My new HF pressure pot just blew and almost killed me!

[phillywood]

ok, Just a thought, does anyone here have any disabilty insurance? Messing around these kind of stuff is not fun and youdon't want to get hurt and put the family out. And, amybe we outta think of getting somekind of group liabilty policy for these accidents.
The bottom line is I'll br darn to read that some one here got hur from this cheapo pot or any of the tools that hav ebeen reported not safe to use by our members. Remeber the honeis marry us to take care of them not the other way around, not for doing non sense acts. Amen!

 

[bruce119]

ok, Just a thought, does anyone here have any disabilty insurance? Messing around these kind of stuff is not fun and youdon't want to get hurt and put the family out. And, amybe we outta think of getting somekind of group liabilty policy for these accidents.
The bottom line is I'll br darn to read that some one here got hur from this cheapo pot or any of the tools that hav ebeen reported not safe to use by our members. Remeber the honeis marry us to take care of them not the other way around, not for doing non sense acts. Amen!

Just use some common sense. Hopefully any one that picks up a tool knows how to use it properly or should at the very least realize the risk and take measures. Research the tool know the hazards wood turning can be very dangerous it demands respect we should all know that and take precautions. Anyone here shouldn't need to be reminded of that or you will learn it real fast the hard fast way. That is why we post our misshapes to help others avoid it and learn.

Stuff still happens.

Think safe, work safe, respect ALL tools and hopefully you will stay safe.

 

[Laurenr]

Just a quick addendum to our conversation. In the process of shopping for pressure pots I have found out that DeVilbiss and Binks are the same company now.

Interesting huh?

 

[johnnycnc]

Glad you are not hurt. It could have been worse, as you know.
Take care in resetting up!

 

[MesquiteMan]

Just a quick addendum to our conversation. In the process of shopping for pressure pots I have found out that DeVilbiss and Binks are the same company now.

Interesting huh?

You didn't read my reply to one of your other posts on pressure pots, did you?:biggrin:

Binks and DeVilbiss are both owned by ITW who also makes DuoFast and Paslode air nailers, among many other very fine, professional grade tools. I own 3 different Paslode cordless nailers and about 1/2 dozen DuoFast nailers in various configurations. DuoFast is the go to gun for most professional carpenters.

 

[Laurenr]

Ok, so I didn't hang on every word. I will read more carefully in the future.:wink:

 

[PenMan1]

Devilbiss is one of the few remaining, if not the only, American manufacturer of Pneumatic power tools left. When the tools trucks pull up in the boat yard with a good deal on power air tools, we all flip the box over to look for "Jackson, TN". Devilbiss makes air tools under a gazillion names (a few being Snap On, Blue Point and Campbell Hausfield). We have found that all the tools made in Jackson are "right as rain" regardless of the name on them. Whereas some of the tools with familiar names made elsewhere, are junk.

 

[Monty]

So what if you modify the pot and it blows up and you get hurt. You can still sue and win. Look at how many millions the guy got when he got hurt with the Ryobi table saw even though the guard was removed and he was not safely using it in a safe manor .:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Robert A.]

I read in an earler post that the seal may not have been seated.Makes ALOT of sense too me.WE have all heard it in nascar"a $2.00 part cost us the race".In this case it could very weel be YOUR life!

Everyone has talked about "THE POT".Has anyone thought that it could have been the bolt had streched in the clamps.

In my opinon when the pot was modified you were on your own. Just glad no one got hurt.But standing over anything that you are presurizing????I'll stop there

 

[DCBluesman]

We throw these psi numbers around like most of us understand them. It is important to note that 58 psi pressing against an 8 inch dimater lid is exerting 8 tons of pressure which is released alsmost instantaneously upon failure. These pots needs to be enclosed such that failures do not release potentially destructive (or fatal) projectiles. And, to tell the truth, 58 psi should not be needed when casting polyester resin.

 

[TomW]

We throw these psi numbers around like most of us understand them. It is important to note that 58 psi pressing against an 8 inch dimater lid is exerting 8 tons of pressure which is released alsmost instantaneously upon failure. These pots needs to be enclosed such that failures do not release potentially destructive (or fatal) projectiles. And, to tell the truth, 58 psi should not be needed when casting polyester resin.

8" lid has about 50.25 square inches surface area. 58 pounds per square inch gives about 2914 pounds force or 1.5 tons. Still a lot of force.

