Resinol 90C **Long, Sorry**

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mrplace

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OK, I have a lot of good information, and some bad, on Resinol 90C. First, I was miss quoted by a Rep who really did not want to do business with me. Second, Henkel Corporation, aka Loctite, is super secretive with this stuff and absolutely does not deal through distributing channels with this product.

Resinol is sold through the Automotive Division of Henkel, and other Reps from the MRO divisions etc., are not able to sell it. I was able to run a territory rep and speak briefly with him. He almost refused to give me information until I explained our process, practices and products. Then he emails me a truckload of documents to be sure they are not held liable for poor handling practices etc. Then in the same email he tells me I have to have a conference call with their sales and engineering reps to be sure this is the right product for our process (which I only vaguely mentioned to start with).

I finally got upset and emailed the rep and said fine, this product is more trouble than its worth, and it is obvious Henkel is not real interested in selling it.

Now the good news. After my last email, I was quoted a price more in line with our expectations. I was quoted $70 a gallon, with a 4 gallon minimum. Now, I still can not buy it though because I have not jumped through their hoops yet. So I call one of our other vendors/sub-contractors, and guess what, they can order this stuff for me. Not at $70 a gallon, but not that much worse and that cost includes delivery to me. So, Resinol 90C will cost $88.86 a gallon, or 355.44 for the four gallons.

If anyone wants to try and jump through the hoops to save $15 a gallon, I will post all the contact information for Henkle. but as it stands, I would rather deal with the people I know, and that are not near as big a pain in the @$$.

If someone wants to do the homework on container and shipping costs, I might be willing to run a group buy the first part of June, after I get moved in to the new house.
 
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ElMostro

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Yep, I know what you mean. I called and e-mailed Henkle when this thread first started and was passed from one rep to another [:(!]...nobody that I spoke with at Henkle would give me a straight answer; "not sure if we have it in stock, I do not access to pricing, another department handles Resinol...yada, yada, yada," [}:)] I almost felt I was buying illegal drugs on line so I gave up. Anyway, if you do a group buy I am in (maybe for a gallon). I have looked at PR and will test but am concerened about the fumes, I am running a test with Alumilite right now but am waiting on some answers to information I requested ....so I am looking for other options. [:(]

Eugene.
 

mrplace

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Eugene, I am not sure who you use for your resin supplier, but there are additives that can be put in the resin to adjust the viscosity. Talk to your rep, they are very helpful(unless they are Henkle Reps).
 
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Originally posted by mrplace
<br />Eugene, I am not sure who you use for your resin supplier, but there are additives that can be put in the resin to adjust the viscosity. Talk to your rep, they are very helpful(unless they are Henkle Reps).

There is an Alumilite employee/rep that has posted on these forums in the past... Perhaps Mesquite Man knows how to contact him...
 

MesquiteMan

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Eugene,

Something is wrong if you have not heard back from Mike at Alumilite yet. He is usually very customer oriented and quick to answer questions. Have you tried giving him a call? Send me your questions, I might be able to answer some of them.
 
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I've also been trying to find resources that could be used to further this effort with info and/or material.
If getting the Resinol is going to be that tough, there might be other avenues worth exploring. Resinol is but one monomer solution out of many that can be used to manufacture composite wood. According to a white paper I found that was penned in the late 70's by a sanctioned USG forestry scientist, the two major parent monomers used in the formation of composite woods are methyl methacrylate and styrene. Their is ample evidence that the styrene family of monomers, while excellent bases, are the most ofactory offensive. I surmise by this that Nelsonite must be made with this family of monomer. I've seen a few references in other forums and web sites that Nelsonite will "run" folks out of the shop due to it's very potent odor.
As far as methyl methacrylate (MM) is concerned, I used to use it in repairing rigid plastic products. We bought the resin from Urethane Supply Company. It has a strong odor as well, but when cured does dissipate very quickly.
We'd need a more purer stock than this, as the resin we used was doped to have bulk, to prevent sagging.
So far, Google has turned up Dupont and possibly Monsanto Corp. as suppliers of pure resin stock of MM.
However, I've run into a virtual plethora of MM mixtures sold by dozens of chemical and composite suppliers. We'd need much more research to find out which one would be applicable to our needs.
The nice thing about MM, is a low temperature catalyst can be added (140 - 150 deg F)to the mixture in the tank. This allows you to only catalyze what you are going to use per batch, and speed up production times without wasting product. We followed this process in our plastic repair and cure cycles could be reduced about 70%.
Anyway, more food for thought.

