No Bubbles casting

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its_virgil

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I am trying to change my casting routine. I've cast several label blanks and several more snake blanks without vacuum or pressure. So far it is working great. The labels don't surprise me since they have given me no problems at all. But, the snake skin blanks are bubble free and crystal clear. I'll try to post a picture of a snake pen tomorrow. I have 6 sets of blanks that were poured this evening with no pressure nor vacuum. More on these later...maybe tomorrow evening also. I'm excited. What a time saver this will be if the success continues.
Do a good turn daily!
don
 
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jleiwig

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I have seen plans for a mixer online that you can make that will supposedly not introduce bubbles into your resin. Fishing rod builders use something similar sold by flexcoat. Not sure if Don is using anything like this, but I was considering it once I get my casting area setup.
 

Kaspar

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Ahead of the curve. Waaay ahead.
Watching with great interest. I have some casting ideas of my own I'd like to try, but I'm very limited in my space and don't want to add a compressor and pressure pot to an small, already crowded area.
 

jleiwig

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actually it is a Pacific Bay-(Pac Bay) mixer about 17 RPM a metal cup which holds a plastic cup and a marble or steel ball it works quite well not perfect but better then mixing by hand at least rod building finishes
http://www.fishpacbay.com/products/rod-building/index.html

I have an article at home that details how to make your own, probably not any cheaper, but you would have to scale up the size anyway for pen casting.
 

wolftat

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its_virgil

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update

First: The blanks came out just as nice as any others I've done...no bubbles and crystal clear. I only make clear blanks with things embedded in clear poloyester resin such as snake skins, labels, feathers and various other things glued to the tubes. And, I only use polyester resin. The resin I am now using is the current brand that is being sold by Composites One in Ft. Worth Texas. The resin is what they have replaced the swing resin I was using which was made by Cook Composites and polymers. This new one is made by Reichhold and is 32030-10. It's working time is 14 to 18 minutes. That's all I know about it.

When I first started casting snake skins I was having excellent results then things started going south. I was getting all kinds of terrible results which have all been discussed in other threads by several members. This was back several years when very few of us were casting. I researched several casting forums and discovered vacuum and pressure and started using both and reporting the results. Success followed along with the bad castings I had been getting originally; just not as often. That made me think that maybe the pressure and vacuum were not really necessary. But, I kept using them. Then the ultrasonic cleaner was intorduced to us and I started using one and stored the vacuumpump. Then heated resin was shared and I started doing that also. I like the thinner resin. Now the currrent report.

Earlier this week Glenn McCullough posted a pen made with a stamp blank I cast for him. It can be seen here: http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=48775 That blank was cast without pressure and was cast in one of Newlondon88's resin saver molds. Later this week I made some snake skin blanks without pressure or vacuum using the resin saver molds and also using the molds made by gadget. All 8 sets came out flawless.

At the AAW symposium two weekends ago Barry Gross (http://www.bgartforms.com) did a demo on casting. I attended the demo and spent a lot of time with Barry over the weekend. I was thrilled to learn that he uses no vacuum or pressure and not even ultrasonics in his casting. Look at his website at some of his excellent work with casting. (I did get to see the watch parts pen in person...incredible) So I came home and did what Barry shared in the demo. Although, I still used the ultrasonic cleaner with hot water and the heater function turned on since I do like the thinner resin when pouring. Barry casts in two pours for each cast. I did not. I placed the prepped blanks in the mold and slowly poured the catalyzed resin over the blanks. After getting the molds close to being full, I used a small diameter aluminum wire and 'played" in the resin. I moved the resin around and made sure the skins were well saturated. If I saw a bubble I moved it to the surface. Several moved there on their own. I had another wire with a short piece bent so I could move it under the blank to dislodge any bubbles from underneath. I continued to gently manipulate the resin until it started to get thick. I then filled the molds to the top. I left them to cure and they came out great. Sure is easier than using the pressure pot. I wll continue to cast this way until things goes south again. I'm excited.

I use 3 drops of MEKP per ounce.

Ask questions and I will answer them.

Pictures tomorrow after it is too hot to work in the yard....the heat has been in the 110 range here in N tex and will be throughout the weekend. I know, Anthony says, 'Come on out to Pheonix".
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 

OKLAHOMAN

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Don, thanks this is something that I've done a few times with mixed results but did not "play" in the resin with a wire to move any bubbles to the top, makes a lot of sense. I'll do some casting tomorrow and try it. BTW I turned the snake blank you sent today along with one I had done with the swing we used to use, got it to ribbon and it polished great, can't tell any difference between the two after polishing.
 

its_virgil

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Thanks for that report. I like the new resin and really think is performs as well as the swing we were using. Now, if they don't change on us again.