Tom

 

[DurocShark]

Didn't someone here make a box or a cage for their pots? I seem to recall a post but can't find it.

A cage is used when mounting big high pressure tires, why not for a high pressure casting pot?

 

[truckfixr]

Andy Little asked for pics of my home built pot, and after looking at them recommended that I post them here.

I know that the accepted practice among most members of this forum is that home built pressure pots are taboo. For the most part, I would agree. However, if the properly designed and quality materials are used, no HF or Binks pot can match the capability of a home/shop built pot. The cost to build a quality pot is comparable to that of a HF pot.


Not much to look at, but it does the job quite well:

 

[PenMan1]

8 inch oil well casing, 3/8 plate steel lid, welded, secured with grade 8 bolts, O-ring seal! My caliper says this one is a little more substantial the the paint pot! I don't think my little 175 psi compressor could make this one go boom!

I'm certainly NOT advocating building your own pot (unless you know how and have access to adequate materials), but I really want paint pot modifiers to see the difference.

This thing may be more substantial that that liitle cap BP put in the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico!

 

[B727phixer]

So one person has a mishap and everyone starts returning or trashing their Harbor Freight pressure pots?

I've been reading about these things here for over three years now and never heard of a mishap except from Curtis who modified his clamps so we don't know what the real cause of his failure was.

That's not a bad record considering the hundreds of members using these posts on a regular basis casting their blanks.

I've used mine dozens of times between 65 - 70 psi without mishap as have hundreds of others, and am not going to stop because a member who has used his three times and admits..."I did some modifications...mostly I put a brass valve on the input so I could disconnect my air compressor when I was done".

Paladin, I'd like to know what other modifications you did, perhaps one of those was the culprit.

+1:biggrinthats for you George)

 

[gketell]

Umm, mine says 80 psi right on the lid. Where are you getting these numbers from?

I will say, however, that based on this thread I am now on the lookout for a Binks.

GK

The recommended working pressure is 40 PSI , rated max pressure is 50 PSI . You guys are just asking for trouble by not using as intended . For casting PR no more then 25 PSI is needed even alumilite don't recommend the pressures you guys are using them at and why they feel that the pots they sell can be safely used .

 

[ldb2000]

Umm, mine says 80 psi right on the lid. Where are you getting these numbers from?

I will say, however, that based on this thread I am now on the lookout for a Binks.

GK

Mine is stamped 50 psi max and in the instruction sheet that came with it , it says max working pressure 40 psi and max pressure 50 psi . It seems that HF has used different suppliers of these pots and each has had it's own ratings .
I still have no problem with using it if I had to since I never used it with more the 25 to 30 psi anyway . I mainly cast in PR and don't use a pressure pot anymore . I don't do any WW and have found a way of getting bubble free casting (even clear) without it , in PR any way .
If and when I do any Alumilite I will follow their instructions on pressure . Their pressure pot also has a max pressure of 50 psi and their instructions call for a working pressure of 35 to 40 psi .
I personally think that using any of the pressure pots at some of the pressures that I have heard some use is dangerous but it is their choice and if they want to take those chances so be it . High pressure is very dangerous !!! I worked in a gas station when I was younger and the air compressor tank let go one day , it took out one whole corner of a cinder block building . This was a tank that was routinely used at 125 psi and I do believe those tanks are rated for several hundred psi . All it takes is one microscopic flaw in the materials during the manufacturing process and after repeated cycling even a certified tank can let go . At least it's nice to know your loved ones can sue the certification company .

 

[gmreeves]

I've only been making pens for about 5 months now and have read on numerous occasions on this very message board of HF paint pot failures. I'm sure I could go back and search if I was really interested but I'm not in the market for one and have read the warnings.

 

[its_virgil]

Hello. My name is Don Ward and I'm a recovering pressure pot user. I once only cast PR using both vacuum and pressure. Now I use neither with excellent results. I've switched to much safer ultrasonics.

Seriously, I have a HF post that is 5 years old. Stamped on the lid is 80 psi. I came to realize that only 20-25 psi is needed for casting PR. More pressure does not add any benefits for what the pressure doing. I have not used it in two years now.

Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[witz1976]

Hello. My name is Don Ward and I'm a recovering pressure pot user.

