?HF venturi pump

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Kemosabe62

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Dec 8, 2005
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Laurel, MS, USA.
I'm getting ready to purchase the items to do casting and stabilization. I already have an air compressor. But which venturi pump do I need from HF? There is #1 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3952 and #2 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92475. From what I've researched, I really don't need a high dollar vacuum pump. Am I wrong? What I plan on casting initially is snake skin blanks and making my own cabochons out of hat/lapel pens for bottle stoppers.
 
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cozee

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Oct 4, 2005
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Sadorus, IL.
Same pump. Different color cases and one is sold as a pump and the other as a pump for R134A. Even the tool trucks have 'em but Snappy wants about 4-5 times more!! I have a HF unit I use for stablizing. I can pull and hold around 28" with no problems using a well sealed system.
 

Alumilite

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Oct 16, 2006
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Location
Kalamazoo, MI, USA.
We did not had very consistant results with the venturi style pump. We use to sell them but they just never seemed to work for people. We have a 25 hp compressor that supplies our entire shop and we use to run 120 psi thru our venturi pump to a small vacuum chamber. We were able to eventually get up close to 28" of Hg in vacuum which was barely enough to effectively degas our Water Clear and would not degas our mold making rubber very well at all. The trick was to use a small vacuum chamber that did not have the large volume of our larger chambers we use for our silicone mold making rubber and flexible casting urethanes.

Most people ran into problems or should I say less than satisfactory results because they didn't have a large enough compressor nor did they have a small enough chamber (which would pull down the vacuum faster and require less time to effectively degas the materials). We sold them as a low cost alternative to degassing (deairing) silicones and urethanes for casting and eventually stopped distributing them due to the fact that they were not an effective means for 90% of the people that wanted to try them giving them false hope that they could use a cheaper device. After a lot of unhappy customers, we had to stop offering them.

This is just our experience with the HiVac venturi pump we use to distribute years ago. I also have no experience or history trying to use them with PR. Our experience has always been hitting that magic 29" of Hg makes everything happen. We also use to distribute a Granger 5 cfm pump for about $500 before the internet made sourcing them so much easier. Now we just recommend the 6 cfm pump from Robinair (15600) found on tooltopias website. I think it is $252 delivered. It works well if you the $ to invest in it.

Mike
Alumilite
800 447-9344
 

ElMostro

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Mar 17, 2007
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San Antonio, TX.
Question for Mike (Alumilite). The Robinair 15600 do I have to run it until the casting is complete or does it stop once the pot reaches the pressure? Hmm...I guess that will depend on how well the pot can hold the seal...?
 

Mikey

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Nov 3, 2005
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Cleveland, OH, USA.
Alumilite, no offence and I hope you can help me out, but how in the world do you expect the majority of poeple in America to get anywhere near 29" of vacuum? 30" is perfect vacuum at sea level and from there the amount of vacuum one can pull becomes less. In fact, I don't know how in the world that you could even get 29" of vacuum in Michigan. I have a robinair vacuum pump and I am able to get to maybe 26" or 27" but that is it.
 

Alumilite

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Oct 16, 2006
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43
Location
Kalamazoo, MI, USA.
ElMostro, in our application, we typically run the pump for a minute to a minute and a half. This is the approx time required to pull the vacuum down to 29" of Hg and degas the material (allow it to rise and then collapse on its own). We typically don't degas very long. Once you've removed the air from the material, we remove it from the vacuum chamber and pour perfectly bubble free material into the mold or mold box. However if we did wish to leave it under 29" of Hg for an extended period of time, you can turn the pump off and it does hold the vacuum in there. Once in awhile you will have a chamber that will slowly let air back in and it will eventually lose vacuum but if you have a good seal around your chamber it should hold your vacuum in there no problem with the pump off.

Mikey, good questions. To be honest I had to make a phone call to get a little help with it. In Kalamazoo, MI we are approximately 700'-800' above sea level. With any 5 or 6 cfm pump we have used here, we have always been able to reach 29" of Hg and even 29.5" per the gauge. I have heard of some people claim that due to their altitude they could not reach 29" of Hg simply due to there not being enough air to pull that much vacuum. So after reading your questions, I picked up the phone and called a long time customer and excellent mold maker in Colorado (elevation of where he is at is 5,280' above sea level). After I asked him the question of how much vacuum he is able to pull with his vacuum pump (same pump as Robinair but has a Procraft label on it), he said hold on because he was mixing a cup of HS II right then (moldmaking rubber - thick pancake batter consistancy material that traps a ton of air). I heard him turn on his vacuum pump which sounded exactly like the Robinair and he reached 24" of Hg. He said he normally leaves it in there for about 2 minutes in which time the material rises and collapses and is fully deaired. That was amazing to me because if I were to stop my vacuum chamber at 24" of Hg and hold it there, my HS II would never degas in 45 minutes (maybe even in the full amount of time the material sets - 1.5 hours) let alone 2 minutes.

So you are correct when stating that many people might not be able to pull 29" of Hg. However, the vacuum those pumps pull at those elevations seems to be equivalent due to the amount of air each of the pumps are able to pull down (less air at 5,280' than 750'). So in otherwords, my customers 24" of Hg at 5,280' might be equivalent to my 29" of Hg at 750' above sea level. I will investigate this more and see if I can verify these assumptions from my conversation with my customer with someone who knows the physics behind it.

Mike
Alumilite
800 447-9344
 
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