Lynn
 
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I got long in the tooth in the last post and forgot to mention another interesting tidbit.
It seems that MM, styrene and other plastics monomers are used extensively in the conservation industry. Museums, universities and private concerns have developed quite a few monomer/polymer concoctions that help them deal with preservation, conservation and restoration of a super wide range of artifacts from the Dead Sea Scrolls to the reconstruction of dinosaur bones. 90% of what I've read so far deal with plastics monomers of some sort to accomplish this.
This products will undoubtedly be much easier to obtain as a quick Google on conservation products will unearth a lot of research paths. If we could just find a plastics guru to help us understand what monomer families we should be researching!

Lynn
 
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Seems to me when the city was redoing all our sewers the stopgap was a company that pressurised a resin into our waste water pipes and then sucked the excess and had a hotwater truck pumping in hotwater to cure the material. I don't know what they used, at the time I was just ticked that it seemed that every road in our little town was torn up or about to be. I just asked what they were doing and got out of the way. Now it seems I should have asked more questions and been more observant.

Also if the yahoos running those 2 rigs can do chemical impregnating and thermosetting on sewer outflow pipes then we can probably do this same thing in our home shops.

mrplace, did the Loctite people mention the other Resinol products? I believe there is a RTC (room Temp Catalized) version unless I misread their data. Maybe that would be easier, for those of us that will take that leap, to use?

Resinol® RTC is the latest self-curing anaerobic sealant formulated with a unique proprietary surfactant monomer washable in plain water. High temperature resistance and extremely good chemical resistance make RTC a good choice for many users.
 

rkj155

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Just an ideas you might explore :-
Your local denturist (dental mechanic) makes his false teeth with a couple of types of Methyl Methacylate one is thermosetting and the other is anarobic (2 parts MM and a powder, most times this type is used for repairs). There is a place in Flordia that sells both types on e-bay, priced at about $20 a quart for the thermosetting type. I got some from my denture guy and he explaind how he makes false teeth basically he makes a mold pores in the mm puts it in a pressure chamber for a time then removes mold with the mm to a water chamber where he boils the mm for a couple of hours, thermosetting the mm and once the mold is removed he has his set of false teeth. He explains that if the temperature is lower 140 to 160 degrees is used it would take about 10 hours to thermoset the mm. I have not tried this yet but will be doing it soon.
Ron
 

mrplace

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Another alternative may be acryloid/paraloid. I am talking to some suppliers who supply archeologists for preserving artifacts. This comes in a grain or pellet form and dissolves in acetone or xylene. It cures clear and is UV resistant (I believe).

I am still trying to figure out how the commercial guys get so much density in to their wood. I make my plexi/acetone as thick as possible, and still do not get that kind of density.
 

Monty

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I haven't been following this thread very closely since I don't do my own casting and stabilization as of yet. However when I saw "Methyl Methacrylate" - DING - a bell went off in my head. This is something that is used for embedding tissue, something I've been doing for the last 30 years. I checked with one of my suppliers, Electron Microscopy Sciences, and they sell Methyl Methacrylate for $8.00 for 225ml, about a pint. I talked to the owner and she said they would sell to individuals. Here is a link to the page in their catalog that has the Methyl Methacrylate listed -
http://www.emsdiasum.com/microscopy/products/chemicals/hcl.aspx#18800
 

ElMostro

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Originally posted by MesquiteMan
<br />Eugene,

Something is wrong if you have not heard back from Mike at Alumilite yet. He is usually very customer oriented and quick to answer questions. Have you tried giving him a call? Send me your questions, I might be able to answer some of them.

Curtis,
Mike has been pretty good about answering my questions but I have asked a lot of them. Part of it was that I could not acess his site...I finally did and that helped but generated more questions. By the way I sent you an e-mail.
 
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Originally posted by Monty
<br />&lt;snip&gt; Electron Microscopy Sciences, and they sell Methyl Methacrylate for $8.00 for 225ml, about a pint.

Mannie,

How does the monomer you use cure? According to the catalog, it comes doped with the inhibitor (Hydroquinone). This is to aid in shelf life I assume. Is the mixture you use anarobic, heat or UV activated?

Lynn
 

AFTim

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I do not yet cast...however, I am a safety officer for a medium sized company in Ohio...GET THE Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) for anything you are using inside (even if you have ventialtion)...Please!!!
 

Monty

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Lynn, that's not the resin I personally use. Just remembered seeing it in the catalog and reading about it in the past.
Try emailing Stacie at sgkcck at aol dot com.
 

mrplace

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Got some more information today. Pemabond makes a comprable product to the Resinol. It is an acrylic product. I am waiting for the TDS and will post information when I get it.
 
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