Hi Don:biggrin:

 

[MesquiteMan]

More pressure does not add any benefits for what the pressure doing.

Don,

I think you are referring to doing regular straight resin but just to clarify, more pressure DEFINITELY helps when doing Worthless Wood with Alumilite. I have tested all different pressures and found that more pressure certainly helps get the resin deeper into the smallest of cracks. Heck, if I could afford the right equipment, I would cast Worthless Wood at 200psi.

 

[DurocShark]

Hello. My name is Don Ward and I'm a recovering pressure pot user. I once only cast PR using both vacuum and pressure. Now I use neither with excellent results. I've switched to much safer ultrasonics.

Seriously, I have a HF post that is 5 years old. Stamped on the lid is 80 psi. I came to realize that only 20-25 psi is needed for casting PR. More pressure does not add any benefits for what the pressure doing. I have not used it in two years now.

Do a good turn daily!
Don

Hi Don, it's Don.

I think to help your recovery along you should send me your pot. :tongue:


I've never used one, and would like to play a bit. I never have any money when they're on sale, and they're never on sale when I have some money. It's a conspiracy I tells ya!

 

[Constant Laubscher]

I have no problem building my own pressure vessels but am I a little more on the safe side because I am using hydraulic pressure and therefore it would not explode.
The last one I have build myself for testing small quantities of wood easily goes up to 3000 psi but I would be reluctantly do that with air pressure. When I test the vessel I would test it at double the required working pressure for an extended period of time. The pump I am using for testing can go to a maximum of 100000 psi( hundred thousand) hydraulic pressure. It pumps only 2 - 4 gpm at that pressure.
What I am trying to say here is that you can build your own equipment if you have the right equipment/tools and knowledge.

 

[its_virgil]

Curtis,
Yep, straight regular clear casting of snake skins and computer labels with polyester resin. That's the only casting I do.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Don,

I think you are referring to doing regular straight resin but just to clarify, more pressure DEFINITELY helps when doing Worthless Wood with Alumilite. I have tested all different pressures and found that more pressure certainly helps get the resin deeper into the smallest of cracks. Heck, if I could afford the right equipment, I would cast Worthless Wood at 200psi.

 

[cozee]

What I am trying to say here is that you can build your own equipment if you have the right equipment/tools and knowledge.

AMEN!!!

(emphasis in quote is mine)

 

[John Merc]

Same thing just happened to me!!!!

Paladin- I'm not in the same boat as you- third time using the HF pot and boom!!! I replaced the gauge that came with the pot and it was only reading ~45-50psi (rated for 80 max). The lid now looks like a oval. Lucky for me I was on the other side of the room and no damage to me or the house. I should have saved the $80 and bought something good.

Glad you were not hurt. BTW- what pot did you decide to get?

 

[Donna]

It's been two years, but I'm still bitter about the pot I received from Alumilite. I purposely did not buy the Harbor Freight pot due to quality concerns. I purchased a pot from Alumilite and the photo on their website of what I was purchasing was different from the pot I received. But, I trusted that they would not send out dangerous equipment (even though it looked identical to the Harbor Freight pot). I used that pot three times, never putting pressure higher than 30... and the lid would shift on me under pressure. I was done with it at that point. I complained to Alumilite and was told by Carol there that they would REPLACE it. I didn't want their replacement. I got nothing from them and was out quite a bit of $. I've since bought a Casting Pot from this link http://www.finishsystems.com/resincastingpressurepots.html
I am very happy with it and have used it many times.

 

[bobindayton]

A nearly empty pot will have more force when it explodes that a nearly full pot. An extra safety step would be to add wood or something into the pot to limit the air space that is being compressed. When testing a tank it is typically filled with water and then pressurized so that is something does rupture there is not the force behind it.

 

[snyiper]

A nearly empty pot will have more force when it explodes that a nearly full pot. An extra safety step would be to add wood or something into the pot to limit the air space that is being compressed. When testing a tank it is typically filled with water and then pressurized so that is something does rupture there is not the force behind it.

Would this not only add projectiles from the pot if it indeed did go? That would be kind of like playing Russian Roulette with a pipe bomb!!! I think Pressure is Pressure and wood being a bunch of tiny straws would not cut the volume of air that much but 58# is 58# no matter how much is in it.

 

[sbell111]

... I replaced the gauge that came with the pot and it was only reading ~45-50psi (rated for 80 max). The lid now looks like a oval.