Do a good turn daily!
Don

Don, thanks this is something that I've done a few times with mixed results but did not "play" in the resin with a wire to move any bubbles to the top, makes a lot of sense. I'll do some casting tomorrow and try it. BTW I turned the snake blank you sent today along with one I had done with the swing we used to use, got it to ribbon and it polished great, can't tell any difference between the two after polishing.
 

ldb2000

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I use a piece of string in the mold . I just slide the string back and forth under the blank to dislodge any bubbles from the blank then just pull the string out when it starts to gel .
 

its_virgil

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Kaspar,
I have used S41 but I;m now using the PR currently sold by Composites ONe in Ft. Worth texas. The resin is what they have replaced the swing resin I was using which was made by Cook Composites and polymers. This new one is made by Reichhold and is 32030-10. It's working time is 14 to 18 minutes. That's all I know about it. I would suspect S41 would perform equally as well. I can't tell the differences, if any. between the 4 PRs I've used.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
You use Silmar 41, correct?
 

Kaspar

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Sorry to make you say that again. It was late when I read your post and I didn't see where you explained that. I guess I was tired and in a hurry to read the part about the big secret. :redface:

Originally, I had no plans for doing any casting, but I found something I think would make an incredibly cool pen if I could bring it off. So, I started to explore the subject here at the board.

I had suspected that the way to avoid bubbles was to not put them in there in the first place, and that the main culprits would be cavitation during mixing and casting "organics" with many seams where air could hide. As to the former, the pressure pot thing seemed unnecessary to me, if one merely avoided cavitation during mixing. But since I haven't done any casting, I deferred to the near unanimous judgement of those who had, and there was still the problem of air pockets in an "organic" casting like snakeskin. It looked like casting was going to take more room, money, and time than I have.

So thanks for a confirmed way of doing without all that. I'll try to make it work.
 
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its_virgil

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Sorry for the delay but I was sidetraced over the weekend. Here are some pictures I promised. I'll try to get a snakeskin turned and post a picture in a day or two. Thanks for looking and commenting.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 

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S.A.Mappin

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First of all Virgil, I'd like to say I personally appreciate all your testing and posting that you've done. It makes a tremendous difference to those of us who are just starting the casting process, like myself.

My question is: what do you do to prep your snakeskin blanks before you cast them?
I don't get the privilege of catching and skinning my own snakes, so I am at the mercy of who I'm buying them off of.
I get skinned and dried.... skinned dried and tanned...etc...

Gluing them to the tube and sealing the cork ends I've got. What do you do to the skin? 2 nights ago I took 2 pairs of snakeskin that were already tubed, I "painted" one pair with poly resin, no catalyst, and the other pair I painted the poly resin with the catalyst. They then sat for 24 hours until they were dry. Right now I have them sitting in a mold, waiting to harden.

I'm patiently waiting the results........

By the way... nice pics.
 

its_virgil

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I don't catch my own snakes either. I purchase skins already soft tanned. I bought several skins over a year ago when my source was going out of the snake tanning business. I'm using those skins lbut I must start looking for a new source. So, I don't prep raw skins. Some tanning processes uses chemicals that cause the skins to turn very dark when the PR is introduced. All I know about the tanning process used to tan the skins I use is that the mix is half rubbing alcholo and half glycerin. I do clean the skins after I glue them to the tubes. The scales are removed from the skin with a stiff brush.

What do I do to the skins? I paint them with raw polyresin as I place them in the mold...a good soaking. The theory beign the PR soaks into the skin and displaces any air that is in the skin. I leave the skins to soak for about 10-15 minutes before I pour the catalyzed resin into the mold.

If you read my snake blank article and remove the parts about pressure and vacuum and add what I've mentioned here and in this thread, then you know how I've cast the last few batches. Reply back if you need more questions answered.

Good luck with your casting.

Do a good turn daily!
Don


My question is: what do you do to prep your snakeskin blanks before you cast them?I don't get the privilege of catching and skinning my own snakes, so I am at the mercy of who I'm buying them off of.
I get skinned and dried.... skinned dried and tanned...etc...

Gluing them to the tube and sealing the cork ends I've got. What do you do to the skin? 2 nights ago I took 2 pairs of snakeskin that were already tubed, I "painted" one pair with poly resin, no catalyst, and the other pair I painted the poly resin with the catalyst. They then sat for 24 hours until they were dry. Right now I have them sitting in a mold, waiting to harden.

I'm patiently waiting the results........

By the way... nice pics.
 

S.A.Mappin

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Thanks Virgil.

I don't tend to remove the scales, but I will for now on. So far I pulled the mold, and the skins are looking clear. I think it makes a big difference to soak the skins after you tube them with some of the pr before you actually pour the pr into the mold with the snakeskin in the mold. I imagine it helps the pr to get in between all the nooks and crevices and eliminating spaces where air may get trapped.

If you wouldn't mind, would you please post your findings after you've turned a couple pens from your recent batch of snakeskin? I may take that route once I know it works well.
I agree with you on at least one thing..... it seems once you think you have a great thing working, a variable changes and there you are!!!!:eek:

Thanks again!!!
 

