice shine, but the polish wears off and months later the pen is dull. Similar41 is a pain to work with for blending colors, if you don't time it right you get muddled colors. Alumilite is quick and predictable setting and makes for amazing color blends.
I use Simlar41 and I catalyze it heavy because that makes it shine even more, even if that makes it hard to turn without chipping.
 

ToddS

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Going to bring this thread back to life. I just about posted the same question, polyester vs Alumilite, and I figured there would be a thread somewhere about. Thank goodness for the search feature.
 

stuckinohio

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Another thing that I have a problem with using silmar or anything that requires a catalyst is this:

I struggle with getting the right amount of catalyst for a proper or timely cure.

(No one else seems to suffer from this, or at least I don't see it mentioned much on here. Maybe I'm doing something totally wrong?)

Weather conditions wreak havoc and seem to seriously affect the required mixture. Sometimes I don't/can't wait for hours for something to cure.

Oh, and I feel like I'm in a meth lab or contagious disease chamber when I cast silmar... I can't imagine what the neighbors think when they see me in the garage with all the gear.

Now, for a positive factor that hasn't been mentioned. I think it is easier to cast multiple layers in separate pours with silmar. I don't have good luck with alumilite and separate pours unless you are OK with some color mixing and cast the second pour when the first pour hasn't quite set up. Again, this could be my error too. Sometimes the pours don't seem to bond or adhere well.
 

JohnU

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You don't want to use silmar poly resin if your in a hurry. I pour mine and walk a way for a day. The surface may still be tacky but the inside is hard. It has a great ability to adhere to itself so multiple pours are always fine. Color casts can be frustrating because the resin takes so long to cure compared to alumilite that you often lose the color separation and character you were looking for and get a new color or mixture from those being used. The catalyst supplied is more than enough. You will only want to use 3-4 drops per ounce of resin in your pours. Too much and it gets brittle and you risk the resin getting too hot in curing where it can crack before you denied. Too little and it comes out soft and sticky, But it's an easy fix in the toaster oven or sun light. I cast with both types because they each have their distinct uses and pros in casting. Good luck and I look forward to seeing some posts of your results.
 
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I've cast Silmar 41 but only turned Alumilite. To me, one is no better or worse to turn, but I prefer the deeper shine I get from Silmar. Alumilite just doesn't seem to polish up as well. I wear a respirator when I cast, outdoors or in my shed with the door open. I've never had a problem with too much or too little catalyst, but I live in AZ where it's usually warm and dry. I've got it down for how long to wait to mix colors by the feel of how thick the resin is when stirring. A few minutes during summer and as much as 10-15 minutes during "winter". Another advantage is you can get away without using a pressure pot or vacuum with S41. My vacuum pump died so I put the can of S41 in a bucket of warm water, and had no air pockets in the casts. In short, I prefer Silmar 41 solely because it produces a better shine, not requiring the expense of a pressure pot or vacuum is gravy, though I'd still recommend degassing it in vacuum at the very least. A pressure pot would probably guarantee no air bubbles but is likely overkill considering the expense of buying a compressor & pot. We all have our opinions when it comes to casting & resin choices though.
 

navyjoe

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I will add my $0.02 for what it is worth. I started with Casting Crafts from Michaels, upgraded to Silmar 41, and then tried Alumilite. I am now debating which to buy next so perhaps writing this will help.

Castin Craft is $35 for 32 oz. You also have to purchase the catalyzer separately for $14. You can always find a 40% off one item for Michael's, but for arguments sake lets keep the cost at retail. So about $50 for 32 oz of resin. At 2oz per pen that is 16 blanks or a little more than $3 per blank. Pros: Readily available, no shipping costs. Sets up well without a need for a pressure pot. Smooth turning, polishes above average. Cons: Worst smell of the 3. Needed respirator for days in the garage after I was done.

Silmar 41 is $35 for 128 oz, catalyst included. However, this is considered hazardous flammable material and can only be shipped via ground. It cost me $31 to ship using Composite Envisions. So $66 for 128 oz, cost per blank is a little more than $1 per blank. Pros: Works great, plenty of time to work with material. Pressure pot is optional, I have done with and without. I prefer a pressure pot because small bubbles will appear as you sand if you are not careful mixing colors. This was the main reason why I went to alumilite. I figured if I needed a pot anyway why not try it. Cons: Smell is bad, but not as bad as Castin Craft. Still recommend respirator while working, but only while in direct contact. Cons: Sounds stupid, but I hate the can it comes in. I cannot pour out of it without making a disaster of a mess. I started pouring from a can to a secondary container before pouring into a third mixing cup just to reduce the mess. It also sucks to pay half the price in shipping. As far as I know only two online retailers sell it so it is difficult to obtain. You have to mix colors gently to avoid introducing air bubbles, or invest in a pressure pot to collapse those bubbles. I do not know about the other options, but Silmar has a short shelf life. They advertise a 3 month window. What I have stored in the can seems to be holding up fine, but I put some in a secondary bottle to use to fill molds and that thickened up significantly over time.

Alumilite is difficult to price. I tried the 2lb (32oz) kit direct from the manufacturer. The next size up from alumilite is the 16lb version. You can find the 8lb version from TurnTex, and other retailers sell it as well. Shipping is reasonable since it isnt considered flammable. For arguments sake I will use what I purchased as the example knowing if you buy in larger quantity it will cost less. No catalyzer is needed, it is mixed half and half. So 32oz cost $44 or $2.75 per blank. Pros: Easy turning. I can furn and sand a pen in half the time using this over Silmar41. That could also be a con if you are not careful. I tend to turn Alumilite a little fat and sand down to final size because it is easier and I have more control over the final result. Cons: Short working time, although not as bad as you would believe. I screwed up half of my blanks when I first tried it because I didnt have a plan going into it. Making alumilite blanks is different than making PR and I wasnt ready for that. I Purchased the clear slow version which advertises a 12 min working time. That is from initial mix of the two parts to in the pressure pot. By the time I got the hang of it I ran out of Alumilite. Pros: Smooth turning and sanding. Cuts working time in half when making pens. Only option of the 3 for worthless wood casting. I have not advanced to this level of turning and casting yet so I cannot provide input, but if you want to go that route then disregard the other choices and start here and never look back. Cons: Pressure pot required, no exceptions. So if you go this route understand there is additional costs in setup. Higher level of knowledge needed for Alumilite. You dont necessarily need to be smarter, but you need to plan your process out in advance and work well under time constraints. With Silmar 41 you have all the time in the world to get colors correct before you add the catalyzer and mix for 15 min. Alumilite is different. You can either mix both part A and B together then add color, or add color to one side then mix (diluting your color). I like to swirl 2 or even 3 colors together when casting, and I found Alumilite challenging to pull off. Granted, I have limited experience and I am sure those who use Alumilite regularly can provide better advice on doing this than I, but for my first time I was overwhelmed.

Hope this helps. As for me, I think I am going to go back to Silmar 41 for a while. I like the worthless wood castings and want to try it out, but I am not ready yet for the added expense involved with stabilizing wood. Silmar 41 is the best cost option despite the added shipping and I get great results almost every time.
 

its_virgil

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Do a good turn daily!
Don

As far as I know only two online retailers sell it (silmar 41) so it is difficult to obtain.
 
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navyjoe

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Silmar 41 is $35 for 128 oz, catalyst included. However, this is considered hazardous flammable material and can only be shipped via ground. It cost me $31 to ship using Composite Envisions. So $66 for 128 oz, cost per blank is a little more than $1 per blank.

Quick update for those interested, I was able to get the same gallon and catalyzer from uscomposites.com for $55, arrived in two days.
 
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