Sounds like the new gauge that you put on it was bad and/or the pot clamps were improperly torqued.

I also verify my pressure both on the guage at the pot and the one over at the compressor, just to be reasonably sure that I'm not overpressurizing.

... I used that pot three times, never putting pressure higher than 30... and the lid would shift on me under pressure.

I can't imagine how a lid could 'shift' at 30 psi if the clamps were properly secured.

 

[Timbo]

A nearly empty pot will have more force when it explodes that a nearly full pot. An extra safety step would be to add wood or something into the pot to limit the air space that is being compressed. When testing a tank it is typically filled with water and then pressurized so that is something does rupture there is not the force behind it.

Would this not only add projectiles from the pot if it indeed did go? That would be kind of like playing Russian Roulette with a pipe bomb!!! I think Pressure is Pressure and wood being a bunch of tiny straws would not cut the volume of air that much but 58# is 58# no matter how much is in it.

No...his theory is basically correct. I use to work in a chemical process lab for 15 years where we routinely used pressure bombs (yes...they were called bombs), rated as high at 15K PSI. It's not just the pressure that contributes to the danger, the expansive force of the material under pressure is a much bigger contributer. That's why the danger is reduced when using hydraulic pressure. Unlike air, liquids (or solids) change very little in volume when put under pressure...therefore, if pressure is suddenly released there is very little expansive force to propel anything away from the pressure vessel. So taking up some of the pressure pot volume with non-compressible material makes sense because it reduces the amount of compressible air. However, I'm in agreement that most woods is not make a good choice. I would choose a material that was not porous, thus eliminating even more air.

Food for thought related to safety:

• The pressure bombs we used were tested at 3X the rated working pressure by the manufacturer. I doubt that's the case for the HF or any low cost pressure pot.
• Even if we were running an experiment at 200 PSI in a pressure vessel rated at 5000 PSI, the experiment had to be run in a separate bomb proof room.

Well..this was fun...but I gotta go finish turning a pen for a customer. Be careful out there guys and gals.

Tim

 

[sbell111]

A nearly empty pot will have more force when it explodes that a nearly full pot. An extra safety step would be to add wood or something into the pot to limit the air space that is being compressed. When testing a tank it is typically filled with water and then pressurized so that is something does rupture there is not the force behind it.

Would this not only add projectiles from the pot if it indeed did go? That would be kind of like playing Russian Roulette with a pipe bomb!!! I think Pressure is Pressure and wood being a bunch of tiny straws would not cut the volume of air that much but 58# is 58# no matter how much is in it.

Volume is a big part of how dangerous one of these would be if it failed. Remember, the volume of air in the pot is the thing that 'explodes'. To borrow your analogy, a pot filled with just air is like a pipe bomb with one pound of C4. A pot filled almost completely with some dense material is like a pipe bomb made out of a cheapo black cat firecracker.

 

[Hess]

glad you are OK

With that let me say I have used a HF pot for is true intended propose
to paint I have what they consider HP but it clearly state no more than 45 lbs

my Bink's I use for top coats will take what ever I give it it seem. but that is the same with any knock of tool

My Stata top coat guns run 500 each I use the cheap eq where looks don't matter

HF is what it is the tools they make we buy because we don't want to pay the extreme high cost of the big companies like Brinks Stata and DV if you push these tools it should be on something that does not matter but never our live or kids

guess what Im trying to say is we all trend to abuse tools, pump the pressure up and get upset when it does not hold, use a tool for a hammer and wonder why it don't work the next time we want to remove a bolt.

We blame it on the tool of China

Sadly we as a nation have pushed the $$ limit to the max on most everything we can now we have to pay thought the nose to take a crap.

China is improving and making some very good stuff that we could not get close too. don't beat me here I don't like it ether.

my dad worked all his life with tools back when our now GOOD tools were not so good. He always told me that if you make you money using hand tools buy the best you can. when I painted when younger it was hard but I had at least one of the beast guns and slowing added

I use HF ans places like Grizzly which are most like 100% china most of our lathes come from china just have a different name. I just don't work those tools as hard and they last and last ens of my rant

I will say I have many CraveWrights back when they were coming out one threw a bit out that stuck in a stud inch from my GD head at 2k a piece I had to keep using them. 3 years latter they are very dependable made by LHR in TX out of China the same city that made my Jets

 

[Donna]

Steve,
The clamps were applied correctly.