DurocShark

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I've done similar things when I cast stuff in resin. I add whatever it is (ie: coffee beans) to the uncured resin, mix well, then put in the us cleaner. After that I add a bit more resin and catalyst.

I've done that with pr and alumilite with good results.
 

wood-of-1kind

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Don, I was encouraged by your post to try to cast without a PP and this is what came out. Surpringly no air bubbles!!!! I still will keep my PP to do my grooved/slotted wood and PR combo pens. The high pressure from the PP helps the resin to seat in the slotted grooves. Guess I will continue to use both methods (w and w/o PP).
 

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OKLAHOMAN

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Ok now along comes Peter with a hint of something we or maybe just me haven't seen yet.:eek: What is that in the center of the blank Peter, inquiring minds want, no need to know.:confused:.

Don, I was encouraged by your post to try to cast without a PP and this is what came out. Surpringly no air bubbles!!!! I still will keep my PP to do my grooved/slotted wood and PR combo pens. The high pressure from the PP helps the resin to seat in the slotted grooves. Guess I will continue to use both methods (w and w/o PP).
 

wood-of-1kind

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Ok now along comes Peter with a hint of something we or maybe just me haven't seen yet.:eek: What is that in the center of the blank Peter, inquiring minds want, no need to know.:confused:.

Sorry to post so late Roy. The centre is aluminm. Turns like butter when carved with a SKOGGER. This was my first taste of turning metal and now I'm hooked. It's getting bad for me: I started with wood (exclusively), tried and like PR and now comes steel. This addiction is killing me. So many materials to turn and yet so little time.
 
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pianomanpj

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Sorry to post so late Roy. The centre is aluminun. Turns like butter when carved with a SKOGGER. This was my first taste of turning metal and now I'm hooked. It's getting bad for me: I started with wood (exclusively), tried and like PR and now comes steel. This addiction is killing me. So many materials to turn and yet so little time.

Peter, you're killing us!! What is that extruded shape called? Where can we find it? I'll give you a shiny, new nickel if you tell me... :wink:
 

NewLondon88

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I've been doing some runs of both PR and Alumilite with no pressure pot after
reading here.
I'm using my own molds (shameless plug: ResinSaver Molds) so the tubes are
already in the mold before I pour. I did some clear and some with solid colors,
then a few with powdered metal in them. (See page 19 on Skiprat's website
gallery) and they have all come out fine.

I'm warming the resins to about 105-110 degrees (lukewarm) without mixing
parts together. No A+B for Alumilite, no catalyst for PR.

When the resins are warm, the viscosity is lower ,the resin pours more like
water and you could whip are into it and the bubbles will easily rise to the top
before the resin sets.

A warning on Alumilite, though .. warm resin sets quicker.. and the Alumilite
can set while you're pouring .. It will stop pouring mid-stream. Kinda funny,
but not really. It's expensive.

For that reason, I'm mixing the dyes before Part B goes in. Even though Curtis
recommends mixing the two parts first so you can see it mixing thoroughly, the
extra thin resin mixes much more easily. And I use a larger popsicle stick to give
it more motion. As I said, any bubbles clear easily from the thinner resin.

Thanks, Don!
 

S.A.Mappin

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To clarify something Virgil... your're warming up the pr resin first, then adding the catalyst?

Or just warming it up, and not putting any catalyst in at all, and it's curing that way?

Thanks for the info, it saves me some mistakes.... and money:biggrin:!!

Thanks again Don.
 
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S.A.Mappin

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One more question Don, does the distributor there in Texas sell the PR in 1 gallon containers? The distributor here in Lawrenceville, GA sells it, but the smallest amount is 5 gallons.
 

jleiwig

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One more question Don, does the distributor there in Texas sell the PR in 1 gallon containers? The distributor here in Lawrenceville, GA sells it, but the smallest amount is 5 gallons.

This is really a distributor problem I see with Composites one. The local distributor here does not sell in anything less than 55 gallon containers. Of course it's their perogative, but I'm not a composites fabrication shop.
 

NewLondon88

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This is really a distributor problem I see with Composites one. The local distributor here does not sell in anything less than 55 gallon containers. Of course it's their perogative, but I'm not a composites fabrication shop.

I find the same thing here.. they just don't want to bother with us. Seems
like someone could put a few bucks up front to get a barrel, service the
local customers and do OK with it. Of course, once someone sees you
filling that need, they may decide to jump back in.. and how much resin
could you sell locally anyway?
 
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OKLAHOMAN

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This is really a distributor problem I see with Composites one. The local distributor here does not sell in anything less than 55 gallon containers. Of course it's their perogative, but I'm not a composites fabrication shop.

One more question Don, does the distributor there in Texas sell the PR in 1 gallon containers? The distributor here in Lawrenceville, GA sells it, but the smallest amount is 5 gallons.

I'll jump in and answer for Don on this as I think he's still out west fly fishing.
Our local dist. that Don and I use also only sells in 5 Gal containers and actually sells by the pound, you pay what a five gal. container weighs. DAMW
 
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