 

[bruce119]

... I replaced the gauge that came with the pot and it was only reading ~45-50psi (rated for 80 max). The lid now looks like a oval.

Sounds like the new gauge that you put on it was bad and/or the pot clamps were improperly torqued.

I also verify my pressure both on the guage at the pot and the one over at the compressor, just to be reasonably sure that I'm not overpressurizing.

... I used that pot three times, never putting pressure higher than 30... and the lid would shift on me under pressure.

I can't imagine how a lid could 'shift' at 30 psi if the clamps were properly secured.

First if handeled properly these should be safe. The older ones had a lip on the lid lid that held a little better. The newer ones I am sure to tighten the clamp down good. Just be sure to keep an eye on the welds on the clamps after about a couple hunderd cycles I noticed the welds cracking time to retire the pot.

Another thing very important. I found with the new style pots that people complained they leaked and the lid failures. You need to seat the seal the first time on the lid tighten down the clamps and pressurize in a safe manner. You attach your air and from a safe distance pressurize to about 60 psi or you mite hear a pop at a lower pressure that is the seal seating kind of seating a tire when it pops or you reach 60psi your done. There are times I use 60psi for like shredded money and worthless wood cast were higher pressure is needed. Other stuff like snake skins or my steampunk I only go to 25psi.

I think a lot of people don't realize a get in trouble the very first time they use there pot just because the seal was not seated.

.

 

[DurocShark]

I seated my seal the first time using lithium grease. Clamp, unclamp, clamp, unclamp. Then wipe the grease off and clamp and do a test fill. Worked perfectly.

 

[mrclean08]

I'm interested in getting a pot. The design of the HF pot and the Binks pot looks the same. (Primarily the latch design.) I notice that the CA Technologies pot's latches look more secure. Just curious as to what makes the Binks pot the safest to use? Is it primarily because it is made of steel vs aluminum?

 

[Phunky_2003]

I'm interested in getting a pot. The design of the HF pot and the Binks pot looks the same. (Primarily the latch design.) I notice that the CA Technologies pot's latches look more secure. Just curious as to what makes the Binks pot the safest to use? Is it primarily because it is made of steel vs aluminum?

I believe the HF pot is steel, I can't verify that because I don't have one. I've seen one at the Ark/La/Tex meeting but didn't pay much attention to it. I use a binks pot. I did a casting demo and believe Don Barfield brought the pot. Mines a little too heavy to be toted around.

I do know from working with both the binks is much heavier. Of course i only moved the lid while doing the demo. I don't do worthless wood casting so my binks doesn't go above 20 to 30 psi.

I don't really have an opinion on the HF pots due to only using the pot one time. It would seem to me that if used properly it should be safe. From what I read there are quite a few who don't properly seat the seal, which needs to be done no matter what pot is used. Inspection and safety precautions need to be followed no matter what tool your working with.

 

[MesquiteMan]

I'm interested in getting a pot. The design of the HF pot and the Binks pot looks the same. (Primarily the latch design.) I notice that the CA Technologies pot's latches look more secure. Just curious as to what makes the Binks pot the safest to use? Is it primarily because it is made of steel vs aluminum?

The HF pot is a Chinese clone of the Binks pot. The latch is not the issue, it is the cheap, thin steel. And yes, the HF pot is made from steel, not aluminum. The Binks pot is ASME certified to 80 psi. This means that each pot is individually tested and certified. Both of my pots have certifications stamps on them with unique serial numbers. Does this really matter? To me, it provides peace of mind. Also, the Binks pot is made from much heavier steel than the HF pot. When I first got my Binks, I weighed the lid and it weighs more than the entire HF pot! Also, it is made in the USA.

The CA Tech pot is also a really good pot. I was planning to buy 2 of them after my HF explosions but the dealer I dealt with made me a deal on my Binks that I just could not refuse. The CA Tech pot is also made in the US. It is not ASME certified, however.

 

[jeff]

I presume these are not ASME code-stamped pots? If that's correct, and there is any concern about material integrity or workmanship, a hydro test to 1-1/2 times the design pressure might be a reasonable idea before putting it into service. That doesn't eliminate problems with the clamping process every time you use it, but it could expose bad welds, poor machining, or material problems.